Kobe is Average.

BearcatTalk

Help Support BearcatTalk:

TheLivingLegend said:
Your drunk.. No one is touching the bulls.

Your argument of having Pippen on the team is weak. Look at the list of NBA champions.. The celtics had 3 greats, the spurs had two, the heat had two blah blah blah. The difference lies here, Jordan was receiving all the doubles... Shaq was receiving all the doubles. It is what it is, Kobe is an average played with a ring.

"Lakers with Kobe and Shaq" - hmm cant seem to remember this, this must have been before Kobe bitched and demanded he be traded because he was #2 when he should have been thanking the big man.
Click to expand...

...please tell me the two greats the Spurs had? Kobe has 4 rings.
 
Jordan played in a water downed era. You can deny this all you want but it is the truth. Kobe is facing much better competition.

Jordan is an old angry dude that no one likes anymore. Kobe is still winning at the highest level and is closing in on Jordans ring totals.
 
Thegreatone said:
Jordan played in a water downed era. You can deny this all you want but it is the truth. Kobe is facing much better competition.

Jordan is an old angry dude that no one likes anymore. Kobe is still winning at the highest level and is closing in on Jordans ring totals.
Click to expand...

This is just a crazy comment! The NBA was at it's best in the 80s and 90s. You had Magic, Bird, Kareem, Jordan, Pippen, Stockton, Malone, Barkley, Reggie Miller, Hakeem, Ewing, Kemp, McHale, Isaiah Thomas, and that is just off the top of my head. Here is a simple question to ask yourself. Which USA basketball team would you rather have, the 1992 Dream Team or the 2008 Redeem Team? If you are answering honestly, you would say the 1992 Dream Team without even thinking about it. There were more, better players when Jordan played than there are right now. The talent level is good now but it was great in the 80s and 90s. Maybe you are too young to appreciate it?
 
When Jordan won is titles it was the mid 90's.

Bird, Thomas, EMJ, Kareem were all old.

Jordans prime competition was Reggie Miller, Pat Ewing, Malone and David Robinson.

Reggie was the only one at his position. If you switch Jordan and Reggie on those teams I believe Reggie would have more titles than MJ Jr
 
Your drunk. The league was much more physical. Now a days DPOY are people who rebound the most. Get real, toughen up. Jordan scored at will against top notch defenders and talent. Kobe plays against lesser talent, no hand checks, and still needs 30 shots to score 30 points.
 
JasonS said:
This is just a crazy comment! The NBA was at it's best in the 80s and 90s. You had Magic, Bird, Kareem, Jordan, Pippen, Stockton, Malone, Barkley, Reggie Miller, Hakeem, Ewing, Kemp, McHale, Isaiah Thomas, and that is just off the top of my head. Here is a simple question to ask yourself. Which USA basketball team would you rather have, the 1992 Dream Team or the 2008 Redeem Team? If you are answering honestly, you would say the 1992 Dream Team without even thinking about it. There were more, better players when Jordan played than there are right now. The talent level is good now but it was great in the 80s and 90s. Maybe you are too young to appreciate it?
Click to expand...

Exactly. GreatOne go back to filing paperwork because basketball knowledge is clearly not ur forte.
 
Thegreatone said:
When Jordan won is titles it was the mid 90's.

Bird, Thomas, EMJ, Kareem were all old.

Jordans prime competition was Reggie Miller, Pat Ewing, Malone and David Robinson.

Reggie was the only one at his position. If you switch Jordan and Reggie on those teams I believe Reggie would have more titles than MJ Jr
Click to expand...

How quickly you forget that Jordan won titles in 1991, 1992, and 1993 in addition to 1996, 1997, and 1998. Hakeem and the Rockets won in 1994 and 1995. The Bulls beat Magic and the Lakers in 1991 (and had to beat Isaiah and the Pistons to get there). They beat Clyde Drexler and the Trailblazers in 1992 and Barkley and the Suns in 1993. Hakeem was the Finals MVP in 1994 and 1995. The Bulls beat Seattle and Kemp in 1996 and beat Stockton and Malone and the Jazz in 1997 and 1998.

Kareem was definitely aging when Jordan reached his prime. Bird was still relevant until back problems caught up with him in the 90s. Isaiah was every bit in his prime when Jordan was. Drexler was in his prime as well. Don't forget about Dominique Wilkins (a top 10 player in 87, 88, 91, and 93) or James Worthy (top 15 player in 90 and 91). Gary Payton was a great player in the 90s. Joe Dumars and Chris Mullen were also great players at the time Jordan played.

If you want to say Reggie Miller was the only one that played Jordan's position you would be foolish and wrong. But using that logic that it has to be only the same position, who does Kobe have at SG? Dwayne Wade and that is basically it. Melo is a SF. LeBron is a SF. Durant is a SF. Paul Pierce is a SF. Chris Paul is a PG.

And do you realize what Jordan did at age 36 in the NBA Finals essentially by himself? He scored 41 of the Bulls first 83 points against the Jazz in Game 6 of the Finals when Pippen was battling a bad back and was basically useless. He then proceeds to (while down 3 and only 40 seconds left) go coast to coast for a layup, strips Malone and then drains the game winner. If Kobe or LeBron are able to do this at age 36, playing the third consecutive 100 game plus season and literally without any help against a better team, then maybe I will think about putting them at the MJ level. Seriously go back and watch games from MJ's career and you will learn to re-appreciate him again.
 
JasonS said:
How quickly you forget that Jordan won titles in 1991, 1992, and 1993 in addition to 1996, 1997, and 1998. Hakeem and the Rockets won in 1994 and 1995. The Bulls beat Magic and the Lakers in 1991 (and had to beat Isaiah and the Pistons to get there). They beat Clyde Drexler and the Trailblazers in 1992 and Barkley and the Suns in 1993. Hakeem was the Finals MVP in 1994 and 1995. The Bulls beat Seattle and Kemp in 1996 and beat Stockton and Malone and the Jazz in 1997 and 1998.

Kareem was definitely aging when Jordan reached his prime. Bird was still relevant until back problems caught up with him in the 90s. Isaiah was every bit in his prime when Jordan was. Drexler was in his prime as well. Don't forget about Dominique Wilkins (a top 10 player in 87, 88, 91, and 93) or James Worthy (top 15 player in 90 and 91). Gary Payton was a great player in the 90s. Joe Dumars and Chris Mullen were also great players at the time Jordan played.

If you want to say Reggie Miller was the only one that played Jordan's position you would be foolish and wrong. But using that logic that it has to be only the same position, who does Kobe have at SG? Dwayne Wade and that is basically it. Melo is a SF. LeBron is a SF. Durant is a SF. Paul Pierce is a SF. Chris Paul is a PG.

And do you realize what Jordan did at age 36 in the NBA Finals essentially by himself? He scored 41 of the Bulls first 83 points against the Jazz in Game 6 of the Finals when Pippen was battling a bad back and was basically useless. He then proceeds to (while down 3 and only 40 seconds left) go coast to coast for a layup, strips Malone and then drains the game winner. If Kobe or LeBron are able to do this at age 36, playing the third consecutive 100 game plus season and literally without any help against a better team, then maybe I will think about putting them at the MJ level. Seriously go back and watch games from MJ's career and you will learn to re-appreciate him again.
Click to expand...

well said
 
Every team in the west playoffs has atleast 50 wins. (If OKC wins last game). Let me repeat myself- 8 teams in the west have 50+ wins. Throw in the 4 more in the East that have atleast 50 wins. 12 teams in the League have 50+ wins. Has that ever happened before? It may have but I cant imagine it happening many times. And I would bet you could count on one finger how many times one whole side was teams with 50+ wins.

EVERY TEAM IN THE WEST PLAYOFFS HAS 50+WINS!!! And you guys think it was tougher to win in Jordans Era? please. With foriegn players the depth in the league is much higher. Show me a time when 12 teams in the playoffs had at least 50 wins.

Also- in Kobes Era: Shaq (A top 5 center all time- if not top 3) Duncan (many people already see him as the best 4 to ever play the game--Kevin Garnet will be top 5 PF to play as well) Lebron (enough said-will easily be a top 10 player-probably top 5- ever to play the game). Himeself-which will also go down as a top 10 player. Throw in Wade,Anthony, Dirk- Jason Kidd (I believe 4th in NBA history in tripple doubles). The league has JUST as much, if not more, talent as it did with MJ. The difference is- the 2nd players are much better now then they ever were. 12 teams in the NBA with 50+ wins is simply amazing.
 
Last edited:
First off, naming the top 10 guys from each era is ridiculous. Is someone really going to argue that because the dream team would have beat this past USA team that the dream teams era was tougher to win? Please thats a horrendous argument to make. There has never been as much depth as there is in the league today. Thats simple. Give me the top 15 teams from each era, and I would think that this recent era would be above 500.
 
Kingsley Court said:
First off, naming the top 10 guys from each era is ridiculous. Is someone really going to argue that because the dream team would have beat this past USA team that the dream teams era was tougher to win? Please thats a horrendous argument to make. There has never been as much depth as there is in the league today. Thats simple. Give me the top 15 teams from each era, and I would think that this recent era would be above 500.
Click to expand...

You're joking right? Let'e look at this year. Do you really think this Cavs team (best in the league this year) would last more than 4 or 5 games in a 7 game series against the Championship Bulls teams from the 90s or the Celtics and Lakers teams from the 80s? The fact is that there is a lot of mediocrity in the league now. There are still great players but there aren't great teams anymore. That's why so many teams are near the 50 win plateau in the West. Of course, you also have teams under .500 in the East fighting for a playoff spot.
 
JasonS said:
You're joking right? Let'e look at this year. Do you really think this Cavs team (best in the league this year) would last more than 4 or 5 games in a 7 game series against the Championship Bulls teams from the 90s or the Celtics and Lakers teams from the 80s? The fact is that there is a lot of mediocrity in the league now. There are still great players but there aren't great teams anymore. That's why so many teams are near the 50 win plateau in the West. Of course, you also have teams under .500 in the East fighting for a playoff spot.
Click to expand...

...Thats 1 game. Lets look at the other 14 games. No question this years 15 would still win 8 games-proving the depth of the league is better then it ever has been. The 50 win plateau is impressive-dont deny that. Also- when Lebron is making his jump shot/3's he is literally ungaurdable. I think they would easily go 5-6 games against the championship bulls.

The top 15 teams in the league this year:
1. Cleveland 61-20
2.Orlando 58-23
3. Lakers 57-24
4. MAVS 54-27
5. Jazz 53-28
6. Suns 53-28
7. Denver 53-29
8. Atlanta 52-29
9. Portland 50-31
10. Boston 50-31
11. Spurs 50-31
12 Thunder 49-32
13 Miami 46- 36
14 Milwaukee 45-36
15. Charlotte 44-37.

There is a good chance the top 15 teams in the league will have 45+ wins. 12 of those 15 will have 50+ wins. Very impressive.
 
Last edited:
DontMissHim said:
...Thats 1 game. Lets look at the other 14 games. No question this years 15 would still win 8 games-proving the depth of the league is better then it ever has been. The 50 win plateau is impressive-dont deny that. Also- when Lebron is making his jump shot/3's he is literally ungaurdable. I think they would easily go 5-6 games against the championship bulls.

The top 15 teams in the league this year:
1. Cleveland 61-20
2.Orlando 58-23
3. Lakers 57-24
4. MAVS 54-27
5. Jazz 53-28
6. Suns 53-28
7. Denver 53-29
8. Atlanta 52-29
9. Portland 50-31
10. Boston 50-31
11. Spurs 50-31
12 Thunder 49-32
13 Miami 46- 36
14 Milwaukee 45-36
15. Charlotte 44-37.

There is a good chance the top 15 teams in the league will have 45+ wins. 12 of those 15 will have 50+ wins. Very impressive.
Click to expand...

You are proving my point about mediocrity in the NBA. There are no great teams. That is why everyone has about the same record save for about 3 teams. In 1991, there were 6 teams with at least 55 wins. In 1996, 3 teams eclipsed the 60 win mark and one team, the Bulls, ended up with the best record ever. All I am saying, is looking at records does not prove depth in the league. It can prove that or it can prove mediocrity. The NFL has taken parity to the extreme. Would you say the 1990s Cowboys, Bills, and 49ers weren't as good as the Colts or Steelers or Patriots of this decade? Of course not. Those teams were WAY more complete than any champion we have seen this decade. The NFL decided that they didn't want dynasties anymore and instead wanted each team to feel like they had a chance at the start of the season. The NBA is not too far from virtually having every team finish around 40-45 wins. The NBA's version of 8 and 8.
 
Vidal_Hazelton7 So I'm at my homie a-Robe crib and on the internet I jus found that Micheal Jordan jus stated that kobe is better then Lebron..
16 minutes ago via UberTwitter


It's official.
Now shoot me for entertaining the thought of extending this thread.
 
I still think LeBron has the best skill set combined with athleticism this league has ever seen. His quiting in the playoffs this year has proven that Kobe is still the best player. I have come back around on Kobe since the Cleveland LeBrons forgot to show up against a Celtics team that was good but not great. If LeBron wanted it as much as Kobe, he would be the best player in the league hands down. The problem is he doesn't. For that reason alone, I think Kobe still reigns supreme as the best player in this league. I think LeBron could have gone down as the best player ever. Now that he is going to be Scottie Pippen to DWade's Jordan, he won't even be mentioned in the top 10 of all time when his career is done. I hate seeing players not get the most out of their potential. Oh well.
 
Watching the Lebron saga has really made me appreciate Kobe Bryant. He may be the last of a dying breed. A breed that consisted of Jordan, Bird, and Johnson. Kobe and these guys thrived on challenges and competition. Yes, the had good supporting staffs, but I cannot see any of them getting together in an offseason deciding to play on one team just to guarantee a championship. Did Jordan want to join the best team in the NBA when he came back from retirement? No, he joined the Wizards. Karl Malone didnt try to sign with the Bulls. Kobe is the best closer in the game, ahead of Wade. Kobe has matured over the years, not only as a player, but as a professional, which is something Lebron is going to need to do in order to restore his legacy. I cannot stand the Lakers, but after all this stuff with Lebron and Miami, I hope Kobe wins another...
 
well said. Karl Malone may not be the best example as he did try to chase a title with the Lakers but your point is valid. Superstars in the 80s and 90s (and before) wanted to win a title as the man. They didn't try to chase titles like LeBron is doing. Look at how many guys didn't get titles because of the Bulls of the 90s.
 
JasonS said:
well said. Karl Malone may not be the best example as he did try to chase a title with the Lakers but your point is valid. Superstars in the 80s and 90s (and before) wanted to win a title as the man. They didn't try to chase titles like LeBron is doing. Look at how many guys didn't get titles because of the Bulls of the 90s.
Click to expand...
good call on malone. i totally forgot about the lakers attempt. you got my point and actually explained it better. thanks.
 

Similar threads

T
Volume Shooter Clutch? Think again.
Replies
7
Views
3K
TheLivingLegend
T
K
Rivals Big East Preview
Replies
4
Views
2K
psax889906
P
Back
Top