Off-season Canada trip

[cincycpaw]

Correct, even if they have 4 fouls with 6 minutes to go.

He also has had a history of weird substitution patterns, like taking out gary and kyle at the same time last year, sitting kyle after scoring 8 pts in a row etc..

Yeah taking Kyle out frustrated the hell out of me. And yes, not always having 2 of Evans, Clark, Washington, Cumberland on the floor at all times (unless blow out etc) frustrated me as well. I hated Cronins sub pattern (and starting lineup) last season.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Correct, even if they have 4 fouls with 6 minutes to go.

He also has had a history of weird substitution patterns, like taking out gary and kyle at the same time last year, sitting kyle after scoring 8 pts in a row etc..

His weird substitute patterns got them home at 31-5 and 16-2 in league. If he does as well this year I'll be very happy.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

His weird substitute patterns got them home at 31-5 and 16-2 in league. If he does as well this year I'll be very happy.

That has nothing to do with the comment you stated that he puts the players on the court that give him the best chance to win. The margin for error was much much greater last year with 3 1K scorers and a weak league.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

That has nothing to do with the comment you stated that he puts the players on the court that give him the best chance to win. The margin for error was much much greater last year with 3 1K scorers and a weak league.

It has everything to do with it. Many are saying he will play this guy over that guy. My comment was he plays the players that will give him the best chance to win. If you don't agree with that fine. My point is he has done quite well doing it his way. Doesn't mean there isn't other ways to get it done.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

It has everything to do with it. Many are saying he will play this guy over that guy. My comment was he plays the players that will give him the best chance to win. If you don't agree with that fine. My point is he has done quite well doing it his way. Doesn't mean there isn't other ways to get it done.

Waite, so you would have started Jenifer over cane b/c he gives you a better chance to win, same with KJ a couple years ago?

Cmon he had 3 1K scorers including all conference defensive player and POY, first round NBA playerand he maxes out by not beating X or getting past first weekend? Everything adds up fine to you? Sure they won conference and conference tourney in a conference that sent nobody to second weekend NCAA's. To me it appears to be his ceiling,I dont see him having as talented a team as that again, or the draw he got from the second round to F4, but you dont have to agree.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Waite, so you would have started Jenifer over cane b/c he gives you a better chance to win, same with KJ a couple years ago?

Cmon he had 3 1K scorers including all conference defensive player and POY, first round NBA playerand he maxes out by not beating X or getting past first weekend? Everything adds up fine to you? Sure they won conference and conference tourney in a conference that sent nobody to second weekend NCAA's. To me it appears to be his ceiling,I dont see him having as talented a team as that again, or the draw he got from the second round to F4, but you dont have to agree.

I had know issue him starting JJ over Cane. He was a better ball handler and defender. Cane strengths allowed him to play with the second unit and be a scorer. X was a very good team as well. You make them sound like we got beat by a scrub team. As for being fine, like you I want more but as someone who has lived through the years between Jucker and Huggins if they make a move they had better get it right. My belief is as our athletics are structured now and our conference affiliation this may be as good as it gets. You would have never convinced me in my 64 years on this earth that X would have a better program then us. There basketball only and big east affiliation have put them ahead of us. It makes me sick. It will surprise you who I blame. I blame Huggins. His drunk ass driving around town just when we were positioned to enter the best basket league in the history of the NCAA hurt us tremendously. Mick was dealt a crap sandwich and has done well. He may have peaked. You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

 

[justinhub2003]

Waite, so you would have started Jenifer over cane b/c he gives you a better chance to win, same with KJ a couple years ago?

Cmon he had 3 1K scorers including all conference defensive player and POY, first round NBA playerand he maxes out by not beating X or getting past first weekend? Everything adds up fine to you? Sure they won conference and conference tourney in a conference that sent nobody to second weekend NCAA's. To me it appears to be his ceiling,I dont see him having as talented a team as that again, or the draw he got from the second round to F4, but you dont have to agree.

Dude if we started cane last year, who the hell scored when he needs a rest?

Cane is a higher usage PG. his higher usage means it would take away possessions from jarron, Kyle, Jake and Gary. Jenifer is a low usage guard. He barely took shots and just let the other guys work.

Cane got more scoring opportunity coming off the bench. It’s not that hard to see.


I’ll be upset if he doesn’t start this season buf by all indication he will

 

[cincycpaw]

Dude if we started cane last year, who the hell scored when he needs a rest?

Cane is a higher usage PG. his higher usage means it would take away possessions from jarron, Kyle, Jake and Gary. Jenifer is a low usage guard. He barely took shots and just let the other guys work.

Cane got more scoring opportunity coming off the bench. It’s not that hard to see.


I’ll be upset if he doesn’t start this season buf by all indication he will

I suppose the Warriors should start a different lineup cause Curry, Thompson, green, Durant and boogie’s usage rates are all too high. This is a tired argument. “He cant play the best players cause he’d have no one coming off the bench”....so you start a bench player? That’s nonsense

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I suppose the Warriors should start a different lineup cause Curry, Thompson, green, Durant and boogie’s usage rates are all too high. This is a tired argument. “He cant play the best players cause he’d have no one coming off the bench”....so you start a bench player? That’s nonsense

Not nonsense at all. creatin a cohesive unit is huge. In my opinion Cane was not ready to step into the role of distributor after being the alpha dog at Scared Heart. I think you'll see him used differently this year if he steps it up defensively.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

Dude if we started cane last year, who the hell scored when he needs a rest?

Cane is a higher usage PG. his higher usage means it would take away possessions from jarron, Kyle, Jake and Gary. Jenifer is a low usage guard. He barely took shots and just let the other guys work.

Cane got more scoring opportunity coming off the bench. It’s not that hard to see.


I’ll be upset if he doesn’t start this season buf by all indication he will

Jake

 

[waterhead]

Last year we had 5 guys who could score. The only reason to keep Cane on the bench would be if you planned on sending in a full line change "Goon Squad" and keep a guy out there who could score while the rest of the starters took a breather. That wasn't the case. Or if Cane looked to score himself too much and didn't get the rest of the scorers involved. He was 5th in FGA per 40 minutes and 6th if you count Diara so that theory doesn't add up either. He was also 1st in assists per 40 minutes.

Bottom line is I don't want to play "hot potato" this year ending in shot clock violations and bad looks...so we will need guys like Broome, Cumberland, Williams, and Diara in the game when other guys too shy.

If we play Jenifer, Brooks, Scott, we are going to be playing a lot of hot potato and putting undue pressure on Cumberland to make last second miracles ending in an offensive efficiency disaster.

We will need Cumberland out there. We will need Broome out there. We will need Williams out there. If Diara has improved we will need him out there as well...because they aren't afraid to take shots. That doesn't mean they need to take bad shots. Hot potato will lead to a lot of bad shots.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Last year we had 5 guys who could score. The only reason to keep Cane on the bench would be if you planned on sending in a full line change "Goon Squad" and keep a guy out there who could score while the rest of the starters took a breather. That wasn't the case. Or if Cane looked to score himself too much and didn't get the rest of the scorers involved. He was 5th in FGA per 40 minutes and 6th if you count Diara so that theory doesn't add up either. He was also 1st in assists per 40 minutes.

Bottom line is I don't want to play "hot potato" this year ending in shot clock violations and bad looks...so we will need guys like Broome, Cumberland, Williams, and Diara in the game when other guys too shy.

If we play Jenifer, Brooks, Scott, we are going to be playing a lot of hot potato and putting undue pressure on Cumberland to make last second miracles ending in an offensive efficiency disaster.

We will need Cumberland out there. We will need Broome out there. We will need Williams out there. If Diara has improved we will need him out there as well...because they aren't afraid to take shots. That doesn't mean they need to take bad shots. Hot potato will lead to a lot of bad shots.

He didn't need him to get offense with the first unit. He had 4 scorers on the floor. He also had his best PG defender out there and a guy who took care of the ball. Coaches way got us a pretty good season save one game.

This years team will have issues out scoring teams regardless who you start unless a few guys really step up. My spider sense tells me if we can't score the ball we better be defending. I would think you will see a bunch of mixing and matching this year.

 

[waterhead]

He didn't need him to get offense with the first unit. He had 4 scorers on the floor. He also had his best PG defender out there and a guy who took care of the ball. Coaches way got us a pretty good season save one game.

This years team will have issues out scoring teams regardless who you start unless a few guys really step up. My spider sense tells me if we can't score the ball we better be defending. I would think you will see a bunch of mixing and matching this year.

Having a 1st unit kind of implies we had a 2nd unit. We really didn't. We plugged and played. We didn't have a Goon Squad type of wholesale lineup change. In that Goon Squad sense it may have made sense to keep Broome on the bench to come in and help an offensively challenged unit score. But we didn't do that. Evans could play 35 minutes and so could Cumberland if we needed it. Clark was capable of 35 minutes. Kyle probably topped out around 30 minutes.

The whole notion of needing Cane for bench scoring is absurd to me. He was on the bench for other reasons. He was not a ball hog in shot attempts and he lead the team in assists per 40 minutes.

I think it mostly came down to perimeter passing. Cronin wanted to get the ball to the wings and hopefully down to the bigs. Cane wasn't very good with perimeter passing. His attack style will work better this year...but let's not pretend Cane was on the bench to help with bench scoring.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Having a 1st unit kind of implies we had a 2nd unit. We really didn't. We plugged and played. We didn't have a Goon Squad type of wholesale lineup change. In that Goon Squad sense it may have made sense to keep Broome on the bench to come in and help an offensively challenged unit score. But we didn't do that. Evans could play 35 minutes and so could Cumberland if we needed it. Clark was capable of 35 minutes. Kyle probably topped out around 30 minutes.

The whole notion of needing Cane for bench scoring is absurd to me. He was on the bench for other reasons. He was not a ball hog in shot attempts and he lead the team in assists per 40 minutes.

I think it mostly came down to perimeter passing. Cronin wanted to get the ball to the wings and hopefully down to the bigs. Cane wasn't very good with perimeter passing. His attack style will work better this year...but let's not pretend Cane was on the bench to help with bench scoring.

I'm sure there are a number of reasons why Cane was utilized off the bench. His perimeter passing, he was much better free lancing and Cronin thought his style of play was better suited at the PG spot with the second unit. Which aligns with your idea of him not being effective feeding the post. Lots of times when he was in with Evans and co. he was running the 2 guard with the ball in Evans hands. Many reasons why he didn't start. Cronin probably liked the flexibility he had with Cane's game. Not starting him allowed him the option of adjusting to how the game was going. Like you I think this year we will not have that luxury unless Johnson comes on in a hurry.

 

[AZ BEARCAT]

He didn't need him to get offense with the first unit. He had 4 scorers on the floor. He also had his best PG defender out there and a guy who took care of the ball. Coaches way got us a pretty good season save one game.

This years team will have issues out scoring teams regardless who you start unless a few guys really step up. My spider sense tells me if we can't score the ball we better be defending. I would think you will see a bunch of mixing and matching this year.

and that was a great game until the last 12 min.

 

[cincycpaw]

I'm trying to forget that game.

 

[cincrulz11]

If we want to talk about last year UC didn't play a single team with a more talented roster. They played 8 games vs teams in the top 25 on kenpom going 3-5 and 0-3 to the teams that were OOC.



that team did not come close to its full potential. thats just the facts.

 

[justinhub2003]

Having a 1st unit kind of implies we had a 2nd unit. We really didn't. We plugged and played. We didn't have a Goon Squad type of wholesale lineup change. In that Goon Squad sense it may have made sense to keep Broome on the bench to come in and help an offensively challenged unit score. But we didn't do that. Evans could play 35 minutes and so could Cumberland if we needed it. Clark was capable of 35 minutes. Kyle probably topped out around 30 minutes.

The whole notion of needing Cane for bench scoring is absurd to me. He was on the bench for other reasons. He was not a ball hog in shot attempts and he lead the team in assists per 40 minutes.

I think it mostly came down to perimeter passing. Cronin wanted to get the ball to the wings and hopefully down to the bigs. Cane wasn't very good with perimeter passing. His attack style will work better this year...but let's not pretend Cane was on the bench to help with bench scoring.

Cane %shots was 20.1 compared to 13.3 of Jenifer


Cane would never get to 20.1 if he played with Evans, Cumberland, Washington and Gary.

 

[BearcatsNE]

All of this Cronin using Cane stuff last year is crazy, looking back at it Cronin mentally screwed with some of those kids head all year long. And once again in the biggest game last year. And Cane perimeter passing or passing to the post wasn’t his strong point is also nonsense. Mick just couldn’t get out of his own way and made some questionable decisions and so did the coaches. But you put your best 5 out there and let them do what they do best and that’s play basket. You can’t control every single minute of the game. And the players have to learn to let some of Micks antics bounce off them. I just hope all this could happen for us this year.

 

[justinhub2003]

All of this Cronin using Cane stuff last year is crazy, looking back at it Cronin mentally screwed with some of those kids head all year long. And once again in the biggest game last year. And Cane perimeter passing or passing to the post wasn’t his strong point is also nonsense. Mick just couldn’t get out of his own way and made some questionable decisions and so did the coaches. But you put your best 5 out there and let them do what they do best and that’s play basket. You can’t control every single minute of the game. And the players have to learn to let some of Micks antics bounce off them. I just hope all this could happen for us this year.

Cane has to attack this year and just go YOLO.


I want him and jarron shooting a combined 25-30 shots a game.

That said, people always say Cronin is way too hard on his players. It comes from our fans and our rivals and yet, we have one of the lowest transfer rates in the country.

And generally mick doesn’t recruit kids who want to hear nothing but yes’s from the coach, he gets kids who want to be coached, and be highly demanded of. And he tells them nothing but the truth.

All I know is; cane went from below average to average defender his first 2 years, to grading out as an excellent defender after 2 years at UC. That’s huge. And for kids who want to make money, being a 2 way player is more valuable now than it will ever be.


All that said, I want this to be the year of cane and jarron. They have an opportunity to shine this year. But neither can be passive. And in general, for them, a bad shot might be better then a good shot with the team they have around them.

I’ve watched so much cane on film at SHU that I know we haven’t seen everything he is capable of. He just needs to attack attack attack.