Has Mick taken us as far as he can?

[Thegreatone]

When he got here he was faced with one of the worst situations a coach could have.

- A angry fanbase
- 1 scholorship player (who was a JUCO)
- Was required to graduate every player or face NCAA penalties
- 2nd year of transition into the Big East

I give Mick a ton of credit for digging us out of those holes. He has brought in very good talent despite not having much to sell.

I was willing to give Mick 5 years no matter what. I didn't think it would be possible for him to be competitive as soon as he was.

However, we got talent a lot sooner than I anticipated. Expectations shifted and went higher. We are losing a lot of winnable games. Games that we have had leads late into the game. I feel that coaching has a lot to do with losing close game and winnable games.

I know Mick has progressed win totals every year. I know we are getting more and more talent. But, we should be better. Next year we will have some really nice talent. We need to have someone who can coach them.

I will give Mick the rest of this year with my full support. But, he needs to prove something. I need 4 wins and 1 Beast tourny win. If that get us in the tournament great... but that is what I need.

 

[SlamJam]

Tough call for me. He really was put in the most difficult position to win. We could be losing vaughn and LS next year, will that team be good enough to get to the NCAA? If you think it would then no need to fire Mick, give him one more shot. If not, get a new coach and use next year with a new coach.

 

[BearcatAlum1]

Tough call for me. He really was put in the most difficult position to win. We could be losing vaughn and LS next year, will that team be good enough to get to the NCAA? If you think it would then no need to fire Mick, give him one more shot. If not, get a new coach and use next year with a new coach.

I think he gets one more year. I think the administration feels the same way.

 

[TheLivingLegend]

In short yes. The coaching is just not there. Awesome guy, great recruiter but if we are being honest, its time to move forward. Frank Martin!?

However IMO they will grant him one more year. He better create a lance stay dance, and be rocking that everyday.

 

[Thegreatone]

I am not ready to say lets give him another year but I am not ready to fire him yet. So much could still happen...

 

[adrock]

In short yes. The coaching is just not there. Awesome guy, great recruiter but if we are being honest, its time to move forward. Frank Martin!?

However IMO they will grant him one more year. He better create a lance stay dance, and be rocking that everyday.

My patience is also wearing thin, but I'm willing to give him one more year. Mostly because that was the original plan, and because if you project the team's improvement to year 5 using the first 3 complete seasons of Mick's tenure, we're definitely talking about a 20+ win NCAA tournament team. I reserve the right to change my tune after the BEast tournament this year based on the team's performance down the stretch.

Secondly, while Frank Martin would be a great replacement for Mick (if one was needed), what reason do we have to believe he would ever want to come here? We don't pay better than K-State, he has no more loyalty to UC than K-State, our fans don't attend games as well as K-State (at this point), and while the BEast is a better conference than the Big 12, it's not much better. Certainly not worth switching jobs when he's very highly appreciated where he is.

Would we want Frank Martin? Yes...but only in the same way I want Angelina Jolie. Not gonna happen.

 

[Kingsley Court]

Secondly, while Frank Martin would be a great replacement for Mick (if one was needed), what reason do we have to believe he would ever want to come here? We don't pay better than K-State, he has no more loyalty to UC than K-State, our fans don't attend games as well as K-State (at this point), and while the BEast is a better conference than the Big 12, it's not much better. Certainly not worth switching jobs when he's very highly appreciated where he is.

Would we want Frank Martin? Yes...but only in the same way I want Angelina Jolie. Not gonna happen.

Bingo, I'm not sure why some people think that Frank Martin would leave for UC. That, IMO would be a step down from what he's got at Kstate. He would be leaving one of the best home court advantages, and going to a place where the fans barely show up. He's got a good thing going at Kstate.

 

[TheLivingLegend]

Bingo, I'm not sure why some people think that Frank Martin would leave for UC. That, IMO would be a step down from what he's got at Kstate. He would be leaving one of the best home court advantages, and going to a place where the fans barely show up. He's got a good thing going at Kstate.

Being a Big East coach. Thats the only reason at this point. Worth a call.

 

[Kingsley Court]

Worth a call, but not Every Big East job is as desirable as some people like to think. Would it be an excellent hire? Hell yeah it would be, is it realistic, I don't think so.

 

[adrock]

Being a Big East coach. Thats the only reason at this point. Worth a call.

That is the only reason, but only BEast fans think that means as much as we're implying here. In fact, I would contend that being in the BEast would be a detriment to a Big 12 coach's success. This isn't like college football where being in a stronger conference gives you the benefit of the doubt and a better chance at a BCS game. The BEast is so deep that very good teams get left out of the tournament every year because the NCAA refuses to select more than 8 teams from one conference.

Frank could do a very good job here and still get snubbed for the NCAA tournament if, in a given year, we're not as good as Syracuse, WVU, Villanova, G'Town, UConn, Louisville, and Pitt. In fact, that's exactly what's happening to Mick now that I think about it. We're angry because he's not performing at the same level as 7 other coaches that absolutely will be in the Hall of Fame some day.

 

[Thegreatone]

Worth a call, but not Every Big East job is as desirable as some people like to think. Would it be an excellent hire? Hell yeah it would be, is it realistic, I don't think so.

I think it could happen for many reasons. K state is not a traditional basketball school. UC is.

The Big East gives you a chance to compete at the highest level. Frank could recruit anyone in the nation.

He will NOT come though. Too much bad blood from the Huggins situation.

Dont mistake it though, UC is a better job then K-state.

Same reason Huggins left to go to WVU. UC is a better job then WVU too when the right coach is given proper tools.

 

[BearcatAlum1]

I think it could happen for many reasons. K state is not a traditional basketball school. UC is.

The Big East gives you a chance to compete at the highest level. Frank could recruit anyone in the nation.

He will NOT come though. Too much bad blood from the Huggins situation.

Dont mistake it though, UC is a better job then K-state.

Same reason Huggins left to go to WVU. UC is a better job then WVU too when the right coach is given proper tools.

I was going to go into all the reasons that he would not come to UC, but the biggest reason is that we can't give him all the cash monies that K-State has to offer and our Board will not touch anything close to Huggins.

 

[TheFranchise]

I think it could happen for many reasons. K state is not a traditional basketball school. UC is.

The Big East gives you a chance to compete at the highest level. Frank could recruit anyone in the nation.

He will NOT come though. Too much bad blood from the Huggins situation.

Dont mistake it though, UC is a better job then K-state.

Same reason Huggins left to go to WVU. UC is a better job then WVU too when the right coach is given proper tools.

Same reason Huggins left to go to WVU? That had nothing to do with what job was better, it was just Huggins wanting to go home. But other than that, it will never happen with Frank Martin. I wish it would, but it won't.

The name we should get, "Steve Wojciechowski". Yes, I understand he has no head coaching experience, but he has been learning from one of the greatest coaches of all time. He is a former starter for Duke, that will be a big tool in recruiting, high school players will respect that. I would not mind taking a risk on him as a 1st time head coach. He understands the game of basketball, something im not sure Mick fully does. I see a big bright side for him in coaching.

 

[adrock]

Same reason Huggins left to go to WVU? That had nothing to do with what job was better, it was just Huggins wanting to go home. But other than that, it will never happen with Frank Martin. I wish it would, but it won't.

The name we should get, "Steve Wojciechowski". Yes, I understand he has no head coaching experience, but he has been learning from one of the greatest coaches of all time. He is a former starter for Duke, that will be a big tool in recruiting, high school players will respect that. I would not mind taking a risk on him as a 1st time head coach. He understands the game of basketball, something im not sure Mick fully does. I see a big bright side for him in coaching.

I agree with your point about Huggins and WVU...that is not a better job than UC, or now, K-State. The landscape in college basketball is surprisingly flat with only a few exceptions (UK, Duke, UNC, Kansas, etc.) due to the accessibility of the NCAA tournament to every team.

However, while I agree that Steve W)(^&^%ski would be worth talking to, I disagree with your assertion that Mick doesn't fully understand the game. Every time I've listened to the Mick Cronin show or a post-game presser, the guy talks in technical terms that (to me) clearly exhibit a thorough understanding of the game. I don't think Mick's problem is due to his knowledge of x's and o's, so to speak. It's a motivational problem.

 

[ready2go]

If Mick knew his x's and o's we would have prepared for the zone of Syracuse a little better. Passing the ball around the 3 point line until the shot clock reaches 5 seconds is not how to beat a zone. It's not just that game either. Half the time Mick is unaware of exactly what defense the oppsosing team is in. Have you noticed the amount of times analyst comment on the fact that UC looks lost on offense. Now the first half is somewhat acceptable. However where are the halftime adjustments??? Our offense is flat out frustrating to watch.

Defensively...How many open 3 point shots do teams get on us?? How many easy lay-ups?? It seems teams get the ball in way to easy which opens up easy jumpers or cutters to the basket.

To say his knowledge of x's and o's is even good is an over statement. Simply stating the problems of the team is not coaching. How do we fix those problems Mick? Time to stop talking about it and acting on it. Analyst know a lot about x's and o's, but that does not make them good coaches. (Digger, Dicky V, Fran)

 

[adrock]

To say his knowledge of x's and o's is even good is an over statement. Simply stating the problems of the team is not coaching. How do we fix those problems Mick? Time to stop talking about it and acting on it. Analyst know a lot about x's and o's, but that does not make them good coaches. (Digger, Dicky V, Fran)

Like I said, the guy knows x's and o's. You're correct that stating the problems of the team is not coaching...and I never said or implied that it was. Stating the problems of the team in the way he does it though demonstrates a thorough knowledge of the game. He knows what the problems are, and he knows the solutions...he just can't get the players to execute those solutions properly.

Just to be clear, I don't think Mick is doing a great job...it's just that I know it has nothing to do with his basketball knowledge.

Also, Digger and Fran were good coaches.

 

[BearcatAlum1]

Analyst know a lot about x's and o's, but that does not make them good coaches. (Digger, Dicky V, Fran)

I don't consider Dicky V to be very knowledgeable. He is more of a "hype man."

That isn't to say that he doesn't have some bball knowledge, but he rarely talks Xs and Os like Bilas, Fran, Knight and even Doris Burke.

 

[swg]

He certainly is very knowledgable about the kids at UNC and Duke.

 

[BearcatAlum1]

He certainly is very knowledgable about the kids at UNC and Duke.

Hahahahhahahaha. Agreed.

He is such a UNC/Duke a$$ kisser.

I remember when he was ranting and raving about UNC earlier this year. He "guaranteed" that UNC would only get better as the season progressed and would be extremely dangerous come March Madness. "You better beat them early, because they're going to be absolutely lethal later in the year."

What a deusche!

 

[ready2go]

Like I said, the guy knows x's and o's. You're correct that stating the problems of the team is not coaching...and I never said or implied that it was. Stating the problems of the team in the way he does it though demonstrates a thorough knowledge of the game. He knows what the problems are, and he knows the solutions...he just can't get the players to execute those solutions properly.

Just to be clear, I don't think Mick is doing a great job...it's just that I know it has nothing to do with his basketball knowledge.

Also, Digger and Fran were good coaches.[/QUOT

I'm sayin I disagree with the fact that he knows his x's and o's. Passing the ball around the 3 point line between two players against a zone is abc's, elementary play to be clear.

And if you feel that he does know x's and o's, knowing and teaching are two completely different things.

Not to mention being a motivator is part of being a coach. Players must buy in.