On Second thought (Expansion)

BearcatTalk

Help Support BearcatTalk:

Thegreatone

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 2, 2010
Messages
3,187
I was on board with making this a 12 team league previously but now I am starting to think maybe 8 - 10 teams would be better.

If you get Boise for football only and Air Force for football only that is a clear upgrade from our current (Pitt and Cuse) format.

I would be very hesitent to add UCF/ECU/Houston because of the perception. I think those schools could really sky rocket if given the resources but the Big East can't try to think for 5 years from now. We need to think for the immediate 2 years.

Make expansion about getting the most quality programs you can get.
 
I was on board with making this a 12 team league previously but now I am starting to think maybe 8 - 10 teams would be better.

If you get Boise for football only and Air Force for football only that is a clear upgrade from our current (Pitt and Cuse) format.

I would be very hesitent to add UCF/ECU/Houston because of the perception. I think those schools could really sky rocket if given the resources but the Big East can't try to think for 5 years from now. We need to think for the immediate 2 years.

Make expansion about getting the most quality programs you can get.

The Big East wants to keep the conference at 16 for basketball and, unfortunately, you have to think ahead as UConn, Rutgers, etc. may want to leave some time in the future. That is why UCF, Temple, ECU, etc. should be added now.
 
I was on board with making this a 12 team league previously but now I am starting to think maybe 8 - 10 teams would be better.

If you get Boise for football only and Air Force for football only that is a clear upgrade from our current (Pitt and Cuse) format.

I would be very hesitent to add UCF/ECU/Houston because of the perception. I think those schools could really sky rocket if given the resources but the Big East can't try to think for 5 years from now. We need to think for the immediate 2 years.

Make expansion about getting the most quality programs you can get.

I really don't see Boise joining the Big East. I just don't think it makes sense for them. There is no need for them to travel out east 4 times a year, when all they have to do now is beat 1 or 2 good teams and they are in a BCS bowl. I'm not saying they won't join a BCS league eventually, I just don't think it would be an east coast league.

However, I think Houston would be the best get from UCF/ECU/Houston category.
 
I really don't see Boise joining the Big East. I just don't think it makes sense for them. There is no need for them to travel out east 4 times a year, when all they have to do now is beat 1 or 2 good teams and they are in a BCS bowl. I'm not saying they won't join a BCS league eventually, I just don't think it would be an east coast league.

However, I think Houston would be the best get from UCF/ECU/Houston category.

Fair points. Good post.
 
How about this conference..

East--------------West
UL/WVU**--------AFA*
Cincinnati---------Boise St.*
UConn------------BYU*
Rutgers-----------Houston
USF--------------UCF
Navy*------------SMU
 
I just read this article and if you haven't read it yet, please do. It explains a lot and is really well done. Ralph may actually be right (don't get cocky, Ralph! :D) on the lawsuit aspect of the Big East potentially losing it's AQ status but it wouldn't be Congress starting it. It would be the Big East and they would be targeting ESPN. Very, very interesting. Here it is:


As the Big East attempts to stave off one raid after another, struggles to hold together a fractious lot of current members who are looking elsewhere, and battles to preserve its status as the sixth major football conference in America, much discussion has centered on the likelihood that a Big East devoid of Pitt and Syracuse may lose its automatic bid to the BCS. Presently the Big East has an automatic bid through the end of the 2013 season and right now the Big East along with the SEC, the ACC, the Pac 12, the Big 12, and the Big Ten all receive automatic bids to the big bowl bonanza for their conference champions. The rules have been this way since the formation of the BCS.

If the BCS acted to strip the Big East's automatic bid this would be the first retraction of an automatic bid in BCS history.

I hinted at this in Friday's column, but the BCS stripping the Big East's automatic bid is highly unlikely. Why? There are for two primary reasons that I'll unpack in the coming column: 1. the Big East would have a whopping insider lawsuit against the BCS that could spell antitrust doom for the cartel and 2. Boston College's athletic director told the Boston Globe that ESPN encouraged it to take Pittsburgh and Syracuse from the Big East.

The end result is that the Big East, even in its weakened state, isn't likely to lose its BCS bid. If the league isn't likely to lose its BCS bid then that's a powerful incentive it can dangle to other schools, in non-BCS leagues, to bring them on board as new members. Effectively, then, the BCS bid is a Big East safety net, the net that keeps the conference from plunging into national irrelevance.

How do we know this?

First, the BCS does not spell out criteria for leagues to be stripped of an automatic bid.

That's one of the biggest criticisms that non-BCS leagues have laid out against the BCS's existence -- that it's an impermissible anti-trust violation because it's an arbitrary agreement between six members to exclude everyone else. How, the non-BCS schools squeal, can there be automatic bids given out when there is no criteria to define why the six conferences were initially included?

Indeed, the only requirement for a BCS bid is that a league have at least eight members. (That's an FBS rule, by the way, not a BCS rule. A league also has two years to rectify any slippage in that regard). Right now the Big East is guaranteed eight members through the 2013 season since the league has said it will not allow Pitt or Syracuse to join the ACC until 2014. So there's no way that automatic bid is going anywhere for the 2012 and 2013 seasons. What's the criteria for your conference to be included in the BCS if you aren't already receiving an automatic bid? It's complicated and virtually impossible for a new conference to reach:

You can read those criteria here.

So what happens if the BCS threatens to pull the Big East's automatic bid?

If I'm the Big East I threaten to file a lawsuit and tell all. Since there are no established criteria for pulling a league's BCS bid, the Big East should view any attempt to take away its bid as impermissible. The primary value of Big East football right now is that BCS bid. If it vanishes then why would anyone want to be in the Big East? So the automatic bid is a definite property interest that is being relied upon by the league. Any rescission of that right is tantamount to collegiate sports war. If there is no established process to take away a right, how can that right be taken away?

Given all the antitrust scrutiny that the BCS is already under, can you imagine what a lawsuit's discovery and depositions would look like if the BCS attempted to pull the Big East's bid? The Big East was there at inception, it knows all the gritty details about how the six conferences came to power and what agreements existed between them to keep the vast majority of the bowl bonanza in their hands. Put simply, the BCS turns on one of its original six members at its own peril.

Do you think it's a coincidence that the Big East managed to keep its automatic bid despite losing Virginia Tech, Boston College, and Miami to the ACC? That poaching drove the conference down to eight weak members after reformation but it didn't hurt the Big East's automatic bid. The Big East remained at eight until the ACC came by again and took another bite out of the Big East to drive it down to six members. Once more the Big East will have to add new schools since eight schools is the minimum number of teams to be considered a conference under NCAA rules.

Once the Big East solidifies eight members, voila, the bid will still be there.

But that's not the only reason the Big East will retain its automatic bid.

This year the Big East also has an additional trump card -- ESPN's alleged role in ACC expansion.

This weekend an ACC expansion story you need to read came out.

(You lazy slackers didn't read it, did you?)

This was the money quote:

"The overwhelming force behind the move, (Boston College AD) DeFilippo insisted, was television money.

The ACC just signed a new deal with ESPN that will increase the revenue for each school to approximately $13 million. With the addition of Pittsburgh and Syracuse, said DeFilippo, another significant increase will come.

“We always keep our television partners close to us,’’ he said. “You don’t get extra money for basketball. It’s 85 percent football money. TV - ESPN - is the one who told us what to do. This was football; it had nothing to do with basketball.’"

ESPN has since denied its involvement in the ACC's decision to raid the Big East, but why would DeFilippo lie to the Boston Globe about ESPN's influence? Keep in mind that ESPN has an inherent conflict here since it has a television contract with both the Big East and the ACC. Encouraging the members of one conference to join another with the dangling benefit of an increased payout isn't just business as usual, it's a breach of ESPN's fiduciary duties to the Big East.

So while ESPN denies the Boston College AD's story, would ESPN executives maintain those denials under oath in the event of a lawsuit? Would other ACC luminaries who would also be deposed back up DeFilippo or would they deny ESPN's involvement as well? DeFilippo's comments offer more than enough smoke for a dangerous lawsuit to be filed by the Big East against ESPN and the BCS. The ESPN lawsuit could feature hundreds of millions of dollars in potential damages.

Indeed, this is a lawsuit that could break ESPN and the BCS. (I can't even begin to tell you how massive of a story this quote on ESPN's role is. It goes to the very heart of the ESPN conflict I've been telling you guys about since this whole mess took off two months ago. If you didn't read this column back in August, you need to read it now: ESPN is conflicted beyond belief).

Why does ESPN matter when it comes to the Big East's automatic bid?

Guess who has the current BCS television contract?

Yep, ESPN.

You think ESPN might be willing to guarantee the Big East's BCS bid going forward if the conference threatens to file a lawsuit against the TV network for violating ESPN's contractual obligations with the Big East? If I was the Big East commissioner I'd be floating this through back channels right now. Give me the okay on our automatic BCS bid or we'll spend more time letting lawyers unpack your role in ACC expansion. (And I'd also add that the Big East is welcome to leak those depositions to OKTC).

The Big East is keeping its bid, you can take that to the proverbial bank.

Once the Big East gets back to eight teams -- the league has even suggested it may go to 12 teams, presumably to stave off the potential loss of West Virginia or Louisville to the Big 12 -- then the Big East will retain its automatic BCS bid.

Fans and media will ask how in the world this happened, but OKTC readers will just nod their heads.

The Big East, weakest major conference in America, is still strong enough to survive because its got the lawsuit goods on the BCS and ESPN.

http://outkickthecoverage.com/big-east-unlikely-to-lose-bcs-bid.php
 
The Big East wants to keep the conference at 16 for basketball and, unfortunately, you have to think ahead as UConn, Rutgers, etc. may want to leave some time in the future. That is why UCF, Temple, ECU, etc. should be added now.

On that I agree with you. But I'd find someone bsides ECU.
 
"I just read this article and if you haven't read it yet, please do. It explains a lot and is really well done. Ralph may actually be right"

The Ralph has always been a beacon of enlightenment.
 
"I just read this article and if you haven't read it yet, please do. It explains a lot and is really well done. Ralph may actually be right"

The Ralph has always been a beacon of enlightenment.

Of course Ralph leaves out the "don't get cocky, Ralph" part. Go figure. BTW, you have been wrong plenty enough. Just wanted to throw that out there too.
 
I really don't see Boise joining the Big East. I just don't think it makes sense for them. There is no need for them to travel out east 4 times a year, when all they have to do now is beat 1 or 2 good teams and they are in a BCS bowl. I'm not saying they won't join a BCS league eventually, I just don't think it would be an east coast league.

However, I think Houston would be the best get from UCF/ECU/Houston category.

The Big East is the only conference that would accept Boise State. The Big 12 won't, the PAC-12 won't get within 100 feet of Boise and of course the Academic Snobs B1G and ACC would never take them. That leaves the Big East as the only option. I think they will eventually have to take a bid, but for now it makes no sense because they are basically a shoo in for the BCS every year...
 
The Big East Conference is looking to expand in the latest round of conference realignment and it appears the league may look to Conference USA for some of its new members.

A person familiar with the conference's expansion discussions said that several C-USA schools are being considered as targets for the Big East including the University of Houston, SMU and Central Florida.

"UH is absolutely in the mix," the person said on condition of anonymity. "SMU is in the mix. Air Force is definitely in the mix.There's a lot of people that like Central Florida."

On Monday, Big East commissioner John Marinatto issued a statement on Monday after a conference call with the league's presidents on realignment issues, indicating that the league could expand to as many as a dozen football schools.

"On a teleconference earlier today, our Presidents and Chancellors authorized the Big East conference to engage in formal discussions with additional institutions and are considering moving to a model that includes 12 football playing schools," Marinatto said in the statement.

UH officials were unavailable for comment.

According to the person with knowledge of the Big East's discussions, Houston is attractive to the conference for several reasons: recent football success, attendance at home games in recent years and the aggressive fundraising that the athletic department has done in an effort to upgrade athletic facilities.

UH has raised $60 million towards a new football stadium, which is projected to cost $120 million and would be built on the site that Robertson Stadium currently sits. The stadium would initially be able to seat 40,000 and would be expandable to 50,000 in a future construction phase. There are also plans for a $40 million renovation of the school's basketball arena, Hofheinz Pavilion, after the football stadium is addressed.

"People see UH as having turned the corner a little bit," the person said.

Recruiting is also a positive for UH. Having games in Houston, which is a fertile area for high school football talent, would be attractive to Big East schools, the person said.

The Big East, which has lost Pittsburgh and Syracuse to the Atlantic Coast Conference effective in 2014 and TCU- which was to join next year- to the Big 12 on Monday, is looking to add members to better its chance at keeping its BCS status. The Boston Globe reported on Monday that Marinatto and other representatives have contacted C-USA commissioner Britton Banowsky to indicate its interest in Central Florida.

The person with knowledge of the Big East's discussions said it's difficult to put a timetable on when the Big East will extend invitations but that it's moving "fairly quickly."

http://www.chron.com/sports/cougars/article/UH-in-the-Big-East-Conference-mix-2212241.php
 
The Big East is the only conference that would accept Boise State. The Big 12 won't, the PAC-12 won't get within 100 feet of Boise and of course the Academic Snobs B1G and ACC would never take them. That leaves the Big East as the only option. I think they will eventually have to take a bid, but for now it makes no sense because they are basically a shoo in for the BCS every year...

I have seen some chatter but I dont think they are a real possibility.
 
The article basically says that it is highly unlikely the BCS takes away the Big East AQ bid for many reasons.

1. There is not criteria on standards to take away a 6th BCS conference if you keep most of league for over 2 years.

2. The Big East would have substantial reason to bring major lawsuits against ESPN and BCS.

3. Why would BCS be so hell bent on getting rid of Big East auto's bid if it could lead to a major lawsuit and many believe there is a major case against BCS and ESPN. The major stuff is out there to see but the most recent comments on BC athletic director saying ESPN called the shots for raiding Big East would be one of many major factors.
 
The article basically says that it is highly unlikely the BCS takes away the Big East AQ bid for many reasons.

1. There is not criteria on standards to take away a 6th BCS conference if you keep most of league for over 2 years.

2. The Big East would have substantial reason to bring major lawsuits against ESPN and BCS.

3. Why would BCS be so hell bent on getting rid of Big East auto's bid if it could lead to a major lawsuit and many believe there is a major case against BCS and ESPN. The major stuff is out there to see but the most recent comments on BC athletic director saying ESPN called the shots for raiding Big East would be one of many major factors.

The Big East just has to have 8 teams to keep their bid. This is the minimum number of teams a conference can have and still be a conference by NCAA rules.

A lawsuit was probably not a huge worry by the BCS or ESPN until the comments from the BC AD came out. Those are damaging enough to force people to take the stand under oath in a lawsuit. Does ESPN really want to do this? Does the BCS really want to come under fire again and get back on everyone's radar? If ESPN loses a lawsuit like this, it could cripple the company. Even if they don't win, their public perception could be severely damaged. I think the Big East may keep the AQ status by default more than anything else. If the Big East keeps the bid, UC has to stay in the Big East. They would be stupid at that point to leave. If the Big East ultimately loses their AQ status, UC better be on the first train out of town if they have any options at all.
 
From @blauds (mark blaudschun)

Big East BCS berth secure through 2015 as long as 8 teams in league and minimum requirements (which all BCS leagues must follow) are met.
 
From Zagsblog:

On the same day the Big East decided to invite six new football programs into its midst, Conference USA and the Mountain West announced they would create a new super football amalgam of their own. After a conference call Friday afternoon, the Big East decided to invite Air Force, Boise State and Navy into the league for football only, and to extend invitations to Central Florida, Houston and SMU for all sports, according to The Boston Globe . The league also approved raising the exit fee to $10 million from $5 million, the Globe reported. Boise and Air Force could join the Big East — which has an automatic BCS bid — as soon as next season, while UCF, Houston and SMU may wait until 2013 , the Globe reported. “[Boise and Air Force] both mentioned they were in contact with the Big East, but did not elaborate, ” Mountain West Commissioner Craig Thompson said on a conference call announcing the merger with Conference USA. If the new Big East can land Boise, Air Force, Houston and SMU, they would be taking four of the most attractive football programs from the newly merged league. Navy is taking a wait-and-see approach based on what Louisville, Cincinnati, West Virginia and the other remaining Big East football schools do. “We’ve had extensive discussions with the Big East, and our stance remains the same,” Navy AD Chet Gladchuk told The Capital of Annapolis, Md . “We believe strongly that for the Big East to be a viable conference, the six remaining institutions have got to make a long- term commitment.” The Big East could target Temple if Navy opts not to join. Villanova, which shares the Philadelphia market with Temple, blocked Temple’s admission into the new Big East during the conference call, the Globe reported. The new Big East schools will be formally invited early next week, and the announcement could come Wednesday at Big East basketball media day at the New. York Athletic Club. Meantime, Conference USA and the Mountain West announced their football-only
 
Actually, I think I would like this new football conference if it ever happens. Hopefully wvu and ul buy into this. But first, boise and air force need to accept. ESPN said on its ticker during sports center this morning that Boise and Air Force will probably decline. ESPN also said that the 6 remaining football schools will not commit to the $10 mil exit fee unless Boise and AF join conference. ECU still will join, but Navy appears uncertain.

Should be an interesting week leading up to Big East Media Day on Wednesday.
 
Back
Top