NKU

[Queens_NYC]

Really happy I went to watch Mich-Pitt and VCU-Ariz St at Barclays rather than stay home to watch (whatever ESPN+ ended up showing of) this game.

Sounds like we had a nightmare of a 2nd half shooting the ball. Thought guys like Nolley and DDJ would be able to bail us out on offense this season, but I guess that's asking too much.

The good news is that hopefully this lights a fire under us going into Maui and we rise to the occasion. 2-1 seems like a great outcome no matter how the wins come.

 

[skyblade]

I haven't given up on Miller, it wasn't pretty but he's only in year two. He does seem to have a major issue in that he wants to be a hands-off, let the guys play type coach, but we don't have the players for it. To be that type of coach, he needs guys who play hard and smart all of the time. The only player on the team who consistently plays both hard and smart is DDJ (Newman is the other if he was healthy). You can say he hasn't gotten his recruits in, but the transfers aren't exactly bringing it either.

Davenport and Nolley are lazy on both ends of the court - especially in regards to rebounding - more often than not. Their shot selection and decision making is at best questionable.

Phinisee/MAW are great on defense, but on offense they take shots they shouldn't (in Phinisee's case that is any shot that's not a layup).

It's hard to be hands off if guys make poor decisions over and over and nothing changes. At some point he has to start benching guys. But he also has a brand/style he's trying to promote to recruits, so he wants them to see his hands of style on the court. It's a delicate balance, but at this point it seems like he needs to take more control.

 

[Queens_NYC]

I haven't given up on Miller, it wasn't pretty but he's only in year two. He does seem to have a major issue in that he wants to be a hands-off, let the guys play type coach, but we don't have the players for it. To be that type of coach, he needs guys who play hard and smart all of the time. The only player on the team who consistently plays both hard and smart is DDJ (Newman is the other if he was healthy). You can say he hasn't gotten his recruits in, but the transfers aren't exactly bringing it either.

Davenport and Nolley are lazy on both ends of the court - especially in regards to rebounding - more often than not. Their shot selection and decision making is at best questionable.

Phinisee/MAW are great on defense, but on offense they take shots they shouldn't (in Phinisee's case that is any shot that's not a layup).

It's hard to be hands off if guys make poor decisions over and over and nothing changes. At some point he has to start benching guys. But he also has a brand/style he's trying to promote to recruits, so he wants them to see his hands of style on the court. It's a delicate balance, but at this point it seems like he needs to take more control.

Great insight.

Do you think his style will work better as we accrue better talent over these next few years?

 

[sedziobs]

Thought guys like Nolley and DDJ would be able to bail us out on offense this season, but I guess that's asking too much.

NKU was doubling and trapping them most of the night. They were daring Phinisee to shoot and they didn't double Davenport. It was a great scouting report and the players executed it. These are the kind of things you can figure out just by skimming Torvik for a bit, but we rarely seem to implement even a simple scouting report. Even for our own team.

Nolley had zero rim attempts last night but 7 midrange jumpers. He converts a miserable 42% from 2 in his career, and shot selection has a lot to do with that. We knew that going in based on his Memphis numbers, but what really concerns me is the drastic drop in his assist rate from 17 career to 8 this season. His best attribute is offense creation with size, and we simply aren't using it.

As a group, our guards and wings (DDJ,MAW,Phinisee,Nolley,Davenport) converted zero buckets at the rim. Tough to win like that.

Davenport and Hensley combined for 1 total rebound. That's completely embarrassing for the power forward position against a team like NKU.

 

[sedziobs]

With both of our taller guards out, I'm guessing we'll mostly go small with DDJ, MAW, Phinisee sharing the 80 minutes available at the 1/2 spots. That leaves Davenport, Nolley, and Hensley to play the 3/4 and Reed can contribute a little.

I wouldn't mind going bigger though and giving Ody a shot at playing some 4. Then we could play Davenport mostly at 3 and give Nolley some minutes at SG.

Our small guards played 74 minutes last night and combined for 13 points. Zero rim conversions and one made free throw between them. Add Nolley and Davenport to that and there is just no threat to attack the basket. This isn't working. I still think we need to try Nolley as a point forward and try to improve rebounding with Ody at the 4.

 

[Loser Mentality]

Is it me, or does our guards ignore Vik on offense. Too too many games so far, that Vik sprints the floor only to be ignored.

I guess that's why the need for a true pg is a must. Vik would be averaging 20+ points possibly. Same could be said for Kalu.

Kalu played with an edge, but no passes.

Hopefully Wes can't wait to truly have his own guys, for fair assessments.

If our Guard/Forwards can not consistently get to the basket,or make plays for others that are obviously open, this may be a long season

 

[skyblade]

Our small guards played 74 minutes last night and combined for 13 points. Zero rim conversions and one made free throw between them. Add Nolley and Davenport to that and there is just no threat to attack the basket. This isn't working. I still think we need to try Nolley as a point forward and try to improve rebounding with Ody at the 4.

I agree, it's more of the exact same problem as last year. We don't have anyone who is a threat to drive the ball into the paint and crates for others or score at the rim. We have shooters (Davenport and Nolley who catch and shoot and DDJ who creates his own shot), some big men who aren't a major threat (though Kalu did the most on offense he has this season - which isn't saying a lot) and some complete non-entities on offense (Phinisee especially).

The scouting report is simple, don't let DDJ comfortably handle the ball, cover Davenport and Nolley closely (but if you lose track of Nolley it's not really a huge deal), dare everyone else to beat you and don't cover Phinisee.

 

[sedziobs]

Agree, we're really easy to scout right now. Double DDJ and maybe Nolley. Don't help off of Davenport. Play off MAW and Phinisee.

Newman and Skillings have shown flashes of driving ability. Hopefully Skillings isn't out too long.

 

[skyblade]

Agree, we're really easy to scout right now. Double DDJ and maybe Nolley. Don't help off of Davenport. Play off MAW and Phinisee.

Newman and Skillings have shown flashes of driving ability. Hopefully Skillings isn't out too long.

If you believe that Nolley is actually who the stats say he is, there's no reason to double him.

He doesn't shoot well off the dribble and doesn't get to the rim. He likes to take bad shots and unlike DDJ, doesn't make the bad shots at a high enough rate that they become good shots. He can get hot, but overall is not going to shoot a good percentage.

Chad and others built him up as being far better than the stats say he is and that he was being held back in Memphis. The first 3 real (D1) games indicate that he is actually who he was at Memphis.

 

[sedziobs]

If you believe that Nolley is actually who the stats say he is, there's no reason to double him.

He doesn't shoot well off the dribble and doesn't get to the rim. He likes to take bad shots and unlike DDJ, doesn't make the bad shots at a high enough rate that they become good shots. He can get hot, but overall is not going to shoot a good percentage.

Chad and others built him up as being far better than the stats say he is and that he was being held back in Memphis. The first 3 real (D1) games indicate that he is actually who he was at Memphis.

I think you double scorers, not shooters or passers. Nolley is a scorer who creates his own offense with the ball in his hands. Doubling him should be effective most of the time, especially if you aren't leaving a shooter. I wouldn't double Davenport even though he's a much better shooter, I'd guard him straight up and tight.

 

[sirthought]

I don't want to blame the refs, as UC just did not make good decisions under pressure, but I did feel like a lot of the stuff that was happening would have been called for fouls in most games.

Credit NKU that they were quite physical and aggressive and generally were hustling. But a lot of the stuff that was happening around the basket was allowed when I think normally it would not have been. There were a ton of moving screens happening from both sides. It just seemed like the refs were letting things slide, which unfortunately UC was not handling it well.

It funny because I know a lot of the criticism towards Brannen was that he was making the team more of a Horizon League squad, and maybe that is somewhat true. Recruiting will have to improve, and the staff knows that. Still, I'd like to think these guys can overcome an attack like that.

 

[TheLongHaul]

Nolley is a player. He's good, problem is the rest of the team isn't. DDJ can be good when he keeps it simple, but when he is out there dribbling around for 15 seconds taking step back long jumpers he isn't good.

Not only is Miller's coaching a giant concern, but his judgment of talent is something I'm starting to question too. Not that Saunders was great, but he was better and had way more potential than MAW. And he keeps MAW and runs off Saunders. Not only that but he essentially pushed Saunders out to replace him with Phinese who hasn't even shown he's a capable D1 player. Now I'm starting to think that perhaps he really did think JD was the player of the game the other night, which is a scary thought.

 

[sedziobs]

Phinisee is exactly who we thought. Non entity on offense but excellent defender. He didn't get credit for any steals last night but created several. I think he's easily the best defender on our team. But when you have one guard who only defends and one who only scores, it's easy to combat with a decent gameplan.

Nolley is also what we thought as a scorer - inconsistent and heavy midrange. But I am convinced that Wes is squandering his passing potential. Nolley's assist rate last year was 18, second on the Memphis squad behind only Lomax and ahead of Tyler Harris. That's a big asset to have from a 6'7" guy. It would be a big upgrade over our wings last year - Newman/Madsen at 12 and Davenport at only 6.

 

[waterhead]

Phinisee is exactly who we thought. Non entity on offense but excellent defender. He didn't get credit for any steals last night but created several. I think he's easily the best defender on our team. But when you have one guard who only defends and one who only scores, it's easy to combat with a decent gameplan.

Nolley is also what we thought as a scorer - inconsistent and heavy midrange. But I am convinced that Wes is squandering his passing potential. Nolley's assist rate last year was 18, second on the Memphis squad behind only Lomax and ahead of Tyler Harris. That's a big asset to have from a 6'7" guy. It would be a big upgrade over our wings last year - Newman/Madsen at 12 and Davenport at only 6.

I agree on both. Rob has a bigger impact on the game than his offense so far has shown. He did create several steals and has been. Plus minus numbers are very good. He probably needs to start over MAW right now. Nolley is a good passer for sure. We need to post him up more because some of our post players can't handle the double down and get stripped. Nolley knows how to take advantage of it.

 

[waterhead]

Nolley is a player. He's good, problem is the rest of the team isn't. DDJ can be good when he keeps it simple, but when he is out there dribbling around for 15 seconds taking step back long jumpers he isn't good.

Not only is Miller's coaching a giant concern, but his judgment of talent is something I'm starting to question too. Not that Saunders was great, but he was better and had way more potential than MAW. And he keeps MAW and runs off Saunders. Not only that but he essentially pushed Saunders out to replace him with Phinese who hasn't even shown he's a capable D1 player. Now I'm starting to think that perhaps he really did think JD was the player of the game the other night, which is a scary thought.

Nah...Saunders chose to leave when Wes said he was bringing in another PG. MAW chose to stay. Rob has the best plus minus numbers on the team right now through 4 games (adjusted for minutes played). That's for anyone averaging 18 minutes or more. We would like Rob to score...but we have 4 better scoring options on the court in most possessions. His elite D is helping us big time...and it does appear to be elite so far.

 

[waterhead]

I'm ready to try this lineup. Rob, DDJ, Nolley, Hensley, Vik. Never thought I would say that...but we can score with 3 guys there and we can defend at a very high level as well. JD is a great 6th man heat check. And MAW is a solid replacement for Rob. I would prefer if Newman were available...but he's not.

 

[TheLongHaul]

Nah...Saunders chose to leave when Wes said he was bringing in another PG. MAW chose to stay. Rob has the best plus minus numbers on the team right now through 4 games (adjusted for minutes played). That's for anyone averaging 18 minutes or more. We would like Rob to score...but we have 4 better scoring options on the court in most possessions. His elite D is helping us big time...and it does appear to be elite so far.

Who was the other PG? Am I missing someone? If you're suggesting that Saunders left because Miller decided to bring in Rob than that kind of proves my point. Rob is not any good.

You've already stated that +/- isn't useful this early on so why do you keep going back to it to try to prove a point? He hasn't made a basket in any of the 3 D1 games so far this year. He has been absolutely brutal.

 

[TheLongHaul]

I'm ready to try this lineup. Rob, DDJ, Nolley, Hensley, Vik. Never thought I would say that...but we can score with 3 guys there and we can defend at a very high level as well. JD is a great 6th man heat check. And MAW is a solid replacement for Rob. I would prefer if Newman were available...but he's not.

You can't have an absolute zero on offense, especially at the guard position. Makes it way to easy to sag and double team on defense. Unless Rob proves he can score his only position is on the bench.

 

[skyblade]

Who was the other PG? Am I missing someone? If you're suggesting that Saunders left because Miller decided to bring in Rob than that kind of proves my point. Rob is not any good.

You've already stated that +/- isn't useful this early on so why do you keep going back to it to try to prove a point? He hasn't made a basket in any of the 3 D1 games so far this year. He has been absolutely brutal.

My understanding based on what I remember of the Saunders interview is that it wasn't that he was told we were bringing in another PG. He was told that the coaching staff didn't anticipate his role changing. He'd once again be competing for minutes with MAW and the staff expected that MAW would once again win the starting role. They'd also be willing to take the best player available from the portal and if that bumped Saunders minutes down so be it.

Saunders wanted more of a guarantee that he'd end up with a starting role. Just speculating I'd guess he was also told that they valued defense in a starting PG over offense to help to balance DDJ (who is much better on offense than defense) at SG.

 

[waterhead]

Who was the other PG? Am I missing someone? If you're suggesting that Saunders left because Miller decided to bring in Rob than that kind of proves my point. Rob is not any good.

You've already stated that +/- isn't useful this early on so why do you keep going back to it to try to prove a point? He hasn't made a basket in any of the 3 D1 games so far this year. He has been absolutely brutal.

No I don't think Saunders knew who the additional PG was going to be....just that there would be an additional PG. That ended up being Rob. I also think Rob is sub par for the type of PG we really need...as is MAW.

but you can't just grade a dude on a slow shooting start or scoring start. He can clearly impact the game on defense. I am not grading him on +/- either just offering some extra data. Points are very easy to follow but there is a lot more going on in a BB game that is harder to quantify which is why I like tracking +/-. Right now all I can say is that it seems his impact is much greater than putting the ball in the bucket. The longer we go the more we'll know...and that includes whether he will score more. Like he did at IU. He didn't score a lot but obviously he's not a zero sum scorer.

Anyway, I think we both agree we need higher caliber talent at PG