2019-2020 Open Thread

[skyblade]

I agree with most of this. I think the staff has done good with recruiting. The transfers, not so much, but like you said, most of these guys aren’t difference makers and if they are, they aren’t coming to the American. Losing Tate looks bad, but the reality is, you hope our freshman can be better than him. The sooner they get minutes the better.

The recruiting is pretty in line with Cronin's recruiting, which I figured it would be. Fans convinced themselves that Cronin can't recruit, but in reality it's largely about conference.

Harvey is the only exception of getting a true 4-star, but given his legal issues and late reclassify, I don't give Brannen too much credit.

Eason is the high-three star/low four-star type guy Cronin generally managed to pull one of every year or two.

The rest (besides Mason) are 200ish guys who generally make up most of the roster.

The thing we really are lacking on is bigs. Bigs are the hardest to recruit and Brannen seems to be having no success. It's odd because a project big (like Ballard) who would probably red-shirt could be a four-year starter here (21-25) with our lack of depth.

 

[Queens_NYC]

Curious, who will be the top 5 in the league? Memphis, Houston, then who? WSU lost their whole team. Temple is trash. Just curious. I think we will still be in the running if Kieth comes back. Could be wrong. But we just won the league this year with Jarron being hurt for half the games. Houston will always be there with Sampson. Memphis will always have talent but other than that, I’m not sure who you can count on in this league. Marshall hasn’t impressed me since they got here.

Right. There's no reason to believe that we can't finish top 3 next season.

The coaching staff is actively pursuing transfers who will at least be stop gaps for Jarron and Tre's spots at the start of next season, and if the younger players (Eason and Gabe in particular) prove to be much better than expected and steal minutes, the transfers will still provide much needed depth and experience.

We should still fight for every high major-quality transfer that fills a need and hopefully the staff adjusts their approach and learns from shortcomings as the process goes on.

 

[cincyguy13]

The recruiting is pretty in line with Cronin's recruiting, which I figured it would be. Fans convinced themselves that Cronin can't recruit, but in reality it's largely about conference.

Harvey is the only exception of getting a true 4-star, but given his legal issues and late reclassify, I don't give Brannen too much credit.

Eason is the high-three star/low four-star type guy Cronin generally managed to pull one of every year or two.

The rest (besides Mason) are 200ish guys who generally make up most of the roster.

The thing we really are lacking on is bigs. Bigs are the hardest to recruit and Brannen seems to be having no success. It's odd because a project big (like Ballard) who would probably red-shirt could be a four-year starter here (21-25) with our lack of depth.

The last cronin team, 5-6 of the guys that transferred went to low mid major schools. The jury is still out on the guys we have coming in. Brannen has 4 freshman coming in that we have no idea if they are good or not. If they are all good, or even if two are good, the argument that he can’t recruit looks stupid. Saying he has already failed recruiting before the recruits play a game feels like a bit of a rush. He’s been here 1 year and this is his first real class. Eason looks great, Gabe looks great.

The only guys I really wanted out of all these players so far were Brandon Johnson and JaDun micheal. That’s it for me so far. Ballard looked really raw and probably wouldn’t be good in a couple years. I would have like him for the future. All these other players are role players. Don’t know why people are that worried about them. I would also like to sign some guys but we are acting like Jalen Tate was a must have. The guy is probably the 8th best player on a good team.

 

[cincyguy13]

Right. There's no reason to believe that we can't finish top 3 next season.

The coaching staff is actively pursuing transfers who will at least be stop gaps for Jarron and Tre's spots at the start of next season, and if the younger players (Eason and Gabe in particular) prove to be much better than expected and steal minutes, the transfers will still provide much needed depth and experience.

We should still fight for every high major-quality transfer that fills a need and hopefully the staff adjusts their approach and learns from shortcomings as the process goes on.

They are fighting. They have been there on most of these guys. Just not getting them. I know social media says we made contact with every transfer but I would think we weren’t all the way in on all of these guys. Some years you miss. Keep trying. Once again, most of these guys aren’t hame changers. It looks worse than it actually is

 

[TheLivingLegend]

The last cronin team, 5-6 of the guys that transferred went to low mid major schools. The jury is still out on the guys we have coming in. Brannen has 4 freshman coming in that we have no idea if they are good or not. If they are all good, or even if two are good, the argument that he can’t recruit looks stupid. Saying he has already failed recruiting before the recruits play a game feels like a bit of a rush. He’s been here 1 year and this is his first real class. Eason looks great, Gabe looks great.

The only guys I really wanted out of all these players so far were Brandon Johnson and JaDun micheal. That’s it for me so far. Ballard looked really raw and probably wouldn’t be good in a couple years. I would have like him for the future. All these other players are role players. Don’t know why people are that worried about them. I would also like to sign some guys but we are acting like Jalen Tate was a must have. The guy is probably the 8th best player on a good team.

Valid points

 

[justinhub2003]

If I had to rank next years AAC (which doing little to no research)
I’d go:

1. Houston (by a landslide )
2. Memphis
3. SMU
4. Tulsa
5. Cincinnati
6. WSU
7. South Florida
8. UCF
9. Temple
10. ECU
11. Tulane


I think it will end up being the worst year ever recorded in AAC history and were looking at 1-2 bid league with 3 at max.

The league is garbage. Flat out trash. And Outside of Houston and UC, who has momentum?

 

[skyblade]

The last cronin team, 5-6 of the guys that transferred went to low mid major schools. The jury is still out on the guys we have coming in. Brannen has 4 freshman coming in that we have no idea if they are good or not. If they are all good, or even if two are good, the argument that he can’t recruit looks stupid. Saying he has already failed recruiting before the recruits play a game feels like a bit of a rush. He’s been here 1 year and this is his first real class. Eason looks great, Gabe looks great.

The only guys I really wanted out of all these players so far were Brandon Johnson and JaDun micheal. That’s it for me so far. Ballard looked really raw and probably wouldn’t be good in a couple years. I would have like him for the future. All these other players are role players. Don’t know why people are that worried about them. I would also like to sign some guys but we are acting like Jalen Tate was a must have. The guy is probably the 8th best player on a good team.

Where did I say he had failed? I've said all along that I don't expect Brannen to recruit much better than Cronin. It's about development and game planning.

Until they actually step on the court and play here, which is the most important way to judge, I look at rankings. Though you are plenty ready to judge guys based on where they transferred to. Cronin's recruiting was judged by rankings, so it's fair to judge Brannen the same way.

Eason is 120ish, Cronin generally pulled in one of these every year or two (Samari Curtis, Keith Williams). Gabe and Saunders are 200ish.

We need a young center and it's almost certainly going to be a project guy like Ballard. It's hard to get centers and harder to get centers who are ready to play now.

Add a project big (or two) and maybe a transfer big man and it's a solid class. I'm fine with that. It's not the spectacular class that fans seemed to think we were missing out on because Cronin couldn't recruit, but I never believed that would happen anyway.

 

[cincyguy13]

If I had to rank next years AAC (which doing little to no research)
I’d go:

1. Houston (by a landslide )
2. Memphis
3. SMU
4. Tulsa
5. Cincinnati
6. WSU
7. South Florida
8. UCF
9. Temple
10. ECU
11. Tulane


I think it will end up being the worst year ever recorded in AAC history and were looking at 1-2 bid league with 3 at max.

The league is garbage. Flat out trash. And Outside of Houston and UC, who has momentum?

I’ll put us top 3 until proven otherwise. I have no faith in smu or Tulsa, knowing that Tulsa just won the league. We just won the league with a first year coach, 6 new players, and a hurt Jarron for much of the year. Forgive me it I don’t have more faith in these other teams.

 

[cincyguy13]

Where did I say he had failed? I've said all along that I don't expect Brannen to recruit much better than Cronin. It's about development and game planning.

Until they actually step on the court and play here, which is the most important way to judge, I look at rankings. Though you are plenty ready to judge guys based on where they transferred to. Cronin's recruiting was judged by rankings, so it's fair to judge Brannen the same way.

Eason is 120ish, Cronin generally pulled in one of these every year or two (Samari Curtis, Keith Williams). Gabe and Saunders are 200ish.

We need a young center and it's almost certainly going to be a project guy like Ballard. It's hard to get centers and harder to get centers who are ready to play now.

Add a project big (or two) and maybe a transfer big man and it's a solid class. I'm fine with that. It's not the spectacular class that fans seemed to think we were missing out on because Cronin couldn't recruit, but I never believed that would happen anyway.

Wasn’t Eason a top 100 guy like a month ago? Saunders was also top 100 on ESPN at one point. Gabe was also higher than 200. Not saying your wrong but it’s weird that a guy like Eason can be top 100, be the best player on a team that won state and drop. If 2 of these guys are good, all the sudden brannen is a good recruiter.

I agree, we could use a project guy. I would have taken Ballard. We seem to be first in on him. Big schools got involved, we lose him. This is what happens most of the time in college sports.

 

[waterhead]

Wasn’t Eason a top 100 guy like a month ago? Saunders was also top 100 on ESPN at one point. Gabe was also higher than 200. Not saying your wrong but it’s weird that a guy like Eason can be top 100, be the best player on a team that won state and drop. If 2 of these guys are good, all the sudden brannen is a good recruiter.

I agree, we could use a project guy. I would have taken Ballard. We seem to be first in on him. Big schools got involved, we lose him. This is what happens most of the time in college sports.

Put me in the camp of building the future. We have big shoes to fill but not big holes in the roster. We have 3 bigs...let’s get one more. We have 3 wings in Williams, Harvey, and Gabe that I think will be pretty good. We have 3 PG options and MAW can play two positions and probably Mason as well.

I want some depth on interior for foul trouble but I am okay with playing the guys we have to get them ready for next year and beyond

 

[skyblade]

Wasn’t Eason a top 100 guy like a month ago? Saunders was also top 100 on ESPN at one point. Gabe was also higher than 200. Not saying your wrong but it’s weird that a guy like Eason can be top 100, be the best player on a team that won state and drop. If 2 of these guys are good, all the sudden brannen is a good recruiter.

I agree, we could use a project guy. I would have taken Ballard. We seem to be first in on him. Big schools got involved, we lose him. This is what happens most of the time in college sports.

I look at the 247 composite ranking, I feel it has the least variation because it takes the average of multiple services (247, Rivals and ESPN). Eason is 119, Gabe 189 and Saunders 201. There is some variation over time and Cronin always argued that rankings are biased towards bigger schools (basically if a guy commits to UC, their ranking is more likely to drop and if they commit to Kentucky, their ranking is likely to increase).

Eason was top 100 for about 5 months in early 2019, well before he committed here, he is however ranked 78 by Rivals and 4 stars, which is probably the ranking you've heard referred to. Guys in the 100 range tend to be four-stars in at least one service and three stars in another (hence why I refer to them as high-three/low-four star guys). Saunders shot up to 150ish in June 2019, but has generally been around 200. Gabe topped out at 163 also in June/July 2019, but has slowly dropped since then.

If we judge guys based on how they do here, then Cronin was a much better recruiter than the ranking numbers made him out to be. Hopefully Brannen can do the same by finding guys who fit the system and developing them. But fans obsessed over the recruiting rankings with Cronin and I'm sure they will with Brannen as well.

 

[cincyguy13]

Put me in the camp of building the future. We have big shoes to fill but not big holes in the roster. We have 3 bigs...let’s get one more. We have 3 wings in Williams, Harvey, and Gabe that I think will be pretty good. We have 3 PG options and MAW can play two positions and probably Mason as well.

I want some depth on interior for foul trouble but I am okay with playing the guys we have to get them ready for next year and beyond

We definitely need bigs. No one will disagree with that. But as far as guards and wings, we are fine. Let’s see what we got. Could be good, could not. We will see. Obviously get talent if we can, like the Michigan guy, a JaDun micheal type that pops up, but the losing out on the Tate/one year guys isn’t a big deal.

 

[skyblade]

Put me in the camp of building the future. We have big shoes to fill but not big holes in the roster. We have 3 bigs...let’s get one more. We have 3 wings in Williams, Harvey, and Gabe that I think will be pretty good. We have 3 PG options and MAW can play two positions and probably Mason as well.

I want some depth on interior for foul trouble but I am okay with playing the guys we have to get them ready for next year and beyond

I'm also in that camp. I'd like to see us add at least one freshman center or transfer who can play for 2-3 years. I want to avoid living grad transfer to grad transfer, as it seems like a risky business. Especially since next year feels more like a development year anyway.

I doubt many people expect us to make the NCAA tournament next year. If we do, great and credit to Brannen. But if we don't, I won't be upset as long as we put up a reasonable showing (at minimum have a winning record).

 

[cincyguy13]

I look at the 247 composite ranking, I feel it has the least variation because it takes the average of multiple services (247, Rivals and ESPN). Eason is 119, Gabe 189 and Saunders 201. There is some variation over time and Cronin always argued that rankings are biased towards bigger schools (basically if a guy commits to UC, their ranking is more likely to drop and if they commit to Kentucky, their ranking is likely to increase).

Eason was top 100 for about 5 months in early 2019, well before he committed here, he is however ranked 78 by Rivals and 4 stars, which is probably the ranking you've heard referred to. Guys in the 100 range tend to be four-stars in at least one service and three stars in another (hence why I refer to them as high-three/low-four star guys). Saunders shot up to 150ish in June 2019, but has generally been around 200. Gabe topped out at 163 also in June/July 2019, but has slowly dropped since then.

If we judge guys based on how they do here, then Cronin was a much better recruiter than the ranking numbers made him out to be. Hopefully Brannen can do the same by finding guys who fit the system and developing them. But fans obsessed over the recruiting rankings with Cronin and I'm sure they will with Brannen as well.

Can we give brannen time? That’s all I’m saying. People don’t care about ranking if they turn out good. No one is complaining about getting sk even though he wasn’t ranked high. You can’t have half your team be terrible and revolve your whole team around one player. I don’t care if your cronin, brannen, or anyone else. Most of the people on here said they expected a slight upgrade in recruiting. No one expected all top 100 guys

 

[cincyguy13]

I look at the 247 composite ranking, I feel it has the least variation because it takes the average of multiple services (247, Rivals and ESPN). Eason is 119, Gabe 189 and Saunders 201. There is some variation over time and Cronin always argued that rankings are biased towards bigger schools (basically if a guy commits to UC, their ranking is more likely to drop and if they commit to Kentucky, their ranking is likely to increase).

Eason was top 100 for about 5 months in early 2019, well before he committed here, he is however ranked 78 by Rivals and 4 stars, which is probably the ranking you've heard referred to. Guys in the 100 range tend to be four-stars in at least one service and three stars in another (hence why I refer to them as high-three/low-four star guys). Saunders shot up to 150ish in June 2019, but has generally been around 200. Gabe topped out at 163 also in June/July 2019, but has slowly dropped since then.

If we judge guys based on how they do here, then Cronin was a much better recruiter than the ranking numbers made him out to be. Hopefully Brannen can do the same by finding guys who fit the system and developing them. But fans obsessed over the recruiting rankings with Cronin and I'm sure they will with Brannen as well.

Let me also say, I hope we do start getting better recruits. Not 5 stars but a couple 4s. Like I’ve always said. I think brannen has to win and prove he can do so. That’s on him. The thing that is alarming to me is the moeller kid not even giving us a chance. Duncomb. If we can’t get the kids in our own city to at least consider us, we aren’t getting anyone that is highly ranked

 

[TheLongHaul]

Let me also say, I hope we do start getting better recruits. Not 5 stars but a couple 4s. Like I’ve always said. I think brannen has to win and prove he can do so. That’s on him. The thing that is alarming to me is the moeller kid not even giving us a chance. Duncomb. If we can’t get the kids in our own city to at least consider us, we aren’t getting anyone that is highly ranked

Duncomb interest was already decided prior to Brannen taking the job. Regardless of what you think of Mick, Duncomb never fit his style so my guess is that he was never really a fan of UC. Not to mention he wasn't born and raised Cincy. Look at the younger local players, all have serious interest in UC. Now if they all start going elsewhere I'll be a little concerned assuming UC wants them (and as of now no reason to believe they don't)

ps to Skyblade - Samari fit into the 200ish category. I think he was rated around 192 or something.

 

[sirthought]

The big goal is to recruit the best incoming freshmen we can and develop them.

From that standpoint, I think Brannen has pulled in more talented frosh than Cronin did in some time. We'll see if I'm wrong with next year's class, but last season's new class weren't stars out of the gate, but they played with a ton of promise.

I know not everyone thought of Adams-Woods as a PG, but I think he did pretty well when given the chance to setup plays. Harvey and Davenport were high energy guys that started to improve on defense and rebounding. I think they all showed a talent for scoring at different levels, but that will improve.

Unless we have a stacked team, we aren't going to attract the more talented transfers. They want to be on a team that is primed to make the tournament. Even if we believe in our guys, these other players are looking at who has stars next to their name too.

But while McNeal was sort of a negative much of the time, I think Sorolla was a big plus overall and I aplaude Brannen for recognizing his ability to fit into the game plan. Similar size to Vogt for practice and just running plays with a similar skill-set position player. He was able to go in for Vogt's breather/foul issue and play similar minutes, even if not quite as good.

And while an upgrade big would be ideal, we all know that's tough. XU is pulling transfers from DII teams! I'd be satisfied to see another Sorolla just for the fact that we could maintain some consistency to the approach. And if it's a grad transfer then we never have to worry about dealing with someone's bad habits for too long.

I do think missing out on Tate hurts a bit, but not the end of the world. He wasn't a player that meant the difference in leveling up, but he was a good enough player for NKU that he had his choice of better D1 programs. Most transfers are not that good. More importantly, he's mature and knows Brannen's system, which would have helped our younger players. You can't say enough about adding experience and knowledge. So, that hurts.

Keith would be wise to stay with COVID19 really putting the breaks on basketball around the world. I wouldn't be surprised if they hold off on G-League play for a while, and foreign leagues will be hurting financially.

 

[itsamemario]

I’ll put us top 3 until proven otherwise. I have no faith in smu or Tulsa, knowing that Tulsa just won the league. We just won the league with a first year coach, 6 new players, and a hurt Jarron for much of the year. Forgive me it I don’t have more faith in these other teams.

Not sold on Tulsa. Lost their best player to Transfer to Colorado and their best(and basically only) good post player has graduated.

SMU lost their PG as he is in the NBA draft and apparently flunked out of school.

 

[Chance2017]

I look at the 247 composite ranking, I feel it has the least variation because it takes the average of multiple services (247, Rivals and ESPN). Eason is 119, Gabe 189 and Saunders 201. There is some variation over time and Cronin always argued that rankings are biased towards bigger schools (basically if a guy commits to UC, their ranking is more likely to drop and if they commit to Kentucky, their ranking is likely to increase).

Eason was top 100 for about 5 months in early 2019, well before he committed here, he is however ranked 78 by Rivals and 4 stars, which is probably the ranking you've heard referred to. Guys in the 100 range tend to be four-stars in at least one service and three stars in another (hence why I refer to them as high-three/low-four star guys). Saunders shot up to 150ish in June 2019, but has generally been around 200. Gabe topped out at 163 also in June/July 2019, but has slowly dropped since then.

If we judge guys based on how they do here, then Cronin was a much better recruiter than the ranking numbers made him out to be. Hopefully Brannen can do the same by finding guys who fit the system and developing them. But fans obsessed over the recruiting rankings with Cronin and I'm sure they will with Brannen as well.

247 Composite is not a good tool to use because ESPN's rankings are trash and throws everything off. You are better using 247's ranking or rivals as a comparison point.

Also I think people are SLEEPING on Gabe Madsen. Going to be really good.

 

[cincyguy13]

247 Composite is not a good tool to use because ESPN's rankings are trash and throws everything off. You are better using 247's ranking or rivals as a comparison point.

Also I think people are SLEEPING on Gabe Madsen. Going to be really good.

I agree with Gabe. He’s 6’5, can dribble and shoot. It’s rare that doesn’t work at the college level. His floor is a solid 4-year player.