New Coach

[Cin City]

 

[justinhub2003]

This is just so weird.


We don't do many basketball coaching searches at Cincinnati. And I'm not one bit impressed with the canidates so far.

NVE wins the press conference, but does he lose the games and tarnish his legacy?


If we're going to truly move forward, lets make a clean break from both the Huggins & Cronin era.

And yet, I don't see a single HR hire in this whole list.



I'm in a bit of a haze. Doesn't feel real at the moment. The chances that our new coach makes the tourney 9 years in a row and wins at the level Mick has won at, is going to be nearly impossible.

Who ever it is.. will be facing off against an new and improved AAC that has some damn good coaches. Realistic Chance we go from top of the league to middl e in the drop of a hat and that scares the shit out of me.

 

[cincyalum2014]

I'll give up on the program if they do that. How is that any different than the Andy Kennedy interim that almost killed this program. Don't recruit for 2 years? Sounds like a plan, Jan.

agreed bud

 

[cincrulz11]

This is just so weird.


We don't do many basketball coaching searches at Cincinnati. And I'm not one bit impressed with the canidates so far.

can you honestly say in your heart of hearts that when we hired mick his resume was far superior than many of the potential candidates we are looking at now?


the program is in a much better spot thanks to mick. the next hire won't have nearly as difficult of a job.

 

[the_one_32]

The main reason I want NVE as the next head coach is, I'm fairly confident he will bring in a class of player that will be better than what Mick brought in. He is going to recruit at a high level. If the players are of higher talent it will be easier for him to coach. If it fails, at least you gave it a shot with a high profile former player who recruited well. If it works, you have vaulted the program to another level and made it way more interesting to casual fans.

 

[Alum2013]

I'm not really sure where all the talk of NVE not having experience is coming from. He has been in the coaching realm for almost 10 years now, at the college and NBA level. We obviously don't know how good Penny Hardaway will be but he coached HS for 2 years and got the Memphis job.

Just based on reputation and 13 years of NBA playing experience he's probably going to have a better chance at getting better recruits.

 

[cincycpaw]

I'm not really sure where all the talk of NVE not having experience is coming from. He has been in the coaching realm for almost 10 years now, at the college and NBA level. We obviously don't know how good Penny Hardaway will be but he coached HS for 2 years and got the Memphis job.

Just based on reputation and 13 years of NBA playing experience he's probably going to have a better chance at getting better recruits.

I think you have to talk to NVE. You ask him for his plan for assistant coaches....you ask him a lot of questions surrounding recruiting. I'm not sold on him yet as currently I think I'd slot him below some longshots (Pitino, Matta) and below a highly regarded Mid-Major (my picks on these seem to be changing a lot, hour by hour, so no idea who I'd place at the top of that list yet).

But you speak to NVE and if he is able to blow you away, perhaps you take a shot. He better come prepared for that conversation though.

 

[justinhub2003]

can you honestly say in your heart of hearts that when we hired mick his resume was far superior than many of the potential candidates we are looking at now?


the program is in a much better spot thanks to mick. the next hire won't have nearly as difficult of a job.

I think it will be tough for a new coach moving into this level though.

The AAC could be a 4 bid league again next season and Cincinnati might not be one of those teams.


I know this.... If UC retains all its players And we still miss the tourney next season, I will be really upset.
And if UCLA makes the tourney in year 1 and we don't, it will hurt that much more.




As for Mick... It was a much easier hire, he had worked with Huggins & Pitino. He had graduated from here and had familiarity with the culture at Cincinnati.

These other guys are complete unknowns. if we make the wrong hire, this will set us back years. We have to be a top 4 team in the AAC every single year. If we're not, we are nothing in basketball.

 

[cincyguy13]

This is just so weird.


We don't do many basketball coaching searches at Cincinnati. And I'm not one bit impressed with the canidates so far.

NVE wins the press conference, but does he lose the games and tarnish his legacy?


If we're going to truly move forward, lets make a clean break from both the Huggins & Cronin era.

And yet, I don't see a single HR hire in this whole list.



I'm in a bit of a haze. Doesn't feel real at the moment. The chances that our new coach makes the tourney 9 years in a row and wins at the level Mick has won at, is going to be nearly impossible.

Who ever it is.. will be facing off against an new and improved AAC that has some damn good coaches. Realistic Chance we go from top of the league to middl e in the drop of a hat and that scares the shit out of me.

I get your thinking. The unknown is always uncomfortable but to think Mick is the only person that can succeed at this job is insane. There are a lot of good coaches out there. Most of them no one has heard of or are "unproven". Let's give the administration and coach a chance before we start freaking out.

 

[skyblade]

I'm not really sure where all the talk of NVE not having experience is coming from. He has been in the coaching realm for almost 10 years now, at the college and NBA level. We obviously don't know how good Penny Hardaway will be but he coached HS for 2 years and got the Memphis job.

Just based on reputation and 13 years of NBA playing experience he's probably going to have a better chance at getting better recruits.

The problem is that you don't just walk up to a recruit and get him. Coaches have multiple year relationships with HS coaches and often with the players they recruit before that player even makes it to campus. They have whole networks that help them decide who to target and who help them build their case to the player. Penny only coached for a few years, but he had the networks and relationships well built, especially in the Memphis area.

NVE has none of that. He's been in the NBA for years and I doubt he knows many people in the AAU and HS level. He'd have to rely heavily on getting assistant coaches who are good recruiters. Having NBA experience isn't going to overcome that. Recruits don't come knocking just because you are a former NBA player. In the AAC, Johnny Dawkins at UCF played 9 seasons in the NBA and he's not recruiting the same caliper of players as Marshall and Sampson.

 

[cincyguy13]

I think it will be tough for a new coach moving into this level though.

The AAC could be a 4 bid league again next season and Cincinnati might not be one of those teams.


I know this.... If UC retains all its players And we still miss the tourney next season, I will be really upset.
And if UCLA makes the tourney in year 1 and we don't, it will hurt that much more.




As for Mick... It was a much easier hire, he had worked with Huggins & Pitino. He had graduated from here and had familiarity with the culture at Cincinnati.

These other guys are complete unknowns. if we make the wrong hire, this will set us back years. We have to be a top 4 team in the AAC every single year. If we're not, we are nothing in basketball.

What do you want to do? I am honestly curious. He left.

Also, Tony Bennett went into a conference with Duke and Carolina and won. Bo Ryan came from D2 and won in the Big 10. Good coaches win in any conference. My point is, you get a good coach, the rest will take care of it's self. Whether they can to that, time will tell.

 

[cincyalum2014]

The problem is that you don't just walk up to a recruit and get him. Coaches have multiple year relationships with HS coaches and often with the players they recruit before that player even makes it to campus. They have whole networks that help them decide who to target and who help them build their case to the player. Penny only coached for a few years, but he had the networks and relationships well built, especially in the Memphis area.

NVE has none of that. He's been in the NBA for years and I doubt he knows many people in the AAU and HS level. He'd have to rely heavily on getting assistant coaches who are good recruiters. Having NBA experience isn't going to overcome that. Recruits don't come knocking just because you are a former NBA player. In the AAC, Johnny Dawkins at UCF played 9 seasons in the NBA and he's not recruiting the same caliper of players as Marshall and Sampson.

Thank you, I don't exactly see top recruits lining up to play for Patrick Ewing at Georgetown, lets also look at Chris Mullin, he was a St. Johns alum, former NBA guy, no HC experience and we see how that turned out, he "mutually" parted ways with St Johns which means they said resign so it looks better for you. Just because you're an NBA guy doesn't mean kids want to come play for you. I understand the NBA assistant coaching experience and all of that but lets be real if his name wasn't Nick Van Exel and he wasn't on a UC final 4 team would you really want him as a coach? If his name was Nick Smith and he was a starter on a bad UC team but had the same coaching credentials as NVE, people would laugh at the thought of hiring him.

 

[sedziobs]

I don't understand the idea that NBA guys are somehow good recruiters. How many of these guys are good recruiters: Patrick Ewing, Chris Mullin, Danny Manning, Avery Johnson, Penny Hardaway, Johnny Dawkins, Mike Dunleavy, Kevin Ollie, Damon Stoudamire, Terry Porter, Mark Price, Donyell Marshall, and Dan Majerle. Penny is probably the best, but we're only going off of one year. None of these guys has had sustained success. I would say Dawkins and Majerle are the only ones who have even been decent over a few years.

 

[justinhub2003]

The main reason I want NVE as the next head coach is, I'm fairly confident he will bring in a class of player that will be better than what Mick brought in. He is going to recruit at a high level. If the players are of higher talent it will be easier for him to coach. If it fails, at least you gave it a shot with a high profile former player who recruited well. If it works, you have vaulted the program to another level and made it way more interesting to casual fans.

How do you know that?

90% of kids have no idea who NVE is....


Do you know why they know who Penny is? Because his Foamposite shoe was all the hype when these kids were growing up.


NVE has no hype. Kids don't know who he is. NVE played in one of the biggest cities in the country and yet has 20k twitter followers. Penny has 5x


Add in that NVE has no recruiting ties to a specific city. Where does NVE name resonate?

 

[sedziobs]

I think you have to talk to NVE. You ask him for his plan for assistant coaches....you ask him a lot of questions surrounding recruiting. I'm not sold on him yet as currently I think I'd slot him below some longshots (Pitino, Matta) and below a highly regarded Mid-Major (my picks on these seem to be changing a lot, hour by hour, so no idea who I'd place at the top of that list yet).

But you speak to NVE and if he is able to blow you away, perhaps you take a shot. He better come prepared for that conversation though.

I agree with this. Interview a variety of candidates and drill down into the details. None of us know what the full process is. We're all just guessing.

 

[cincrulz11]

If his name was Nick Smith and he was a starter on a bad UC team but had the same coaching credentials as NVE, people would laugh at the thought of hiring him.

Does anybody want to hire Earl Watson. If not then you don't want NVE either.

 

[justinhub2003]

I get your thinking. The unknown is always uncomfortable but to think Mick is the only person that can succeed at this job is insane. There are a lot of good coaches out there. Most of them no one has heard of or are "unproven". Let's give the administration and coach a chance before we start freaking out.

I'm giving the new coach a chance.

But when Mick took us to 9 straight tourney's, something that only Coach K, roy wiilliams, Self, Mark Few etc have done, then right away we know that us expecting to make the tourney every single year is now out the window.

We could make a great hire and yet still have multiple seasons in a 10 year span where we completely miss the tourney. That's just depressing.


And I'm just being a realist. I can't expect our new coach to do that. When Chris Mac, Jay Wright, John Calipari & other big name coaches haven't done that.

 

[justinhub2003]

What do you want to do? I am honestly curious. He left.

Also, Tony Bennett went into a conference with Duke and Carolina and won. Bo Ryan came from D2 and won in the Big 10. Good coaches win in any conference. My point is, you get a good coach, the rest will take care of it's self. Whether they can to that, time will tell.

When you don't hire from within and groom a coach, then you can't expect to continually strike gold.


I'm just bummed about this whole thing.



Also think, the timing was horrible. I think we could have made a run at Nate oats. but it didn't work out for us.

 

[cincyguy13]

I'm giving the new coach a chance.

But when Mick took us to 9 straight tourney's, something that only Coach K, roy wiilliams, Self, Mark Few etc have done, then right away we know that us expecting to make the tourney every single year is now out the window.

We could make a great hire and yet still have multiple seasons in a 10 year span where we completely miss the tourney. That's just depressing.


And I'm just being a realist. I can't expect our new coach to do that. When Chris Mac, Jay Wright, John Calipari & other big name coaches haven't done that.

To me, making the tournament every year is great, but if we miss it every once in a while, it's fine. I would rather do something in the tournament. If the streak is something you are worried about, then yeah, that might be broken. I don't think going 9 years in a row gets you much if you lose in the first weekend every year.

 

[cincyguy13]

When you don't hire from within and groom a coach, then you can't expect to continually strike gold.


I'm just bummed about this whole thing.



Also think, the timing was horrible. I think we could have made a run at Nate oats. but it didn't work out for us.

Overall, I think you are right about some things. It is going to be hard for a new coach to match Cronin's wins totals. Especially in the first couple years and an improving league. Cronin had also started winning trophies in his final couple years. It took him a while to get there but he got there. I do think a new coach can get close to what Cronin did and with the right hire, could surpass him. Especially in the Tournament. While I think Cronin is a good coach, I think he had plenty of flaws.