22-23 Team Discussion

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skyblade said:
I can see Wes bringing in competition (like Sparks, who looking at this numbers isn't that different from Ody/Lakhin)...
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Right, Sparks would be an obtainable rotation player who fills a need rather than an instant upgrade and starter. I think we need another inside rotation player regardless. But a clear upgrade I would welcome anywhere.
 
sedziobs said:
I would want to set a precedent that we are going to play to win and we will bring in whatever players let us put the best possible team on the court. The draw for attracting/keeping players should be that they will play for a winner, not that they can start.

We have lots of tweener players that can be moved around. I don't see any spots where we couldn't bring in an upgrade and shuffle everyone else around to where everyone is still playing decent minutes.

I just can't agree on MAW/DDJ defense. MAW alone is good, especially on a PG. I think he struggles some against taller wings, so it becomes a problem when he's out there with DDJ. I think DDJ was just bad. Teams would iso him and Davenport especially in late game situations. We had no answer. I still don't really trust overall defense stats, preferring to stick to proxy stats like block+steal. But on EvanMiya DDJ was 8th on the team on defense. MAW was 4th.

Our defense was on a down trend all year long. In the last 10 games we were 116 on offense and 170 on defense. We didn't have a single AdjDef below 90 after Feb 1, and the only games below 95 were heavily adjusted against Houston. Without adjusting, we gave up at least 1.08 points per possession in every game except a pair against USF. Before Feb 1, we held every opponent except X and Memphis under 1 ppp. Defense is definitely an issue. And since we're running a liability out there in Davenport most of the game, we can't afford another one on the court at the same time. But we're trying to do that with DDJ (in my opinion).
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Brannen tried to set the precedent that we will bring in whoever gives us the best chance to win and we see where that got him. In order to get guys who are willing to spend a year or two developing on the bench (and contributing in practice) you need them to trust that you will give them a chance. It doesn't mean they will become a starter, but it means if they do everything you tell them to do, you are going to give them a real shot to prove they deserve minutes.

Ody is my example. What do you think Wes told him last year when he recruited him. Probably something along the lines of we are going have you spend one year developing and then next year (when Ado/Koval graduate) you'll get your shot. If you bring in a veteran center, immediately give that new guy first teams reps in practice and play him 25+ minutes per game, Ody will feel like he never got a shot. Other guys aren't going to trust you won't do the same thing to them. It doesn't mean Ody needs to start, just that you need to give him a genuine chance to compete and win the spot (which I think you'd do by bringing in a guy like Sparks).

It may win more games in the short term, but in the end you are going to have a fewer guys come and develop, because they won't trust you not to just throw them aside when another option comes along.

As for our defense, as has been noted many times by Chad, we played a bunch of games in not very many days during February. That meant limited amount of time to practice, which is reflected in our defense and offense getting worse.

I agree on the Davenport/DDJ issue, but it seems like we are going to have to live with it for one more year. It seems like Wes either thinks it's not a problem or that it's an issue we can overcome. If we can get a taller guard, it would allow DDJ/MAW/Transfer to rotate for defensive purposes as well. Plus Skillings may help in defending bigger guards.
 
skyblade said:
Brannen tried to set the precedent that we will bring in whoever gives us the best chance to win and we see where that got him. In order to get guys who are willing to spend a year or two developing on the bench (and contributing in practice) you need them to trust that you will give them a chance. It doesn't mean they will become a starter, but it means if they do everything you tell them to do, you are going to give them a real shot to prove they deserve minutes.

Ody is my example. What do you think Wes told him last year when he recruited him. Probably something along the lines of we are going have you spend one year developing and then next year (when Ado/Koval graduate) you'll get your shot. If you bring in a veteran center, immediately give that new guy first teams reps in practice and play him 25+ minutes per game, Ody will feel like he never got a shot. Other guys aren't going to trust you won't do the same thing to them. It doesn't mean Ody needs to start, just that you need to give him a genuine chance to compete and win the spot (which I think you'd do by bringing in a guy like Sparks).

It may win more games in the short term, but in the end you are going to have a fewer guys come and develop, because they won't trust you not to just throw them aside when another option comes along.

As for our defense, as has been noted many times by Chad, we played a bunch of games in not very many days during February. That meant limited amount of time to practice, which is reflected in our defense and offense getting worse.

I agree on the Davenport/DDJ issue, but it seems like we are going to have to live with it for one more year. It seems like Wes either thinks it's not a problem or that it's an issue we can overcome. If we can get a taller guard, it would allow DDJ/MAW/Transfer to rotate for defensive purposes as well. Plus Skillings may help in defending bigger guards.
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Please. Don't start playing the "but Brannen" card. There are plenty of teams that recruit over players. Houston has been doing it for a while. I don't think Sampson cared that he brought in Josh Carlton to play ahead of senior Reggie Chaney. Taze Moore and Kyler Edwards came in and played 30 minutes right away even before Sasser's injury, which limited available minutes for Jamal Shead and Tramon Mark (at the time). Promising playing time to developing players is one way to run a team, but not the only way. It's not a great strategy if your current roster has serious holes in it.

I'm not buying the too many games reason for poor defense. I watched DDJ and Davenport get abused every game. I don't think more practice fixes that.
 
sedziobs said:
I would want to set a precedent that we are going to play to win and we will bring in whatever players let us put the best possible team on the court. The draw for attracting/keeping players should be that they will play for a winner, not that they can start.

We have lots of tweener players that can be moved around. I don't see any spots where we couldn't bring in an upgrade and shuffle everyone else around to where everyone is still playing decent minutes.

I just can't agree on MAW/DDJ defense. MAW alone is good, especially on a PG. I think he struggles some against taller wings, so it becomes a problem when he's out there with DDJ. I think DDJ was just bad. Teams would iso him and Davenport especially in late game situations. We had no answer. I still don't really trust overall defense stats, preferring to stick to proxy stats like block+steal. But on EvanMiya DDJ was 8th on the team on defense. MAW was 4th.

Our defense was on a down trend all year long. In the last 10 games we were 116 on offense and 170 on defense. We didn't have a single AdjDef below 90 after Feb 1, and the only games below 95 were heavily adjusted against Houston. Without adjusting, we gave up at least 1.08 points per possession in every game except a pair against USF. Before Feb 1, we held every opponent except X and Memphis under 1 ppp. Defense is definitely an issue. And since we're running a liability out there in Davenport most of the game, we can't afford another one on the court at the same time. But we're trying to do that with DDJ (in my opinion).
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Would agree here with MAW and DDJ. On ball D was probably pretty good but the mismatches created other problems. Also DDJ on court with JD and another small guard didn’t allow Wes to run press and trap and that could be the bigger problem of the two.

Gotta get some length in there or take JD or DDJ out or both to run that style effectively. I could see a little Goon Squad action for small spurts of rest for our scorers as we bring in length and mobility to really tire some teams out with press and trap. Throw out Ody, Hensley, Newman, Skillings and MAW or new lengthy PG to go all defense for 5 minutes per half etc.

Maybe go Lakhin, JD, Reed, DDJ, and new PG when we need points. But we need the practice at press and trap before hitting B12 play.
 
Bcatfollower said:
Mass exodus… seems odd he came to uc with Miller and is now leaving. What’s up with Miller, what is he telling guys…
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That they won't be playing... Which is the right thing to do.

This roster needed a massive overhaul to compete. This is step one. Now he needs to go land guys.
 
Bcatfollower said:
Mass exodus… seems odd he came to uc with Miller and is now leaving. What’s up with Miller, what is he telling guys…
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Maybe someday we'll hear the story behind his lack of PT this season but the situation was odd to say the least.

He went from the first guard (and second player) off the bench for the #108 team in KenPom as a 1st-year player to the 3rd guard (and seventh player) off the bench for the #101 team in KenPom as a 2nd-year player.

I know there were reports that his defense was not up to snuff but there were still some games where he could've at least got limited PT.
 
Strange situation I agree. He didn't even come in the game during garbage time late in the season.

So now we only have 3 guards on the roster, and two of them ideally would only be playing PG. We should be able to offer playing time to an experienced SG to bring Skillings along.
 
Wright St's best player Grant Basile is in the portal. 6'9" forward averaged 19 pts, 8 reb. Can score at all three levels, though not a great 3pt shooter.

A lot of Wisconsin chatter since he's from there, but I wonder if we have a shot.
 
waterhead said:
I think Wes (or the players) got it right. Mason, Mike and AJ seems about right to me.

Get the DUDE big. Get the lengthy PG or play maker PG. Get a wing with some defense and at least one talent for shooting or slashing.
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Agree. We def need a jolt scoring wise. DD playing more a defined pg role would be great. JD being a catch and shoot guy... Need a go to scorer imo.
 
TheLivingLegend said:
That they won't be playing... Which is the right thing to do.

This roster needed a massive overhaul to compete. This is step one. Now he needs to go land guys.
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I think he's telling wrong crowd they won't be playing. We needed to upgrade our starters not 11-13 guys on bench. If the 3 players we get in portal push MAW, DDJ, and Davenport down bench, I can live we this. If we don't land 3 starters, Wes is on my hot seat.
 
I surely haven't seen too many PG with Hardaway size and length in March. I've seen plenty 6ft guards that understand how go after defense rebound and box out. Wes used poor coaching this year as excuse. If D1 players don't know how read ball when out comes out of a shooter hands they shouldn't be at this level.
 
Not too many if any run press to generate steals, it's used as tool to take down shot clock and wear other team down. Not having length was another excuse and poorly coached. What other team went as deep we did? Lol and we didn't press the entire 40?
 
TheRealMick said:
I surely haven't seen too many PG with Hardaway size and length in March. I've seen plenty 6ft guards that understand how go after defense rebound and box out. Wes used poor coaching this year as excuse. If D1 players don't know how read ball when out comes out of a shooter hands they shouldn't be at this level.
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I agree with this. I don't care so much about size. Players need to be capable of playing their positions. If DDJ and MAW are going to play together, one of them needs to be able to defend wings, rebound, and finish at the rim like a SG is expected to. If they can't, they should make up for that by being a sharpshooter. DDJ and MAW aren't good at any of those.
 
sedziobs said:
I agree with this. I don't care so much about size. Players need to be capable of playing their positions. If DDJ and MAW are going to play together, one of them needs to be able to defend wings, rebound, and finish at the rim like a SG is expected to. If they can't, they should make up for that by being a sharpshooter. DDJ and MAW aren't good at any of those.
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Yeah I'm afraid we sent wrongs guys off. MAW and DDJ starters on next year team!
 
TheRealMick said:
Not too many if any run press to generate steals, it's used as tool to take down shot clock and wear other team down. Not having length was another excuse and poorly coached. What other team went as deep we did? Lol and we didn't press the entire 40?
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What player off the bench are you bringing in to run the press and trap? Mason, McGinnis? We were deep but our depth was not helpful for press and trap. Hensley was coming along late season as an option. But we were stuck with DDJ and JD as scoring options and neither were a good press and trap options for various reasons. JD has multiple defensive issues. Being posted up, being blown past, and being too slow to run press trap. DDJ was being posted up and not long enough to be effective in trap. Mike was not a press trap option as he was short, could also get posted up, could get shot over or passed over, and was not laterally good enough.

I can agree the coach didn't have the right formula for running his preferred style. But it seems he is addressing that problem right now. He filled a roster of misfits on short notice and many of them were not optimal. If we can't run some press trap this year I will be upset about it. But I am thinking we are going to try to get there with some new additions. Wes filled a roster on short notice. Let's see what he can do with a little time and some hindsight.
 
Now we have 3 spots open. Do we take chance on Paul Mcmillan have better shot with Rayvon? If we turn down our hometown kids for other it's going be huge recruiting hurdle in city.
 
waterhead said:
What player off the bench are you bringing in to run the press and trap? Mason, McGinnis? We were deep but our depth was not helpful for press and trap. Hensley was coming along late season as an option. But we were stuck with DDJ and JD as scoring options and neither were a good press and trap options for various reasons. JD has multiple defensive issues. Being posted up, being blown past, and being too slow to run press trap. DDJ was being posted up and not long enough to be effective in trap. Mike was not a press trap option as he was short, could also get posted up, could get shot over or passed over, and was not laterally good enough.

I can agree the coach didn't have the right formula for running his preferred style. But it seems he is addressing that problem right now. He filled a roster of misfits on short notice and many of them were not optimal. If we can't run some press trap this year I will be upset about it. But I am thinking we are going to try to get there with some new additions. Wes filled a roster on short notice. Let's see what he can do with a little time and some hindsight.
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You not trapping to generate steals! We literally were playing 11 deep. We had better chance pressing length of court over letting teams have their way in half court. What's going changed this season? MAW and DDJ would be starting, neither freshman starting over Newman or JD. So ok we take away Saunders(#1 guy I would've had in press), what other difference we going have? We got wait until 2nd unit to press next year?
 
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