2017-2018 Season

BearcatTalk

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I don't really think anyone's opinion on what minutes to give Washington or Brooks are unwarranted (or any other player for that matter). Anyone is also welcome to disagree with either side.

It's nice we are in a position to debate reducing Kyle's minutes or increasing them for that matter. I personally can't wait to see what Brooks and the other bench players are going to bring this year. We have a good idea with our returning guys and what they will bring with the possible exception of Cumberland...we can't be real sure just how aggressive he is going to be with his touches given the idea he probably gave way to the veterans a lot early on in the season.

Let's just enjoy the discussion. That is what the forum is for.
 
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waterhead said:
I don't really think anyone's opinion on what minutes to give Washington or Brooks are unwarranted (or any other player for that matter). Anyone is also welcome to disagree with either side.

It's nice we are in a position to debate reducing Kyle's minutes or increasing them for that matter. I personally can't wait to see what Brooks and the other bench players are going to bring this year. We have a good idea with our returning guys and what they will bring with the possible exception of Cumberland...we can't be real sure just how aggressive he is going to be with his touches given the idea he probably gave way to the veterans a lot early on in the season.

Let's just enjoy the discussion. That is what the forum is for.
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I agree. Didn’t think basketball talk could get so personal.
 
justinhub2003 said:
I agree. Didn’t think basketball talk could get so personal.
Click to expand...

Umm you're the one who took it there. It was just a normal basketball conversation all day until you came along and started accusing people of weird sh*t that isn't even true. I mean, honestly the last time I can even remember someone being an unhappy fan was when YOU were whining non-stop about the schedule. But whatever man. Keep taking down the strawmen and assuming there's a hidden agenda in every post. I'll be here talking UC hoops.
 
Videos with Evans, Clark, and Broome on media day posted over at BCJ. Really good stuff. I'd recommend checking it out.
 
jacobkdoyle said:
Umm you're the one who took it there. It was just a normal basketball conversation all day until you came along and started accusing people of weird sh*t that isn't even true. I mean, honestly the last time I can even remember someone being an unhappy fan was when YOU were whining non-stop about the schedule. But whatever man. Keep taking down the strawmen and assuming there's a hidden agenda in every post. I'll be here talking UC hoops.
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wow. I went back and read what I said, and I still don't understand why your so upset about it.

I've read all kinds of stuff from UC fans about starting Brooks over Washington and how they should get the same minutes. I personally didn't understand it since just a few years ago people complained that we lacked offense and especially in the post. This is stuff I read on twitter, and other forums and I posted a quick comment about it. thats it. Wasn't directed at anyone.

I think the only thing weird about it is your response; Asking if I can read? Its almost like I insulted your family or something. its a discussion about basketball, I defended Kyle washington and his role on the team and you took it personal and then tried to insult my intelligence (I'd probably get banned for the same thing).


And, I wasn't an unhappy fan but I was disappointed by the schedule having so many bad teams. Thats more so being unhappy with the basketball administration than the players. I never bash our players or our style of play and love our coach. The schedule complaints are me being such a fan that I want the team I love to get the respect it deserves come tourney time. If you saw that as being an unhappy fan then I don't know what to tell you.
 
justinhub2003 said:
wow. I went back and read what I said, and I still don't understand why your so upset about it.

I've read all kinds of stuff from UC fans about starting Brooks over Washington and how they should get the same minutes. I personally didn't understand it since just a few years ago people complained that we lacked offense and especially in the post. This is stuff I read on twitter, and other forums and I posted a quick comment about it. thats it. Wasn't directed at anyone.

I think the only thing weird about it is your response; Asking if I can read? Its almost like I insulted your family or something. its a discussion about basketball, I defended Kyle washington and his role on the team and you took it personal and then tried to insult my intelligence (I'd probably get banned for the same thing).


And, I wasn't an unhappy fan but I was disappointed by the schedule having so many bad teams. Thats more so being unhappy with the basketball administration than the players. I never bash our players or our style of play and love our coach. The schedule complaints are me being such a fan that I want the team I love to get the respect it deserves come tourney time. If you saw that as being an unhappy fan then I don't know what to tell you.
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I was legitimately asking bc I was concerned about your reading comprehension. That sounds harsh, but I was serious. The response you had didn't have anything to do with what was happening on this board. And you offered no other context for the completely unnecessary defense of Washington. If you had read the posts, you would've easily been able to tell that he wasn't being attacked over here. So there was 0 reason to gripe about "UC fans", whoever those people may or may not be. I also was wondering if you read the posts bc you literally ripped off my exact take from yesterday and said it back to me in your response, like it was something you came up with. It was very weird.

And I'm sorry that I took you being unhappy about something basketball related as a fan, as you being an unhappy fan. I have no idea what I was thinking.

Again, the player attacking hasn't been happening over here. At all. By anyone. In any post. So I took exception to you insinuating that the "fans" referenced in your vague comment were unhappy that we had a big man who can shoot. Literally no one has said anything even close to any of that. You made that leap on your own. OR if those "people out there" are really saying that stuff, then talk to them about it. Not the people who have nothing to do with it. Surely you can see why the people here talking about that exact topic thought you were talking about them.

The whole thing is stupid. I'm over it. But in the future, if you're going to complain about someone, make sure it's actually a real person who is posting on this site. Bc you can basically just say whatever you want if you throw out the general "ya know, fans say that stuff" line. If you're going to be critical like that, it's not unreasonable to expect it to actually be grounded in truth. And as far as I can tell from what's on this board, you were talking about no one. If I think something is bs like that, I'm going to say something. I'm sorry. But I am. Feel free to name names and correct me if I'm wrong. But there's no reason to bring baseless things like that over here, if they don't exist over here. It comes off as you being a very "righteous", "true fan", who is looking down your nose at those who "attack players". But no one here is impressed bc those people don't exist here. So spare us the judgment when it doesn't apply to any of us. It makes me want to puke.
 
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justinhub2003 said:
This is insane.


ANYWAY.

If you have an Athletic subscription (new Cbb publication called the field house with great writers) they did a feature on Cane Broome

https://247sports.com/tu/MjIzMDU0N3RpbnkyNDc=
Click to expand...

I don't think our fan base has been this positive, excited, and united in a long time. Just don't need people tearing that apart with complaining about fans who don't exist here. Keep that toxic crap off of this board. Not that insane really...
 
jacobkdoyle said:
https://youtu.be/yPRDxzs77sA

Coach Cronin
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Coach talked a lot about speeding things up which seems like a yearly event. For some reason I believe we will actually see it this year even with history suggesting we may not. It will be extremely hard (even if he tried) to slow Broome and Jenifer down.

He also talked a lot about scoring when you get to tourney time. You need players who can manufacture points. He said a coach can only do so much but he can't put the ball in the basket. Obviously this is true...but it IS on the coach to find the players who can do it!! I think he has done a great job lately of finding those players who CAN do it. The question is WILL they when it counts and who will it be?

We can talk about having 5 guys who can score...but we will still need 1 or 2 players who can "score at will" when we need a bucket in crunch time. It seems to me our best two options to be THAT guy is going to come from our new starters rather than our returning vets. Yes our vets can score...but can we put the ball in their hands in the final seconds and EXPECT something great to happen on a regular basis?
 
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waterhead said:
Coach talked a lot about speeding things up which seems like a yearly event. For some reason I believe we will actually see it this year even with history suggesting we may not. It will be extremely hard (even if he tried) to slow Broome and Jenifer down.

He also talked a lot about scoring when you get to tourney time. You need players who can manufacture points. He said a coach can only do so much but he can't put the ball in the basket. Obviously this is true...but it IS on the coach to find the players who can do it!! I think he has done a great job lately of finding those players who CAN do it. The question is WILL they when it counts and who will it be?

We can talk about having 5 guys who can score...but we will still need 1 or 2 players who can "score at will" when we need a bucket in crunch time. It seems to me our best two options to be THAT guy is going to come from our new starters rather than our returning vets. Yes our vets can score...but can we put the ball in their hands in the final seconds and EXPECT something great to happen?
Click to expand...

I feel like Cronin has shifted the weight of the program onto the players shoulders more and more the past few years. And I feel like the guys have responded bc they know that their coach believes in them. But you're right, we need someone to step up in the moment and want to be the man.
 
jacobkdoyle said:
I feel like Cronin has shifted the weight of the program onto the players shoulders more and more the past few years. And I feel like the guys have responded bc they know that their coach believes in them. But you're right, we need someone to step up in the moment and want to be the man.
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I expect pace to increase even if coach is paying lip service (which I don't think he is). The only way to keep our snail pace again would be to tell our PG's to NOT push the break. We can further push pace if he is willing to let our guards get up the floor a little faster (during non fast breaks) without wanting to coach them up the sideline on what to run when they get there. I don't think he is going to tell players not to push break opportunities.

If you are right about putting more on their shoulders (which I think you are)...we may also see less micro management when we don't have a break opportunity but he wants to coach our team while bringing it up the court. We often heard coach yelling at Troy to "GO" from the sideline...but Troy could have also been looking for instruction because he was getting mixed messages from coach. How can he always know when to go and when not to go if that situation changes from possession to possession?
 
waterhead said:
I expect pace to increase even if coach is paying lip service (which I don't think he is). The only way to keep our snail pace again would be to tell our PG's to NOT push the break. We can further push pace if he is willing to let our guards get up the floor a little faster (during non fast breaks) without wanting to coach them up the sideline on what to run when they get there. I don't think he is going to tell players not to push break opportunities.

If you are right about putting more on their shoulders (which I think you are)...we may also see less micro management when we don't have a break opportunity but he wants to coach our team while bringing it up the court. We often heard coach yelling at Troy to "GO" from the sideline...but Troy could have also been looking for instruction because he was getting mixed messages from coach. How can he always know when to go and when not to go if that situation changes from possession to possession?
Click to expand...

The player question becomes..."Coach do you want me to push the ball or look over to you for instructions?" I can do one or the other but not both.
 
waterhead said:
Coach talked a lot about speeding things up which seems like a yearly event. For some reason I believe we will actually see it this year even with history suggesting we may not. It will be extremely hard (even if he tried) to slow Broome and Jenifer down.

He also talked a lot about scoring when you get to tourney time. You need players who can manufacture points. He said a coach can only do so much but he can't put the ball in the basket. Obviously this is true...but it IS on the coach to find the players who can do it!! I think he has done a great job lately of finding those players who CAN do it. The question is WILL they when it counts and who will it be?

We can talk about having 5 guys who can score...but we will still need 1 or 2 players who can "score at will" when we need a bucket in crunch time. It seems to me our best two options to be THAT guy is going to come from our new starters rather than our returning vets. Yes our vets can score...but can we put the ball in their hands in the final seconds and EXPECT something great to happen on a regular basis?
Click to expand...

Overall I think we will play faster than last season (We took 18.7 seconds per Offensive possession). Just shaving off 1.5 seconds would put us in the top 150 of offensive pace. I think our KP overall pace will still stay in the backend of the 200's because of how much time we force teams to use on offensve. However, if we have an affective press that generates quick TO's, that number can jump.


In that Cane Broome article, it mentions that Cronin wants him to use his speed and quickness selectively to limit TO's. I think thats the most interesting thing to see; how fast do we actually play.

Also it works out perfectly that our first game of the year is against Savannah State who uses just 12.1 seconds of offense per possession.
 
Our Offensive of possession length was 18.7

Here is the teams who made the Elite 8:
UK 15.3
UNC 15.4
Kansas 15.9
Zaga 15.9
Florida 16.2
South Carolina 16.6
Oregon 16.9
Unnamed team a few miles away 17.6


So I do think that offensive talent and offensive pace is a key factor to advancing far in the tourney.

The Goal should be be about 16.5 seconds per offensive possession which is a huge jump from 18.7 but with Cane and how good we are in transition, its possible.
 
justinhub2003 said:
Overall I think we will play faster than last season (We took 18.7 seconds per Offensive possession). Just shaving off 1.5 seconds would put us in the top 150 of offensive pace. I think our KP overall pace will still stay in the backend of the 200's because of how much time we force teams to use on offensve. However, if we have an affective press that generates quick TO's, that number can jump.


In that Cane Broome article, it mentions that Cronin wants him to use his speed and quickness selectively to limit TO's. I think thats the most interesting thing to see; how fast do we actually play.

Also it works out perfectly that our first game of the year is against Savannah State who uses just 12.1 seconds of offense per possession.
Click to expand...

This is where the player questions start to develop. I want you to play fast when it is obvious you won't turn it over...lol! It's a mixed message that is extremely hard for the player to always be in the same mind frame as coach. It's hard to find that balance where the coach and PG are on the same page. With Troy coach often wanted him to push it more...but there was hesitancy for some reason. The obvious reason is that the player knew that turning it over is the main concern even when coach is screaming to push the ball.
 

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