Memphis Round 2

[sedziobs]

they are not pressing to create turnovers. they're pressing so teams are starting their offense at 15 seconds.

I think we're pressing to create turnovers. We trap aggressively. This isn't the Cronin 1-2-2 zone press that simply prevents passes into the frontcourt.

 

[cincrulz11]

I think Harvey and MAW are two are our best defenders. Harvey hasn’t been fouling as much and I actually prefer when he’s on the court.

as harvey's ankle gets better his defense is getting better. he had to grab a lot earlier in the season, probably because he wasn't as quick as he's used to being.

 

[cincrulz11]

I think we're pressing to create turnovers. We trap aggressively. This isn't the Cronin 1-2-2 zone press that simply prevents passes into the frontcourt.

last night was as aggressive as its been, particularly in the 2nd half.


teams seem beat our press relatively easily, but rarely for buckets. its almost always just to get to midcourt. maybe thats not the design for our press, but that sure seems to be the way its working.

 

[cincyguy13]

its still 30th over our last 10 games (offense is 37 over last 10).


defense has been bad in 3 of our last 10 games, temple, wichita st, and memphis.


it really wasn't bad vs uconn, 95.5 AdjD is not bad (would be 70 if that was our number for the season)

I agree. I think people are used to the style of play they’ve seen for the last 15 years. There are other ways to win. I would love to have an elite defense but sometimes you don’t have the roster. Just like sometimes you don’t have the shooters or the size. You still have to figure out how to win. It may look different

 

[sirthought]

I just keep thinking about how if this was the team UC started the season with they would likely be top 25.

Despite the talent difference, they really with OSU until the end.

Bowling Green likely would have not happened like it did.

Xavier might still be a toss up, but who knows with their offensive struggles.

I could see Iowa going with a couple differences from today's team.

Some of these games feel like a lifetime ago.

 

[Loser Mentality]

Great Comeback!!!

(Next Year List) Williams, MAW, Harvey need to watch all of Davenport's Offensive minutes.

Last night Davenport showed me he totally grasps Brannen's offense. No hesitation on shot selection on open shots. Yeah he didn't make them, but that's not the point. If your open in the context of the offense, and the open shot is there, shoot the ..... ball.

Williams mid range shot is damn near gone, only because he's running the offensive set, and bypassing open looks. The subs did the same thing last night, run the offense, but not yet confident enough in their own offensive ability to make plays out of the offensive sets.

Not Davenport. (Last Night's Sample size) Reminds me of the NKU games from last year, his team got shots up while running the offense.

Don't get me wrong the reserves looked crisp running the play, but totally lost on who should score. Shoot that rock, it will only open this offense up more.

 

[sirthought]

Yep, actually my biggest head shake with Harvey was at least twice he passed up on a shot late in the clock and passed it to...Diarra. Why hand it off to the worst shooter on the team at the end of the clock?

I'm sure that will come up in reviews. LOL I wonder if he just loses control of where he's at on the floor, because I bet he can carve into traffic if he really wants to. Adams-Woods seems to have the courage to do that, but not as big and strong as Harvey to make the finish always.

Otherwise, I really like him on the floor and think he has shades of Cumberland in how physical he plays. I think he could become a good one in time.

 

[waterhead]

Yep, actually my biggest head shake with Harvey was at least twice he passed up on a shot late in the clock and passed it to...Diarra. Why hand it off to the worst shooter on the team at the end of the clock?

I'm sure that will come up in reviews. LOL I wonder if he just loses control of where he's at on the floor, because I bet he can carve into traffic if he really wants to. Adams-Woods seems to have the courage to do that, but not as big and strong as Harvey to make the finish always.

Otherwise, I really like him on the floor and think he has shades of Cumberland in how physical he plays. I think he could become a good one in time.

Yah...we had a handful of shot clock violations that were head scratchers. With the crowd helping by counting down that kind of stuff should be a rarity. Just put the ball on the floor and head for the hoop and maybe pickup a foul. We bailed them out a couple times with late in the clock fouls.

 

[cincrulz11]

Yah...we had a handful of shot clock violations that were head scratchers. With the crowd helping by counting down that kind of stuff should be a rarity. Just put the ball on the floor and head for the hoop and maybe pickup a foul. We bailed them out a couple times with late in the clock fouls.

honestly some shot clock violations could be better than chucking up a really awful shot that turns into a fast break lay up the other way.

 

[waterhead]

It's hard to put a value on what Trevon has done since the first Memphis game. I am sure this game was marked on his personal calendar. He has slowed his game way down and under control. His ability to make 3's now is HUGE! This game was redemption for him.

I was thinking he should just stop shooting the 3 ball until very late clock. But he has proven me wrong and it's a major development for us.

He is one of the toughest MEN in the league and he might just be the toughest. I didn't think I would see the day he puts up 50 points and over 30 boards in back to back big games for us. He was a guy that was more apt to shrink in the big games...but not lately. He's a bonafied leader and the team (especially the frosh) are learning a lot from him. He's always talking out there and he doesn't seem flustered anymore.

You can tell he wants his last year not to end without a trip back to the dance. He is absolutely doing everything he can out there.

 

[cincyguy13]

It's hard to put a value on what Trevon has done since the first Memphis game. I am sure this game was marked on his personal calendar. He has slowed his game way down and under control. His ability to make 3's now is HUGE! This game was redemption for him.

I was thinking he should just stop shooting the 3 ball until very late clock. But he has proven me wrong and it's a major development for us.

He is one of the toughest MEN in the league and he might just be the toughest. I didn't think I would see the day he puts up 50 points and over 30 boards in back to back big games for us. He was a guy that was more apt to shrink in the big games...but not lately. He's a bonafied leader and the team (especially the frosh) are learning a lot from him. He's always talking out there and he doesn't seem flustered anymore.

You can tell he wants his last year not to end without a trip back to the dance. He is absolutely doing everything he can out there.

I love Tre and what he’s been doing. I do think he benefits from teams selling out to stop Vogt and Jarron. Its not a coincidence that as soon as Vogt and Jarron get shut down, he goes off. But that’s what he should do. Happy for him.

 

[waterhead]

I love Tre and what he’s been doing. I do think he benefits from teams selling out to stop Vogt and Jarron. Its not a coincidence that as soon as Vogt and Jarron get shut down, he goes off. But that’s what he should do. Happy for him.

Jarron and Vogt have been getting attention in most every game. Tre was being left open most of the year due to poor shooting. He’s heating up now and stopped shooting a lot of long 2 point jumpers. He’s going in the lane under control. And crushing boards

 

[cincyguy13]

Jarron and Vogt have been getting attention in most every game. Tre was being left open most of the year due to poor shooting. He’s heating up now and stopped shooting a lot of long 2 point jumpers. He’s going in the lane under control. And crushing boards

I think the game plans have changed recently against Vogt and Jarron. Lot more double teams for Vogt since the Houston game. Which he didn’t handle well. They are Also being a lot more physical with him. Same with Jarron. Unless Jarron is simply choosing not to shoot and make shots. Something we haven’t seen in the 4 years he’s been here.

 

[sirthought]

Looking into the future, I predict that Vogt is going to continue to add strength and muscle and will better prepare for that kind of pressure.

He's shown so much potential this season, and with one year left to show pro scouts how he can contribute...well it's a narrow window for him to go to today's NBA but he could increase his chances with a bit more strength and shot selection.

 

[justinhub2003]

Looking into the future, I predict that Vogt is going to continue to add strength and muscle and will better prepare for that kind of pressure.

He's shown so much potential this season, and with one year left to show pro scouts how he can contribute...well it's a narrow window for him to go to today's NBA but he could increase his chances with a bit more strength and shot selection.

I seriously doubt Chris Vogt is ever an nba player. But he could be a great European player.

He’s just not agile enough for the most athletic dudes on the planet in the nba.

 

[skyblade]

I seriously doubt Chris Vogt is ever an nba player. But he could be a great European player.

He’s just not agile enough for the most athletic dudes on the planet in the nba.

Agreed, Vogt is nowhere close to being an NBA player. He lacks the agility and athleticism to play in the NBA, not to mention he can't make a jumper.

He will play in Europe, but even there his lack of a jump shot and lack of athleticism will limit him.

His defense has improved, but he still needs to get better. His rebounding is not good for a guy his size. Being an excellent finisher will only get him so far.

 

[skyblade]

As an example of just how far Vogt is from playing in the NBA, look at Udoka Azubuike of Kansas. Azubuike is a bigger, longer, more athletic version of Vogt. Like Vogt, he excels at finishing around the rim, with a 75% FG percentage. He averages more points than Vogt (18.5/40 to 17.3/40) and more blocks (3.8/40 to 2.2/40).

Unlike Vogt, he rebounds well (14 RBs/40 minutes compared to Vogt's 8.5 rebounds/40) and is long and athletic and defends well. The only areas where Vogt is better than him are TO rate and FT shooting.

Despite all that, Azubuike is projected as a mid-second round NBA draft pick. That just shows the value the NBA puts on shooting ability and ability to handle the ball. Because of his size, length and athleticism, an NBA team will pick Azubuike and try to develop him. But Vogt lacks the length and athleticism to make an NBA think he is worth trying to develop.

 

[cincyguy13]

As an example of just how far Vogt is from playing in the NBA, look at Udoka Azubuike of Kansas. Azubuike is a bigger, longer, more athletic version of Vogt. Like Vogt, he excels at finishing around the rim, with a 75% FG percentage. He averages more points than Vogt (18.5/40 to 17.3/40) and more blocks (3.8/40 to 2.2/40).

Unlike Vogt, he rebounds well (14 RBs/40 minutes compared to Vogt's 8.5 rebounds/40) and is long and athletic and defends well. The only areas where Vogt is better than him are TO rate and FT shooting.

Despite all that, Azubuike is projected as a mid-second round NBA draft pick. That just shows the value the NBA puts on shooting ability and ability to handle the ball. Because of his size, length and athleticism, an NBA team will pick Azubuike and try to develop him. But Vogt lacks the length and athleticism to make an NBA think he is worth trying to develop.

I agree Vogt isn’t even close to an nba player. I also don’t except him to improve that much next year. He could improve his passing but everything else he is very limited. I do think he’s a good stop gap until brannen can find a big. Which was always his purpose anyway. I like that he plays hard and seems like a great teammate

 

[Alum2013]

I agree Vogt isn’t even close to an nba player. I also don’t except him to improve that much next year. He could improve his passing but everything else he is very limited. I do think he’s a good stop gap until brannen can find a big. Which was always his purpose anyway. I like that he plays hard and seems like a great teammate

Agreed. Vogt has no chance at the NBA. That said he's is good college center and could be a pretty great college center by improving a little in a few areas which I think he's capable of

 

[skyblade]

I agree Vogt isn’t even close to an nba player. I also don’t except him to improve that much next year. He could improve his passing but everything else he is very limited. I do think he’s a good stop gap until brannen can find a big. Which was always his purpose anyway. I like that he plays hard and seems like a great teammate

Yeah, Vogt's ceiling isn't much higher than where he is currently at. Even in Europe (where he should play) not being able to shoot is going to make it hard on him. He's been better than expected and is a good stop gap guy.

I'm curious about what Brannen plans in the future. When Brannen came here there was a lot of talk about going to position-less basketball and playing smaller but faster and spreading the floor with five shooters. Is Vogt a sign that Brannen prefers to play with a more traditional big man, or is Vogt just a stop gap and Brannen will go with a different type of center in the future?

As you all know, I prefer the athletic big men, especially if we are going to play the fast paced style Brannen says we will. Brannen hasn't added a center to next years class yet, but we should see the answer by spring based on who he recruits.

I don't think Vogt will improve much next year. I can't see him improving that much on defense and his shooting form is so ugly it would likely take years of work for him to add a jumper. He could improve at rebounding if he can improve at identifying where the ball is going and pursuing the ball. I see him as a slightly above average AAC center, with potential to become a good AAC center.