2017-2018 Season

[jacobkdoyle]

It's good to hear about Brooks. He is probably the veteran return player that I would like to hear that honor going to. Obviously new players wouldn't be eligible in the MIP category. If Brooks turns out to be improved on both ends we should be pretty good next year...no to mention this year we will have better quality back up minutes. I could see him logging DeBerry type minutes at 15 mpg (in the closer games) since he was already taking more of Scott's minutes as the season progressed.

He can back up Clark or Washington IMO. Washington and Clark are both basically PF's anyway so Brooks becomes the defacto C when he enters the game with either of them.

I feel like he and Washington can hold down the 5 and get enough minutes between them. I'm personally not for having Washington and Brooks on the floor together at all this season. Clark, Diarra, Scott, or going small with Evans or Williams seems like the best option at the 4 to maintain what we want to do this year in terms of style of play imo. If Washington/Brooks go 23/17, I'm perfectly fine with that. Washington can still get his work in. I have no dounts about that.

 

[Bearcat513]

Mick needs to win in the tournament or be gone. Coach came to UC with a reputation of being a great recruiter. The recruiting hasn't been very good. How in the world does everyone in the country offer Jaxson Hayes except UC?

Jaxon Hayes is a complete project. He's all potential. Was the 7th man for Moe last year averaging 2 points and 3 rebs a game. UC doesn't need another big that is an offensive liability. That's why we didn't offer him.

UK needs a 4 year player who will be decent by their senior year. XU offered because they have 5-7 spots open.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Cronin isn’t recruiting well????
Jacob Evans
Jarron Cumberland
Gary Clark
Keith Williams
Kyle Washington
Cane Broome.

These are guys that would start on probably 325 D1 schools at some point.
I mean, do you just want a highly ranked recruiting class? look
At the 2016 class, Xavier had the 26th ranked class and we had the 65th.
Guess who’s class I’d take after a year in the books? Uc’s

I’ll take Jarron Cumberland and nysier brooks over tyrique Jones and Goodin.

Rankings mean nothing. Cronin has been getting under the radar guys who are offensively talented

I think those guys would start at more places than that.

I've mentioned it before, but I'm more interested in what those classes would look like if they were re-ranked based on the players actual performance to that point in their career. Bc if you want to look at the 2015 HS class, I have a hard time believing that in the 2017-18 season Evans wouldn't be viewed as a 5*. Clark would be too. I mean, he was listed as a 4th team AA preseason on a big publication. Is that not more important than what the guys watching HS games 4 years ago thought?

 

[waterhead]

Cronin isn’t recruiting well????
Jacob Evans
Jarron Cumberland
Gary Clark
Keith Williams
Kyle Washington
Cane Broome.

These are guys that would start on probably 325 D1 schools at some point.
I mean, do you just want a highly ranked recruiting class? look
At the 2016 class, Xavier had the 26th ranked class and we had the 65th.
Guess who’s class I’d take after a year in the books? Uc’s

I’ll take Jarron Cumberland and nysier brooks over tyrique Jones and Goodin.

Rankings mean nothing. Cronin has been getting under the radar guys who are offensively talented

It's a good point to compare the recruiting after some games have been played. How else can you tell if the recruit was worth the stars? Stars are usually a good indicator in terms of PROBABILITY of success overall but not on an individual level.

I think Cronin is one of the better coaches in the country at finding value on the board. Call it "Money Ball" or whatever. He gets more out of his recruits than most.

I wouldn't mind nabbing some more of the "obvious" talent out there rather than settling for figuring out who the diamonds are though.

 

[juckerrules]

Cumberland

Rothstein lists Cumberland as one of 20 "breakout players for 2017-18"

https://www.fanragsports.com/rothstein-20-breakout-players-for-17-18-cbb-season/

Calls Jarron "a linebacker on roller skates"

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

It's a good point to compare the recruiting after some games have been played. How else can you tell if the recruit was worth the stars? Stars are usually a good indicator in terms of PROBABILITY of success overall but not on an individual level.

I think Cronin is one of the better coaches in the country at finding value on the board. Call it "Money Ball" or whatever. He gets more out of his recruits than most.

I wouldn't mind nabbing some more of the "obvious" talent out there rather than settling for figuring out who the diamonds are though.

Good post. Cronin is a very good Coach. Especially considering our present league affiliation which hinders his efforts to attract the higher profile players. He is also a very good evaluator of talent. That is why Huggins and Pitino valued his service. There is a reason other coaches follow who we recruit. They know he finds the talent. Like you my hope is we eventually end up in a P-5 conference which makes his job easier and we become a perferred destination. In the meantime I am enjoying rooting for the Cats and watching them grow.

 

[waterhead]

Good post. Cronin is a very good Coach. Especially considering our present league affiliation which hinders his efforts to attract the higher profile players. He is also a very good evaluator of talent. That is why Huggins and Pitino valued his service. There is a reason other coaches follow who we recruit. They know he finds the talent. Like you my hope is we eventually end up in a P-5 conference which makes his job easier and we become a perferred destination. In the meantime I am enjoying rooting for the Cats and watching them grow.

So we have a few of things working against us this year in recruiting. We have some playing time to offer a scoring big this year but not a lot out there to bring in. There are some wings and PG's out there but there are potential perceptions of playing time issues with the guys we already have. We are not P5 making things a bit more difficult.

Some positives. I feel like our conference could make a push to move up a spot or two in conference rankings this year. Maybe we can get to 6 or 5 if everything goes right. A new arena coming and yearly trips to the dance are on the table. Maybe we can take advantage in the spring but I wouldn't mind landing one more quality recruit before then besides LoJo.

 

[waterhead]

I feel like he and Washington can hold down the 5 and get enough minutes between them. I'm personally not for having Washington and Brooks on the floor together at all this season. Clark, Diarra, Scott, or going small with Evans or Williams seems like the best option at the 4 to maintain what we want to do this year in terms of style of play imo. If Washington/Brooks go 23/17, I'm perfectly fine with that. Washington can still get his work in. I have no dounts about that.

Obviously there is a lot of excitement about the scoring ability of the starting 5 this year. However, practice is now upon us and I am excited to see who is going to shine on the bench. I am not expecting a lot of scoring from the bench so it's going to come down to who listens and does all the little things right.

Guys like Scott, Jenifer, and Brooks have a leg up because they already know what they need to do to get on the floor and Cronin will favor the veterans all else being equal. Hustle, rebound, defend, take care of the ball, set picks, assist, block shots, know where you are supposed to be on the court, and take what the D is giving you on offense.

If you can score 4-8 points in a game but grade out as excellent in the "little things" department...you can be just as valuable as some of the starters who can score 15 points. We need the scorers but scorers who take plays off, give up points on D, give up rebounds, or turn the ball over too much can be replaced by a player who scores less but plays smart and hard. There are minutes available and the bench players really have no choice but to understand this if they want to play. You will not get more minutes by telling the coach you need more minutes...that plan has likely failed every time.

Evans and Clark are players who will be tough to steal minutes from because they do most things at a high level on both sides of the ball. I just wish Gary did not get winded as easy...he could be a 35 minute guy like Evans rather than a 28 minute guy. I don't expect Cronin will need to pull either of them out of the game to set an example. However, I can imagine a scenario where Cronin uses the bench to keep his other starters playing smart, playing team ball, and giving max effort...especially early in the season.

 

[waterhead]

Can anyone tell me when first day of practice is for UC?

 

[Chad Brendel]

Can anyone tell me when first day of practice is for UC?

October 4th...

 

[ThomasMac]

When is the Red / Black game this year? Has that been released yet?

 

[Chad Brendel]

When is the Red / Black game this year? Has that been released yet?

Details still being ironed out. I'm assured there will be one though...

 

[ThomasMac]

Thanks Chad

 

[juckerrules]

Obviously there is a lot of excitement about the scoring ability of the starting 5 this year. However, practice is now upon us and I am excited to see who is going to shine on the bench. I am not expecting a lot of scoring from the bench so it's going to come down to who listens and does all the little things right.

Guys like Scott, Jenifer, and Brooks have a leg up because they already know what they need to do to get on the floor and Cronin will favor the veterans all else being equal. Hustle, rebound, defend, take care of the ball, set picks, assist, block shots, know where you are supposed to be on the court, and take what the D is giving you on offense.

If you can score 4-8 points in a game but grade out as excellent in the "little things" department...you can be just as valuable as some of the starters who can score 15 points. We need the scorers but scorers who take plays off, give up points on D, give up rebounds, or turn the ball over too much can be replaced by a player who scores less but plays smart and hard. There are minutes available and the bench players really have no choice but to understand this if they want to play. You will not get more minutes by telling the coach you need more minutes...that plan has likely failed every time.

Evans and Clark are players who will be tough to steal minutes from because they do most things at a high level on both sides of the ball. I just wish Gary did not get winded as easy...he could be a 35 minute guy like Evans rather than a 28 minute guy. I don't expect Cronin will need to pull either of them out of the game to set an example. However, I can imagine a scenario where Cronin uses the bench to keep his other starters playing smart, playing team ball, and giving max effort...especially early in the season.

One of the not so little things....turnovers - the guys who have to really improve in that department are: Brooks, Washington & Cumberland.
I figured how many minutes they played per turnover;
Washington: 16.77
Cumberland: 19.11
Brooks: 14.68

Next was Tre, at an acceptable 22.25
Far and away the best on the team was Jennifer, at 27.87, better than either Caupain (24.72) or KJ (25.42)

Clark (25.14) & Evans (25.86) were pretty solid

Brooks...young, Kyle? Trying to do too much by himself?? When you see Gary Clark at a ratio of assists to turnovers of 1.85 & Kyle at .58 ya gotta wonder

 

[waterhead]

October 4th...

Thanks Chad

 

[waterhead]

One of the not so little things....turnovers - the guys who have to really improve in that department are: Brooks, Washington & Cumberland.
I figured how many minutes they played per turnover;
Washington: 16.77
Cumberland: 19.11
Brooks: 14.68

Next was Tre, at an acceptable 22.25
Far and away the best on the team was Jennifer, at 27.87, better than either Caupain (24.72) or KJ (25.42)

Clark (25.14) & Evans (25.86) were pretty solid

Brooks...young, Kyle? Trying to do too much by himself?? When you see Gary Clark at a ratio of assists to turnovers of 1.85 & Kyle at .58 ya gotta wonder

I think we would all like to see a little more out of Washington in the ass/to ratio. If he would just pass out of double teams more often it would probably solve a big portion of that. Gary finds the open man when he gets doubled.

 

[justinhub2003]

One of the not so little things....turnovers - the guys who have to really improve in that department are: Brooks, Washington & Cumberland.
I figured how many minutes they played per turnover;
Washington: 16.77
Cumberland: 19.11
Brooks: 14.68

Next was Tre, at an acceptable 22.25
Far and away the best on the team was Jennifer, at 27.87, better than either Caupain (24.72) or KJ (25.42)

Clark (25.14) & Evans (25.86) were pretty solid

Brooks...young, Kyle? Trying to do too much by himself?? When you see Gary Clark at a ratio of assists to turnovers of 1.85 & Kyle at .58 ya gotta wonder

If you look at kenpoms TO rate stat, you’ll see that kyle’s isn’t bad at all. Instead of turnovers per minutes, it’s more based on the amount of possessions and probably incorporates usage rate.

Based on that, only brooks and quadruple had concerning TO rates. Every one else is either really good or acceptable.

Jacobs was the best on the team.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

I think we would all like to see a little more out of Washington in the ass/to ratio. If he would just pass out of double teams more often it would probably solve a big portion of that. Gary finds the open man when he gets doubled.

Washington just isn't a good passer. I'd like to see him closer to 20-23 minutes per game this year. He could still get his shots up.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

If you look at kenpoms TO rate stat, you’ll see that kyle’s isn’t bad at all. Instead of turnovers per minutes, it’s more based on the amount of possessions and probably incorporates usage rate.

Based on that, only brooks and quadruple had concerning TO rates. Every one else is either really good or acceptable.

Jacobs was the best on the team.

I don't think Brooks was concerning with TOs. He was a true FR C. It'd be weird if he wasn't among the worst rates.

 

[waterhead]

Washington just isn't a good passer. I'd like to see him closer to 20-23 minutes per game this year. He could still get his shots up.

If we can get enough production in his absence I would not be opposed to it. Obviously we have other scorers so we may not need him as much. However, he was our highest point per minute guy and he's a decent rebounder when he focuses on it. He can make a 3 when open and he demands attention from opposing D's.

Obviously he has some issues on defense which can be improved upon by putting someone else in but not sure it offsets the point production. We have some depth this year so there will be options to throw out there to see who can get the job done. He does get into foul trouble so there will likely be plenty of opportunity.

I still feel like he will end up getting pretty big minutes in the close games (when not in foul trouble) and Cronin will probably continue to insert him on offense and take him out on D during the final minutes of close games. I still wouldn't mind seeing him in the 28 mpg range...but that is just my preference now without seeing some of the new guys play. Brooks was solid but I'm not sure he is ready for a huge role. I could see him at a Deberry type level giving us 15 mpg though....that would be a significant role.