North Carolina Central

[cincycpaw]

It's not like Cane signed here as a free agent because the owner gave the ok and the coach didnt want him. Mick recruited him here so he wanted him here.

It's on Cane, and any other guard, to know this is not a place they're going to get to play freestyle.

You dont play D, you dont play. It's like that for every player here, Cane needs to either play D or he'll sit. Like it or not that's the reality with this program

Right cause if you only score 2 points you still win so long as you hold them to 1

 

[Mcginnjw]

i think mick has stripped away all the confidence cane broome has. that hurts cane's progress. that is 100% on the coach. you know anybody else that has a bad game and loses their starting position and 2 guys move above him on the depth chart that have never proven a thing in their careers? mick has only done that to cane.

you can't compare a player like jenifer's efficiency rating to a guy likes broomes. catch and shoot only players with low usage rates have artificially inflated ratings. its even noted on the site.



many nba players have spoken about how important it is for coaches to not strip guys of confidence. they say a coach isn't going to make a player great, but he can absolutely prevent him from being great.

Cane Broome is not a victim. If he isn’t doing what his coach asks and team needs him to do then he shouldn’t play. Cronin is the coach and knows how to win games. He doesn’t have star players. He has players that when they play within the system and do what is asked they will win 65% of the time. That philosophy turned the program around with 8 straight tourney appearances. I hope he doesn’t change his style to fit one person.

Cane can also produce a hell of a lot more when he is given opportunities. His shooting has been pretty bad and if his shooting sucks then he isn’t worth playing....regardless of the reason.

 

[ervins84]

Cane Broome is not a victim. If he isn’t doing what his coach asks and team needs him to do then he shouldn’t play. Cronin is the coach and knows how to win games. He doesn’t have star players. He has players that when they play within the system and do what is asked they will win 65% of the time. That philosophy turned the program around with 8 straight tourney appearances. I hope he doesn’t change his style to fit one person.

Cane can also produce a hell of a lot more when he is given opportunities. His shooting has been pretty bad and if his shooting sucks then he isn’t worth playing....regardless of the reason.

Victim or not, he was completely mismanaged last season. The short hook that Cronin constantly had for him, to the point he's constantly looking over his shoulder every time he makes a mistake is a problem. Cronin's inability to let a player play through mistakes is one of his biggest shortfalls as a coach. That and repeatedly playing lesser talented older players over younger better guys (anyone remember Guyn over Caupain?). How's that look in retrospect?

If we're really planning on playing cane 10-15 minutes a night and rolling with Justin the rest of the year I don't even know what to say. There's really only a couple choices regarding him.

1. Cronin made a mistake, misevaluated his talent/work ethic/attitude whatever you want to say and never should've recruited him and brought him here.

2. Cronin correctly judged his talent, but doesn't want to play him because ???????? (Insert whatever... Likely just a micro managing ego type thing)

 

[ervins84]

And to elaborate further, if Cane isn't going to get real minutes this year, we never even should've played him last year. Those were developmental minutes we could've given to Williams, Moore, and Justin.

Now think about how stupid that sounds. But that would've been preferential long term if he's really going to play such limited minutes this year. The entire thing has been mismanaged every single step of the way.

 

[skyblade]

And to elaborate further, if Cane isn't going to get real minutes this year, we never even should've played him last year. Those were developmental minutes we could've given to Williams, Moore, and Justin.

Now think about how stupid that sounds. But that would've been preferential long term if he's really going to play such limited minutes this year. The entire thing has been mismanaged every single step of the way.

Cronin can't see the future and know that Broome wouldn't develop as planned. He played Broome last year because Broome was the best option we had on the bench. You want to win right?

It's pretty apparent that Cane is not doing what he was recruited for. Cronin has given him every opportunity to get on the court. If Broome can't stay on the court that is Broome's fault.

Broome was recruited as a PG and eventually Cronin was forced to give up on that due to his poor ball handling and decision making. Cronin then tried to slot him in as an undersized shooting guard, which worked last season because Evans/Cumberland could share PG duties. This year we don't have Evans though and Cumberland can't handle all the PG duties when Cane is in.

So Cronin gave the combo of Jenifer/Broome both in at once a shot, gambling that the loss in defense/rebounding would be made up for by Broome's scoring. But Broome failed to produce offensively and failed to produce defensively.

This year, it looks like Williams has developed enough to be a better option than Broome. Combine that with Cane's complete failure to produce and the path forward seems obvious. If Cane wants more minutes he better dedicate himself in practice to improving his game.

 

[CareBat]

To hear y'all talk, we might as well bury the kid and run coach out of town. It was one game against a joke opponent (last year was last year).

Coach has sent him a message. How will Cane respond? Will he man up?

 

[waterhead]

To hear y'all talk, we might as well bury the kid and run coach out of town. It was one game (last year was last year).

Coach is trying to send him a message. How will Cane respond? Will he man up?

He shot poorly in two games. The kid is useless....lol!

Williams played well in one game so he's annointed.

This I can assure you. Williams is going to lay some eggs and Cane is going to have some games where we say he's gotta be out there on the court. Williams is known for being pretty inconsistent with his effort so he got the start because he did it a WHOLE 3 days in a row at practice. If Williams gives 100% every practice and every game it will be tough to keep him off the court...but that has only recently happened as far as we can tell.

Personally I hope Broome and Williams both buy in and max out the effort. We could be very good if they do.

 

[waterhead]

If Keith can give us the type of player we saw in this game all year long?

If Cane can just live up to the potential we have already seen from him?

If Scott can continue to knock down shots AND stretch the floor?

IF Brooks and Eliel control the glass and rim?


Then I think we might just have ourselves a pretty good team

 

[waterhead]

Cronin can't see the future and know that Broome wouldn't develop as planned. He played Broome last year because Broome was the best option we had on the bench. You want to win right?

It's pretty apparent that Cane is not doing what he was recruited for. Cronin has given him every opportunity to get on the court. If Broome can't stay on the court that is Broome's fault.

Broome was recruited as a PG and eventually Cronin was forced to give up on that due to his poor ball handling and decision making. Cronin then tried to slot him in as an undersized shooting guard, which worked last season because Evans/Cumberland could share PG duties. This year we don't have Evans though and Cumberland can't handle all the PG duties when Cane is in.

So Cronin gave the combo of Jenifer/Broome both in at once a shot, gambling that the loss in defense/rebounding would be made up for by Broome's scoring. But Broome failed to produce offensively and failed to produce defensively.

This year, it looks like Williams has developed enough to be a better option than Broome. Combine that with Cane's complete failure to produce and the path forward seems obvious. If Cane wants more minutes he better dedicate himself in practice to improving his game.

I am a little worried for Broome if Cronin would like to bring him on the court mainly with LoJo since Jenifer seems like Cronin is going to make him the KJ example this year.

Cronin's theory is that Jenifer, Broome, and Cumberland do not play above the rim so rebounding gets hurt when they are all in. Not to mention D. So it becomes essential for Cane to score. Makes sense I guess.

If he brings Cane in with Logan...then Logan is a guy that can get rebounds on either end because he plays above the rim and can get after it on D. Obviously Jenifer has to come out here.

So now we seem like we are already back to Cane being the "spark off the bench" with Johnson. Which means Cane will likely be frustrated all year unless he just accepts it and moves on. Or unless Logan beats out Jenifer in minutes by year's end.

This also means small ball is likely just by coincidence or emergency this year. The bigs are going to play

 

[ervins84]

Cronin can't see the future and know that Broome wouldn't develop as planned. He played Broome last year because Broome was the best option we had on the bench. You want to win right?

It's pretty apparent that Cane is not doing what he was recruited for. Cronin has given him every opportunity to get on the court. If Broome can't stay on the court that is Broome's fault.

Broome was recruited as a PG and eventually Cronin was forced to give up on that due to his poor ball handling and decision making. Cronin then tried to slot him in as an undersized shooting guard, which worked last season because Evans/Cumberland could share PG duties. This year we don't have Evans though and Cumberland can't handle all the PG duties when Cane is in.

So Cronin gave the combo of Jenifer/Broome both in at once a shot, gambling that the loss in defense/rebounding would be made up for by Broome's scoring. But Broome failed to produce offensively and failed to produce defensively.

This year, it looks like Williams has developed enough to be a better option than Broome. Combine that with Cane's complete failure to produce and the path forward seems obvious. If Cane wants more minutes he better dedicate himself in practice to improving his game.

Soooo... You truly believe this situation has been handled correctly and Cronin hasn't made a mistake at one point in this?

It's not some major indictment to say he messed something up, but I swear some people here act like he can't be wrong about anything. And this is coming after he oversaw one of the worst choke jobs in tournament history that THANK GOD UMBC beat Va or that might've been the entire story of the first weekend.

Either he's not good enough to be here (the reason why doesn't matter) and we shouldn't have bothered recruiting him

Or, he is good enough and he's not being played because.... Insert whatever koolaid bullshit that Terry Nelson or Brendel is parroting

Just mayybe we should play him and try rolling with more than one bad game before we cut bait and demote him to 3rd or 4th guy off the bench getting 10-15 minutes a game.

 

[waterhead]

I am a little worried for Broome if Cronin would like to bring him on the court mainly with LoJo since Jenifer seems like Cronin is going to make him the KJ example this year.

Cronin's theory is that Jenifer, Broome, and Cumberland do not play above the rim so rebounding gets hurt when they are all in. Not to mention D. So it becomes essential for Cane to score. Makes sense I guess.

If he brings Cane in with Logan...then Logan is a guy that can get rebounds on either end because he plays above the rim and can get after it on D. Obviously Jenifer has to come out here.

So now we seem like we are already back to Cane being the "spark off the bench" with Johnson. Which means Cane will likely be frustrated all year unless he just accepts it and moves on. Or unless Logan beats out Jenifer in minutes by year's end.

This also means small ball is likely just by coincidence or emergency this year. The bigs are going to play

Knowing (at least for now) that Cronin wants to play LoJo and Broome together and Jenifer and Williams together. Knowing that he seems hell bent on playing our bigs for most of the game. Here is what I would like to see in terms of minutes breakdown in the bigger games

Cumberland 35/Moore 5
Scott 30/Fredericks 10
Jenifer 20/Logan 20
Williams 20/Broome 20
Brooks 20/Eliel 15/Moore 5

I think it's more likely we see Jenifer get 25 which could effect the minutes of Broome, Williams, and Johnson. My preference would probably be that Johnson wins the 25 minutes and Broome can be on the court that long

 

[cincrulz11]

remember when we used to do the +/- each game between broome and jenifer and they weren't even close.



broome is the better player and it wasn't close. the team performed much better when he was on the court vs when jenifer was.




yet here we still are a year later, and jenifer is safe but now cane has to fight for minutes with 2 never have beens.



its like cane never proved it on the court. he has proved it, he proved it for a full year. its all stupid. Logan Johnson is next on the list. His minutes will suffer as well for the all mighty Jenifer.


What is the excuse gonna be for LJ sitting so much? It wont' be effort and it won't be defense.

 

[waterhead]

remember when we used to do the +/- each game between broome and jenifer and they weren't even close.



broome is the better player and it wasn't close. the team performed much better when he was on the court vs when jenifer was.




yet here we still are a year later, and jenifer is safe but now cane has to fight for minutes with 2 never have beens.



its like cane never proved it on the court. he has proved it, he proved it for a full year. its all stupid. Logan Johnson is next on the list. His minutes will suffer as well for the all mighty Jenifer.


What is the excuse gonna be for LJ sitting so much? It wont' be effort and it won't be defense.

We went from Cane playing PG minutes last year to him not being able to be trusted at that position. Now we are at a point where Jenifer is not being challenged by Broome at PG and Broome can't be on the wing when Jenifer is in.

Jenifer is keeping Broome out of the game at two different positions...lol!

 

[skyblade]

Soooo... You truly believe this situation has been handled correctly and Cronin hasn't made a mistake at one point in this?

It's not some major indictment to say he messed something up, but I swear some people here act like he can't be wrong about anything. And this is coming after he oversaw one of the worst choke jobs in tournament history that THANK GOD UMBC beat Va or that might've been the entire story of the first weekend.

Either he's not good enough to be here (the reason why doesn't matter) and we shouldn't have bothered recruiting him

Or, he is good enough and he's not being played because.... Insert whatever koolaid bullshit that Terry Nelson or Brendel is parroting

Just mayybe we should play him and try rolling with more than one bad game before we cut bait and demote him to 3rd or 4th guy off the bench getting 10-15 minutes a game.

You are trying to make a big deal out of missing on a recruit. Everyone does that, that is the nature of recruiting. If you hit on at least 75% you are doing great. Sure Cronin has made mistakes on recruits, so has every single other college coach.

But a large part of it is Broome. Broome was recruited as a PG, but wasn't able to cut it at PG. At SG he is competing with players significantly bigger and more athletic than him (and thus better at defense and rebounding), he needs to make up for that by playing excellent offense and so far he hasn't.

Kyle Washington was in a similar position last year. He was on the court for his offense and his backups were better defenders and rebounders. Kyle managed to do well in that role for the most part, but also spent large amounts of certain games sitting on the bench. Like Kyle, Broome needs to significantly outperform the alternatives on the offensive end of the floor to get more playing time. Time will tell if Broome can do that.

 

[waterhead]

You are trying to make a big deal out of missing on a recruit. Everyone does that, that is the nature of recruiting. If you hit on at least 75% you are doing great. Sure Cronin has made mistakes on recruits, so has every single other college coach.

But a large part of it is Broome. Broome was recruited as a PG, but wasn't able to cut it at PG. At SG he is competing with players significantly bigger and more athletic than him (and thus better at defense and rebounding), he needs to make up for that by playing excellent offense and so far he hasn't.

Kyle Washington was in a similar position last year. He was on the court for his offense and his backups were better defenders and rebounders. Kyle managed to do well in that role for the most part, but also spent large amounts of certain games sitting on the bench. Like Kyle, Broome needs to significantly outperform the alternatives on the offensive end of the floor to get more playing time. Time will tell if Broome can do that.

As Cincrulz mentioned. The plus minus was pretty heavily in favor of Broome last year when it was calculated by members of the board. And that was when Broome was playing "out of position". He led Jenifer in per 40 minute categories across the board except turnovers, FT%.

Cane scored 5.5 more points per 40. Shot higher % overall and from 3. Led Steals, assists, and rebounds. So you have to figure out a way to measure the defensive deficiency when he is on the court and really only Cronin has all the deflection numbers and all of that. But a good way to do it is the plus minus when player A and B are on the court. The best way to do that is to measure when they are on the court with the same players...but this year we may not see that happen because they will be at 2 different positions. Jenifer will have to be compared to Logan. And Broome to Williams. But if Jenifer always plays with Williams and Logan with Broome (after a full line change) it will be hard to determine.

I think Cronin will forgo the plus minus (point differential) in order to teach lessons. In this way Cane becomes the goat and Jenifer the G.O.A.T.

 

[ervins84]

You are trying to make a big deal out of missing on a recruit. Everyone does that, that is the nature of recruiting. If you hit on at least 75% you are doing great. Sure Cronin has made mistakes on recruits, so has every single other college coach.

But a large part of it is Broome. Broome was recruited as a PG, but wasn't able to cut it at PG. At SG he is competing with players significantly bigger and more athletic than him (and thus better at defense and rebounding), he needs to make up for that by playing excellent offense and so far he hasn't.

Kyle Washington was in a similar position last year. He was on the court for his offense and his backups were better defenders and rebounders. Kyle managed to do well in that role for the most part, but also spent large amounts of certain games sitting on the bench. Like Kyle, Broome needs to significantly outperform the alternatives on the offensive end of the floor to get more playing time. Time will tell if Broome can do that.

No, I'm trying to get you to understand that what you posted above almost has to be the evaluation of Broome to justify what happened the other night. The problem is anyone posting that we just missed on Broome, oh well it happens, prior to the Ohio State game would've been completely laughed at and dismissed.

It's nothing more than rewriting history to fit what Cronin is doing today. Nothing in last season at all supports the above that you posted.

 

[cincrulz11]

No, I'm trying to get you to understand that what you posted above almost has to be the evaluation of Broome to justify what happened the other night. The problem is anyone posting that we just missed on Broome, oh well it happens, prior to the Ohio State game would've been completely laughed at and dismissed.

It's nothing more than rewriting history to fit what Cronin is doing today. Nothing in last season at all supports the above that you posted.

the extremely odd thing about it is that even mick himself appears to know who the better player is and who helps the team more. look at the minutes vs the top opponents last year.

Broome played season high minutes vs xavier, florida, and both wichita st games. 27, 28, 28, 28.


Jenifer played 17, 23, 11, and 13 minutes in those games.



when mick thought we played better teams, he used broome. its a really crazy way to do things.

 

[skyblade]

No, I'm trying to get you to understand that what you posted above almost has to be the evaluation of Broome to justify what happened the other night. The problem is anyone posting that we just missed on Broome, oh well it happens, prior to the Ohio State game would've been completely laughed at and dismissed.

It's nothing more than rewriting history to fit what Cronin is doing today. Nothing in last season at all supports the above that you posted.

I'm not saying we missed on Broome. I think he can be a quality piece in our rotation. I'm saying that misses do happen and that is to be expected. No coach is right 100% of the time. That is part of college (and even pro sports).

 

[skyblade]

the extremely odd thing about it is that even mick himself appears to know who the better player is and who helps the team more. look at the minutes vs the top opponents last year.

Broome played season high minutes vs xavier, florida, and both wichita st games. 27, 28, 28, 28.


Jenifer played 17, 23, 11, and 13 minutes in those games.



when mick thought we played better teams, he used broome. its a really crazy way to do things.

We can't know what Cronin sees on the film and in practices. It does seem like Cronin has a pet peeve for PG's who commit TO's.

That said, I forget when the switched happened, but it seemed like by conference play Cronin had Evans/Cumberland running point a fair amount when Broome was in. They had completely taken over PG duties when Broome was in by the end of the season.

This year is different because of the lack of Evans. Cronin seems to be worried about the lack of good ball handlers and decision makers on this team. He doesn't seem to consider Broome to be good at it (rightly or wrongly), but does consider Jenifer to be one (and maybe Johnson as well). If Evans we're still here we'd have him and Cumberland to run the offense and Broome could be off-ball. Now the PG needs to be more involved in running the offense and Cronin doesn't trust Broome to do that.

Unfortunately for Broome, it looks like that limits his minutes. He can't run PG (or Cronin won't let him) and he is competing against much bigger, stronger and more athletic players at SG.

At that point it is just about if you trust Cronin's ability to judge his players talent and right to be on the floor. I tend to, though admittedly he has made some questionable decisions in the past.

 

[cincrulz11]

At that point it is just about if you trust Cronin's ability to judge his players talent and right to be on the floor. I tend to, though admittedly he has made some questionable decisions in the past.

he has a very long track record of playing worse players while the better guy rides the bench. cronin is gonna play his guys, he doesn't care if the other guy is better. we go through this with a player nearly every single year. caupain to evans to cumberland to broome to johnson. never ending cycle. unless cronins guys gets hurt and hes forced to go with the better player (guyn and shaq getting hurt to let caupain and evans take over)


Guyn, KJ, Shaq, Jenifer those guys never had the talent to be starters logging all those minutes for us. But dang it if they didn't still do it.