Thegreatone
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Kicked a FG down 21 late in the 3rd?
Has anyone heard a reason why Butch
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Bearcat_NTS
Well-known member
Said he just wanted to get points because they had no confidence. Seems like he kind of was giving up to me.
rustyroyse
Active member
I actually turned off the tv at that point for this very reason. I had determined since Butch was giving up I might as well go outside and enjoy the rest of my day with my kids. I honestly thought he gave up long before that field goal though. I am less than pleased with him (other than recruiting) so far. I am okay with one more year to get his team here but there have to be improvements or we need to move on.
JasonS
Football Moderator
I need to see more depth on the defensive side of the ball. We just don't have the players right now. One more year of recruiting isn't going to completely change that but we should at least be seeing an improvement in this area. Be patient. It should get better.
CDS86
Well-known member
One more year means a more brutal schedule with a less experienced offense (new qb, some new o-linemen, no DJ woods, no Pead etc.) and probably the same defensive secondary we have now. I'll be patient, but I'm less than optimistic after the inconsistency with which our team plays, and the lack of adjustments made by our coaching staff in-game.
JasonS
Football Moderator
That's fair. It takes time to build a program. At the same time there needs to be improvement from year to year.
Bearcat_NTS
Well-known member
Next year is going to brutal. They have games @OSU @VT (well in DC) @WVU and @TCU. Good luck winning 6 next year. I just hope these two seasons do no completely drain the fan momentum.
JasonS
Football Moderator
Next year is a LONG ways away. I don't care about next year right now.
rustyroyse
Active member
Well said. And I am trying to be as patient as possible but I feel like we are majorly backtracking. Don't get me wrong I don't think anyone could have legitimately predicted the undefeated regular season we had but to win 10 games+ in back to back years and then start a regression is not going to build a program at all. The problems I have seen are coaching related. I am not saying the coaches can make the players do what they need to but they sure can make changes if the players don't. In the Tennessee game the one play where it was noticeable that they put pressure on the QB they forced an errant pass and it seemed like they were scared to do it again. I don't want coaches who are afraid of making mistakes, I want coaches who can learn from their mistakes and make the necessary adjustments. I know no one is perfect and I am trying not to be too critical of Coach Jones and the staff but they need to start showing something or move on.
JasonS
Football Moderator
The bolded part of your statement is where I see the problem with this program. I am convinced that the cupboard (on defense) was pretty bare when Butch and company got here. Depth has never been a luxury on this roster, even when BK was here. You can't make a change just to make one if the guy you are bringing in is not good enough to play yet. There are going to be growing pains with this team and while it sucks, and we all hope for the best, we have to be reasonable in our expectations. Let's see how good Tennessee fares in the SEC this year and how we do in the Big East before pushing the panic button. This season has started very much like the season where we lost to OU in the second game of the season did. I am not saying that I am not concerned, but I am willing to withhold judgement until there is a little more of a sample size.
For what it's worth, I don't think we will see another team with a passing game (in terms of skill players at QB and receiver) like Tennessee. I knew they were going to be good and tough to beat, but they were a lot better than I thought they would be. If they play like that, they may be darn good in the SEC this year and that loss may not look as bad.
david aka the TYZ
Well-known member
I actually understand kicking the field goal. We had already been burned on two fourth and ones and had first and goal from the one and were pushed back. Get points on the board. I don't like giving up either but it was clear at that point the game was over. Our defense wasn't going to do anything to stop Tennessee from scoring at will had they made it a close game. We gave our kicker a good chance to kick in a hostile environment.
I think the real issue is the play calling on these fourth and ones and goal line situations. He doesn't want to put the ball in the air and just runs QB sneaks out of the shotgun. It doesn't take much for the defense to sniff us out.
As far as all the negativity, I agree with JasonS. We need to quit hitting the panic button and realize we lost to a big time program on the road. We weren't supposed to win that game and we didn't. The offense showed enough to me that I believe they'll be able to put up some points in Big East play. The defense is suspect, but we won't face an offense as fluid as Tennessee's was probably the rest of the year. Let's see what the next few weeks hold and see if we don't get a little better by time we face our next test. And we really shouldn't worry about next year yet.
I think the real issue is the play calling on these fourth and ones and goal line situations. He doesn't want to put the ball in the air and just runs QB sneaks out of the shotgun. It doesn't take much for the defense to sniff us out.
As far as all the negativity, I agree with JasonS. We need to quit hitting the panic button and realize we lost to a big time program on the road. We weren't supposed to win that game and we didn't. The offense showed enough to me that I believe they'll be able to put up some points in Big East play. The defense is suspect, but we won't face an offense as fluid as Tennessee's was probably the rest of the year. Let's see what the next few weeks hold and see if we don't get a little better by time we face our next test. And we really shouldn't worry about next year yet.
Bearcat_NTS
Well-known member
The point was Butch better win this year, because next year is gonna be brutal. He could be looking at 3 straight losing seasons before he knows what hit him.
couldnt have said it better myself TYZ...i tried to "rep" but i was not allowed
Thegreatone
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I think we can win a lot of games this year still. Next year we have a brutal schedule but I am really excited to see some of the younger guys get another year of experience and the additions of latwan anderson and a very highly regarded class.
Butch is not in danger of losing his job any time soon but he has not hit the ground running in any area other than recruiting talent.
Butch is not in danger of losing his job any time soon but he has not hit the ground running in any area other than recruiting talent.
Good point regarding the recruiting...the atmosphere Jones seems to be building in the football program has to pay dividends soon...he could be blowing smoke (like a recent coach), but Jones motto of "representing the C" makes me proud as an alum and a fan...
Go Bearcats!
rustyroyse
Active member
That last statement might be the problem I am seeing. I think everyone is okay with giving him time but at the same time you can't go out there and not produce. He is a recruiting machine so far but if he can't coach the players he is bringing in here then one of two things is happening. 1) Maybe the players aren't the caliber that they are being ranked or 2)Butch Jones is not a very good coach. I am all for giving him a little time to put this program back on its feet and I am not quite ready to give up on him but in my opinion he has to be on a very short leash.
Kicking a field goal when down that much make no sense at all. You want to enforce a never give up feel to the team. Teams that do that don't kick field goals. Would you have seen Urban Meyer or Bill Belichick do that? No, because they play to win and succeed every second. I feel it is okay to develop the feel of giving it your all and sometimes failing. But the main part is you ALWAYS give your all and that means going for it because you are losing.
The other part about Butch that really bothers me is his sideline presence. You rarely, if at all, see him getting excited about big plays and praising his team. Yet you constantly see him yelling, whether it is at the officials or his players. Pete Carroll and Rex Ryan are the extremes of this but you can tell that their players enjoy them and want to succeed because of it.
The other part about Butch that really bothers me is his sideline presence. You rarely, if at all, see him getting excited about big plays and praising his team. Yet you constantly see him yelling, whether it is at the officials or his players. Pete Carroll and Rex Ryan are the extremes of this but you can tell that their players enjoy them and want to succeed because of it.
JasonS
Football Moderator
Did you get Brian Kelly confused with Butch Jones?
rustyroyse
Active member
I completely agree with both aspects of this post. BJ's sideline presence bothers me as well. It bothered me all last year that everytime you would see him on the sideline his arms were folded and his head was down (I know that it was not all the time but it sure seemed like it). You rarely see him get excited about anything except for the negative.
Actually the whole getting Brian Kelly confused with Butch Jones comment kind of represents what is being said here as well. BK would have gone for it because he does have that mentality and BJ was just OK with getting the points. That my friends is a problem. Would any of you been OK with just kicking a field goal if this game was against WVU, Pitt, or any other BE team? No....the whole idea is to win the game not just get 3 every time. What this says to your team is I have no faith that you can execute a play that will get us a touchdown. If the play calling wasn't awful that might have made the difference as well but it still said, "Nice try guys, lets get the 3 and head on home." Not a great message in my opinion.