10 days.....

[ralph1950]

Until the beginning of the journey to the 2013 World Series Championship for the Cincinnati Reds.

 

[westsidecat]

so it looks like chapman will be the closer. sure would like to see what he can do as a starter, but nice to know the game is over when he comes in.

 

[JumpinJack5]

so it looks like chapman will be the closer. sure would like to see what he can do as a starter, but nice to know the game is over when he comes in.

I agree, let Chappy start. We are paying him so much to just close, let him become a pitcher, not a thrower.

 

[mplebanon]

I agree, let Chappy start. We are paying him so much to just close, let him become a pitcher, not a thrower.

I never understand the "we're paying him too much to close" statement.

We paid Cordero $12M per season for like 5 years. Chapman's contract averages out to like $4M per season.

 

[JumpinJack5]

I never understand the "we're paying him too much to close" statement.

We paid Cordero $12M per season for like 5 years. Chapman's contract averages out to like $4M per season.

Cordero was overpaid, let Hoover close, that kid is great, but Crusty would never give him an opportunity to succeed.

 

[david aka the TYZ]

I never understand the "we're paying him too much to close" statement.

We paid Cordero $12M per season for like 5 years. Chapman's contract averages out to like $4M per season.

Completely agree and have made this argument to multiple people. The money a closer makes in the free agent market is equivalent to a 2nd or 3rd starter. Besides the money is already spent, lets use him to the best of his abilities. We will never be an effective starter. Once players time his pitches he becomes ineffective. Facing a guy 3 times a game allows that to happen.

 

[JumpinJack5]

Completely agree and have made this argument to multiple people. The money a closer makes in the free agent market is equivalent to a 2nd or 3rd starter. Besides the money is already spent, lets use him to the best of his abilities. We will never be an effective starter. Once players time his pitches he becomes ineffective. Facing a guy 3 times a game allows that to happen.

Anybody can be a closer. Haven't you ever watched Moneyball? There was a study done by the guy who predicted all the electoral votes and percentages in the election this year and he found this with relievers-on average, their eras rise 1 whole point when converted to a starter. So he concluded that if said reliever had an era below 3.50, he should move to a starter, and if it is above this mark, they should be a reliever. There is so much more value in him becoming a starter-he will learn to use his other pitches, learn to hit the corners, to speed up and speed down his fastball. Hoover is cheap and fits the role of closer much better. If Chapman ever wants to learn how to be a pitcher, he would be a starter. If he wanted to be a thrower, he should be the closer.

 

[david aka the TYZ]

Anybody can be a closer. Haven't you ever watched Moneyball? There was a study done by the guy who predicted all the electoral votes and percentages in the election this year and he found this with relievers-on average, their eras rise 1 whole point when converted to a starter. So he concluded that if said reliever had an era below 3.50, he should move to a starter, and if it is above this mark, they should be a reliever. There is so much more value in him becoming a starter-he will learn to use his other pitches, learn to hit the corners, to speed up and speed down his fastball. Hoover is cheap and fits the role of closer much better. If Chapman ever wants to learn how to be a pitcher, he would be a starter. If he wanted to be a thrower, he should be the closer.

I disagree that anybody can be a closer. Closing is the mentally toughest thing to do in baseball, that's why so many guys choke at it. I'm a numbers guy, so I can agree that on paper he could be a good starter. I think under different circumstances I wouldn't mind given him the option to start. But this team was very good last year and there's no reason to tweak that for no reason. Leake can be an effective fifth starter and with Chapman closing you can keep Marshall and Broxton as set up guys for a killer 7,8,9. It worked, so why mess with it. There's a chance Chapman's arm wears out as a starter and I still think that once batters get his timing down, he will be much less effective. I keep hearing he has more pitches and if that's the case he needs to use them now. He has a nasty fastball with no movement on it and a nasty slider that he can't throw for strikes. By all means use the other pitches if they are in his arsenal. The problem is he isn't comfortable throwing them. We need to win now, why put a project out there in the five slot or use him in AAA while he learns and make this team less talented. We have a championship caliber team and messing with it just doesn't make sense to me on the chance he could be a good starter.

 

[Scheids21]

I disagree that anybody can be a closer. Closing is the mentally toughest thing to do in baseball, that's why so many guys choke at it. I'm a numbers guy, so I can agree that on paper he could be a good starter. I think under different circumstances I wouldn't mind given him the option to start. But this team was very good last year and there's no reason to tweak that for no reason. Leake can be an effective fifth starter and with Chapman closing you can keep Marshall and Broxton as set up guys for a killer 7,8,9. It worked, so why mess with it. There's a chance Chapman's arm wears out as a starter and I still think that once batters get his timing down, he will be much less effective. I keep hearing he has more pitches and if that's the case he needs to use them now. He has a nasty fastball with no movement on it and a nasty slider that he can't throw for strikes. By all means use the other pitches if they are in his arsenal. The problem is he isn't comfortable throwing them. We need to win now, why put a project out there in the five slot or use him in AAA while he learns and make this team less talented. We have a championship caliber team and messing with it just doesn't make sense to me on the chance he could be a good starter.

Agree with everything you said. I was in the boat that wanted to give it a try, but I think a lot of that was thinking how great our rotation could be and I think this will be our last year of Bronson. As time has gone on though, I am just fine with him closing because, as you said, we are in a win now situation and it is not worth messing with. Also, I think it is very important that Chapman WANTS to close. There is a big difference between coming in for one inning with the crowd screaming for you and sustaining adrenaline for 6 innings. I expect another dynamite season out of him in the 9th.

 

[ralph1950]

The weather forecast for opening day is not good.

 

[Bearcat04]

The weather forecast for opening day is not good.

So it's similar to chances that Dusty actually wins a playoff series? It's bad enough that the guy can't manage with the lead in a series, but then he has to go and sabotage the future of our highest upside pitcher. It's a shame they brought him back. He's great for 162, but he's a complete disaster when it counts the most.

 

[david aka the TYZ]

So it's similar to chances that Dusty actually wins a playoff series? It's bad enough that the guy can't manage with the lead in a series, but then he has to go and sabotage the future of our highest upside pitcher. It's a shame they brought him back. He's great for 162, but he's a complete disaster when it counts the most.

Dusty has won playoff series in the past. In fact he's been as far as game 7 of the world series as a manager. He got a medium talented team on paper to win 97 games last year. Who are you going to hire that would do such a better job? They lost a tough series last year where their ace went down in the first inning of the first game and they had to scramble to use their rotation effectively. Bailey pitched a gem game three but no run support, Latos got shelled game five and the comeback fell short. What manager changes these things?

 

[Bearcat04]

Dusty has won playoff series in the past. In fact he's been as far as game 7 of the world series as a manager. He got a medium talented team on paper to win 97 games last year. Who are you going to hire that would do such a better job? They lost a tough series last year where their ace went down in the first inning of the first game and they had to scramble to use their rotation effectively. Bailey pitched a gem game three but no run support, Latos got shelled game five and the comeback fell short. What manager changes these things?

Since taking a 3-2 series lead in the 2002 World Series here's what Dusty's teams have done in the last 10 games with a series lead:

1-9

2002 WS - Up 3-2, lost next two
2003 NLDS - Up 2-1, lost game 4 and won game 5
2003 NLCS - Up 3-1, lost three straight
2012 NLDS - Up 2-0, lost 3 straight at home

Pathetic!

 

[david aka the TYZ]

Since taking a 3-2 series lead in the 2002 World Series here's what Dusty's teams have done in the last 10 games with a series lead:

1-9

2002 WS - Up 3-2, lost next two
2003 NLDS - Up 2-1, lost game 4 and won game 5
2003 NLCS - Up 3-1, lost three straight
2012 NLDS - Up 2-0, lost 3 straight at home

Pathetic!

So who you hiring that would do a better job with this team?

 

[JackBauer151]

I think Jim Riggleman would do a damn good job. Did a great job with the Nats and would still be there if his contract didnt get in the way.

 

[Bearcat04]

So who you hiring that would do a better job with this team?

For the regular season it's hard to do any better than Dusty. I'll give him full credit there. It's in the playoffs where I'd take any bench coach over him. He manages playoff games like a getaway day in June making sure everyone stays fresh, while managers like Bochy throw caution to the wind and ride their best players.