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cincrulz11 said:
I was a cronin guy too, I loved the hire when we made it and got so annoyed with all the crap you'd hear at games from the Huggins worshipers.


And then 2 seasons ago happened. The Nevada game you could see coming the entire season because of the absolute refusal to play the best 5 together. You can't only go to that lineup when you needed it, you had an entire season to let them get in a rhythm together.


It was seeing a legitimate top 5 team going down like all the others in the most Mick Cronin way ever that did it for me. I wasn't calling for him to be fired, but this past season is by far the least amount I've paid attention to the program.



I've said this before and I'll say it again. The goal of changing coaches isn't to be better next year, the goal is that the next 13 years are better than the previous 13 years. That 13 years from now we are better than we were at the end of last season.


With the other programs in the AAC stepping up, I don't think our run of dominance was guaranteed to continue with Mick. He took advantage of an extremely weak league for multiple years. Our recruiting has been trending down for years while Houston's is on an upward rise.



One step back two steps forward.
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Decent counter with alot of valid points.

League being down surely benefited to reg season success... Not like we were steamrolling top tier teams.
 
cincycpaw said:
I was certainly not a huge Mick fan. I was frustrated early but understood where we were. I felt like Mick had a 2 year shit to show what he could do with the program with Troys senior year and Clark’s senior year. Fantastic teams, no march success. After Nevada had mick been fired I wouldn’t have been shocked.

That said, this past year, while still a frustrating March, mick did a terrific job. He earned more time again and I thought again he had a year of a great team to show improvement. Was expecting either March success in 2020 or a Cronin departure. Thought it would be the make or break year. Maybe he thought that to...so bolted.

It is disappointing to not get to see what that team plus Samari could have achieved. But we are on to a new coach. While it could have been a smooth transition with a mature team in place, that didn’t happen. Brooks set this in motion more than anything else and I really wish I knew what was behind that thinking. So now we have to endure 1-2 tougher years for sure and hope it leads to greater success in March in the future. Sucks to live through those years again. Sucks that we did not get into the P5. The program fortunes would be vastly different.
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I still can't wrap my head around this notion that many UC fans have that things are "make or break" in March or that Cronin was (or should have been) anywhere near the hot seat if he didn't make deeper runs. Of all the March flameouts, only the Nevada one was egregious and that was still hardly a fireable offense. Don't get me wrong, I'd have loved a couple more Sweet 16s and an Elite 8, but in Cronin's defense 6 out of 9 times they lost in the tournament as the lower seed, and some of their draws (getting underseeded as a 6 and having to essentially play a road game against also-underseeded 3-seed UCLA in Sacramento) were absolutely brutal.

But I digress... the fact of the matter is that there's a pretty distinct pecking order in college basketball. It's not as unforgiving as college football, but there are still very few programs (no more than 20, probably closer to a dozen) that should reasonably be expected to regularly make deep runs, and thus should be gauging their program by March performance in any meaningful way. They are (in alphabetical order): Arizona, Duke, Florida, Gonzaga, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisville, Michigan, Michigan State, North Carolina, Syracuse, UCLA, Villanova, and . . . you would probably now add Virginia to the list because of Tony Bennett and all the recent success they've had--and maybe Purdue for similar reasons--but that's about it.

These programs have most or all of the following: deep history, recent success, athletic department budget and (*ahem* booster) financial commitment to basketball, conference affiliation (ergo national TV exposure), elite coach, etc.

UC has a mixed history; they've only really been BIG TIME twice (Jucker in the late 50s/early 60s and Huggins in the early-mid 90s). Recently they've consistently been very good, save for the mid 2000s and now presently. Their athletic department budget is pretty typical of school in the mid major conference they play in, their games are on ESPNU (soon to be mostly ESPN+) and CBSSN at weird hours, and while Cronin was in my mind a great coach, they now have John Brannen who is a complete question mark.

Tl;dr a lot of the hallmarks of a truly elite program simply aren't there for UC, which is why it should tell you something that John Brannen was about the best coach they were able to hire once Cronin walked. I think if anything they overperformed under Cronin. Given their conference/TV exposure situation I imagine it's pretty hard to consistently get 4-star recruits or better to come to a place like UC. The only non-Power 5 team besides Villanova and Gonzaga currently really doing it is Memphis, but I expect the NCAA will be looking into that shortly. Even UConn has taken a big recruiting hit in the post-Calhoun era, and they've won 4 (!) NCs in the last 20 years.

Aside from Gonzaga and Nova, UC really has been the only non Power-5 team to make the tournament every year over the last decade. Most mid-majors simply aren't that consistently successful; some have made it farther in the tournament at times (Norwood State) but at the expense of not making it at all several years.

Anyway, this has gone on long enough. My point is this: UC is not an elite program, and until their conference situation changes or unless John Brannen turns out to be Jay Wright and the University is then a little smarter about retaining him than they were with Cronin, they never will be. It was incredibly foolish to trade the consistent success we've enjoyed for a full-bore rebuild with a relatively unproven coach. It may work out, but flip side is that this very may well be "1-2 bad years" followed by "some more bad years." Don't say you weren't warned.
 
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Huggins is gone. Cronin is gone. Brannen is here. Decisions were made that can't be unmade. I don't see the point in belaboring them now. We had to listen to Huggins vs Cronin for over a decade and it was both exhausting and in many respects pointless. Now we have to do it all over again?

What good is it going to do besides fracture the fan base all over again and make it more difficult on the coach, players, and program?
 
waterhead said:
Huggins is gone. Cronin is gone. Brannen is here. Decisions were made that can't be unmade. I don't see the point in belaboring them now. We had to listen to Huggins vs Cronin for over a decade and it was both exhausting and in many respects pointless. Now we have to do it all over again?

What good is it going to do besides fracture the fan base all over again and make it more difficult on the coach, players, and program?
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You should probably pose those questions to Mike Bohn, Neville Pinto, and the Board of Trustees. I'm not trying to be flippant; the University really should explain what its thought processes were.

Firing Huggins was one thing. As good of a coach as he was, he really needed to go--for a number of reasons--even if the University totally mishandled the timing and execution of the whole situation.

This on the other hand is simply baffling. You don't just let a guy like Cronin walk out the door when you're in UC's position. It's not the easiest place to recruit to or win presently, and it's obviously thus not the most attractive job.

Unlike Cronin, who a large part of the fan base would never accept, I think John Brannen is going to get the benefit of the doubt--even if this really isn't off to a promising start. But at the end of the day this whole situation really seems unnecessary and frankly pretty dumb, so it's only fair that people might want some answers.
 
I really don't get the idea that Mick would still be here if Bohn would just give him everything he wanted.



Mick wanted to leave. Mick nearly left for freaking UNLV a couple years ago. So much so that UNLV thought he had committed to them. And that was when he had his best team ever returning to UC.



And that was UNLV. you think he's saying no to UCLA no matter what UC offered?



lets get real.
 
UCats329 said:
You should probably pose those questions to Mike Bohn, Neville Pinto, and the Board of Trustees. I'm not trying to be flippant; the University really should explain what its thought processes were.

Firing Huggins was one thing. As good of a coach as he was, he really needed to go--for a number of reasons--even if the University totally mishandled the timing and execution of the whole situation.

This on the other hand is simply baffling. You don't just let a guy like Cronin walk out the door when you're in UC's position. It's not the easiest place to recruit to or win presently, and it's obviously thus not the most attractive job.

Unlike Cronin, who a large part of the fan base would never accept, I think John Brannen is going to get the benefit of the doubt--even if this really isn't off to a promising start. But at the end of the day this whole situation really seems unnecessary and frankly pretty dumb, so it's only fair that people might want some answers.
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I dont think anything needs to be answered? Bohn offered Mick what he thought he was worth... Im sure ncaa tournament success was a large factor in that. Ucla offered Mick after striking out on 5 other ppl. Mick accepted. Ucla has more money and more history. It's the better basketball program. Mick likely leaves if uc offered higher.

Not really surre what needs to be explained or answered
 
UCats329 said:
You should probably pose those questions to Mike Bohn, Neville Pinto, and the Board of Trustees. I'm not trying to be flippant; the University really should explain what its thought processes were.

Firing Huggins was one thing. As good of a coach as he was, he really needed to go--for a number of reasons--even if the University totally mishandled the timing and execution of the whole situation.

This on the other hand is simply baffling. You don't just let a guy like Cronin walk out the door when you're in UC's position. It's not the easiest place to recruit to or win presently, and it's obviously thus not the most attractive job.

Unlike Cronin, who a large part of the fan base would never accept, I think John Brannen is going to get the benefit of the doubt--even if this really isn't off to a promising start. But at the end of the day this whole situation really seems unnecessary and frankly pretty dumb, so it's only fair that people might want some answers.
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My point is...even if I asked them for answers...the decision has been made. I think they would be able to give me a serviceable answer on the subject anyway don't you think? Perhaps it came down to this...we will pay him X amount of dollars if or until he gets better results in the dance. That is his worth to us because we have some donors who are content and some who are looking for better results in the tourney. If a certain amount of donors wanted to pull their monetary support because they wanted to see tourney results...who knows? Maybe they said "cap him" at his perceived worth because we don't have 4M to be dishing out to him otherwise.

IDK...but there is/was a reason they capped the salary they were willing to offer and maybe they weren't going to be held hostage (again).

Brannen is here now so I don't really care what their reasoning was...but I can assure you they had some reasoning whether you or I would like the reasoning or not.
 
Chad reporting Brannen now has his staff in place. Should be released later today....i know there's a thread for this but a little good news never hurt anyone ;)
 
TheRealUC said:
Chad reporting Brannen now has his staff in place. Should be released later today....i know there's a thread for this but a little good news never hurt anyone ;)
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Staff in place is news. A good staff in place would be good news. Hoping for the latter...haha! But seriously...just hiring someone is what would have to happen either way. We are all hoping for a recruiter with some existing ties that can help us land some targets.
 
waterhead said:
Staff in place is news. A good staff in place would be good news. Hoping for the latter...haha! But seriously...just hiring someone is what would have to happen either way. We are all hoping for a recruiter with some existing ties that can help us land some targets.
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Prepare for the ledge leaners to lament the staff choices in ...3,...2,...1...
 
indydoug said:
Prepare for the ledge leaners to lament the staff choices in ...3,...2,...1...
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Hearing Cronin as lead recruiter and Huggs as assistant coach.

My sources are telling me this deal may still not happen. Huggins does not want to be restricted by "training rules" and Cronin is still trying to calculate cost of living in Cali (4M) vs Cincy (250K).
 
It'll be interesting to see how his staff shakes out. Some will be happy, some will be "meh", and some will hate it.

Realistically, none of this is a surprise. Cronin's players were always loyal, a positive trait to have as a coach. Brannen is the polar opposite in terms of coaching ideals. But, his players at NKU also had his back just like Cronin's did. A shake up was inevitable. Kids play for a coach today more than ever, and we're seeing exactly this as they line up to leave. A better league would have helped, but not solved the problem.

There will be some rough patches ahead. Two years from now we'll have some idea of whether or not he was a good choice.
 
waterhead said:
Hearing Cronin as lead recruiter and Huggs as assistant coach.

My sources are telling me this deal may still not happen. Huggins does not want to be restricted by "training rules" and Cronin is still trying to calculate cost of living in Cali (4M) vs Cincy (250K).
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I don't really know JB that well, but that sounds like a recipe for disaster. Seems to present far too many conflicts :).
 
waterhead said:
Hearing Cronin as lead recruiter and Huggs as assistant coach.

My sources are telling me this deal may still not happen. Huggins does not want to be restricted by "training rules" and Cronin is still trying to calculate cost of living in Cali (4M) vs Cincy (250K).
Click to expand...

Awful hire. Cronin can't recruit. ;)
 
beeman7467 said:
It'll be interesting to see how his staff shakes out. Some will be happy, some will be "meh", and some will hate it.

Realistically, none of this is a surprise. Cronin's players were always loyal, a positive trait to have as a coach. Brannen is the polar opposite in terms of coaching ideals. But, his players at NKU also had his back just like Cronin's did. A shake up was inevitable. Kids play for a coach today more than ever, and we're seeing exactly this as they line up to leave. A better league would have helped, but not solved the problem.

There will be some rough patches ahead. Two years from now we'll have some idea of whether or not he was a good choice.
Click to expand...

A name I saw floating around Twitter was Jayson Gee who was with Winthrop last year. No clue how valid that info is but....
 

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