This Year Compared to the Past Few Years

[jacobkdoyle]

Okay I have had a few days now to "cool down" so its time to respond. Obviously this week the forum has turned very negative to the season, the future and the coach. Some of it is warranted some is not.

First of all on the negative:

I absolutely hate when coach gives his "statistics". On the show the other night he talked about what they have done in their wins and what they didn't do in their losses. I believe this is apples and oranges. The stats he uses for the wins are definitely better because they are against lesser competition. Better teams will find a way to score no matter how good your defense is. There will be games that we just need to be able outscore the better teams. With this said UC did shoot 48.1% for WSU game, had a better FT percentage, outrebounded them, had less turnovers, and only was outscored by 2 in the paint. Granted these stats were all very close. The killer in my opinion was that two of arguably best scorers were carelessly aggressive, committing 7 turnovers on some questionable drives, many of which should have been passed back out.

Cane Broom definitely needs to see more time. Jennifer turns the ball over less but he has lost the ability to stress the defense of better teams. Holding the ball, being too cautious and not getting some penetration causes what should be called a "team turnover", getting too late into the clock and being forced into a bad shot.

With the negative out of the way I believe that Cronin still gets an unfair shake around here. I know I will be the target here but the arm chair quarterbacks definitely come out after losses. I break down the 4 losses this way.
X: Coach definitely needs to come up with a different way to prepare his players for that game emotionally. X always comes out on an emotional high
Florida: 21 turnovers, some literally unforced, gave that game away
Houston: Outrebounded and out muscled along with a lousy shooting night, probably played his starters way too many minutes
Wichita State: Stats very even, my thoughts on why they lost are above

Ended up arguing with other fans around me at the game Sunday. Before the game everyone is bitching that Cronin didn't give his starters enough rest the other day against Houston, then proceeded to bitch every time a starter was taken out. If I remember it correctly coach went back to the starting 5 at one point in the first half and subsequently had three bonehead plays in a row from Evans, Cumberland and Washington. I think if this team is asked to play this intense defense they definitely need to use the bench. I truly believe that when they play too many minutes it affects their shooting at the end of the game. If the feeling is going forward that you cannot depend on the bench they will need to resort to more zone to give a periodic break.

This season is not over as many believe.

Yeah that's what made me realize he wouldn't be making any adjustments. Just doubling down and "playing tougher". He says he needs his players to be "answers". He also needs to have answers for them. Doing the same thing that has made us 0-4 in our 4 toughest spots doesn't seem like a recipe for winning a bunch of win or go home games against good competition in a couple weeks.

It's silly to cite rebounding margin against UCF without Tacko, ECU, USF, short-handed SMU, etc, as if it's the same as @Xavier, vs Florida, @Houston, and vs Wichita State. We are basically banking on manhandling the best teams in the country in order to win. Also, our Ast/TO is going to be way out of whack in a 4 game sample when you include the 21 TO Florida game. Obviously that did happen. But it throws the numbers.

 

[ME80]

Yeah that's what made me realize he wouldn't be making any adjustments. Just doubling down and "playing tougher". He says he needs his players to be "answers". He also needs to have answers for them. Doing the same thing that has made us 0-4 in our 4 toughest spots doesn't seem like a recipe for winning a bunch of win or go home games against good competition in a couple weeks.

It's silly to cite rebounding margin against UCF without Tacko, ECU, USF, short-handed SMU, etc, as if it's the same as @Xavier, vs Florida, @Houston, and vs Wichita State.

I'm curious, after the Houston and Wichita game what adjustments would you make. The only one I can see this late in the season is for Cane to play more minutes, don't really care who starts.

 

[Alum2013]

I'm curious, after the Houston and Wichita game what adjustments would you make. The only one I can see this late in the season is for Cane to play more minutes, don't really care who starts.

Cane needs to start and if Evans is going to be the focal point of the offense he can't also be doing a full court press the entire game. It's no wonder his shooting is slacking, there's no way his legs aren't starting to go a little bit. He probably workers harder each game then almost anyone in the country.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

I'm curious, after the Houston and Wichita game what adjustments would you make. The only one I can see this late in the season is for Cane to play more minutes, don't really care who starts.

Start:
Broome
Cumberland
Evans
Clark
Washington

Play them as many minutes as they can. Jenifer, Williams, Scott, Brooks, Nsoseme are the bench guys to go with. But they each play about 10 minutes or less from here on out, so long as there is no foul trouble. Moore is out of the rotation. No disrespect to him, but he hasn't been giving us anything and Williams is the caliber athlete we need against the highest level teams. We have come up short offensively a zillion times in the past. We will come up short offensively in the future. This year we don't have to come up short offensively. It's exactly what we've been building for. But coach is getting cold feet. He may have said all this stuff about needing offense and recruited the players. But now that the time is here to jam our foot on the gas, play our best basketball players, and really go for it, we are finding out that Cronin can't handle it. He can't let go. He has his comfort zone and he will not leave it, even if he knows the end result. This is the one chance to go out a different way. If he is here for 30 years, this may be the best chance to ever legitimately put 5 scorers on the floor at once. But he won't let us have it. So if we go out with Washington and/or Broome on the bench in favor of guys who give us ZERO offense, I simply will not be able to forgive that and I will always judge Cronin harshly for it. We are at a crossroads for this season right now...and I'd bet the farm that our coach is going to go down the old familiar path.

If he continues to play players who can do nothing but turn the game into a rockfight, I'll never listen to a word he ever says about offense ever again. The time is right now. It's staring right at us. If we go the rockfight route now, then we might as well just stop the charade and admit that's who we are and who we will be for all time. If you can't avoid the rockfight with this team, bc you can't help but play Jenifer, Brooks, and Nsoseme as much as Broome and Washington, then you deep down have no intention of ever doing it any other way.

The game tonight means nothing. But I'm afraid we'll act like it means everything. And after we win, outrebound them, start Jenifer, etc, coach will be spreading the message that we're back on track. But in reality, we are just playing another sh*tty team. And there will be no reason to think we will be prepared to play the best teams next time.

 

[cincrulz11]

I'm curious, after the Houston and Wichita game what adjustments would you make. The only one I can see this late in the season is for Cane to play more minutes, don't really care who starts.

run the offense all game. stop going to this iso jake stuff. it doesn't work.


the offense is solid when we use the 5 best guys. we need to make it difficult on the defense, not easier.


im sure mick would LOVE it if a team elected to play 1 on 5 offense against him. very surprising he wants to do it with his offense.

 

[Queens_NYC]

What does everyone think about these rotations for the 1st half of future games?

Starting Line-up
Broome
Cumberland
Evans
Clark
Washington

1st Media Timeout Line-up
Broome
Cumberland
Evans
Clark
Brooks

2nd Media Timeout Line-up
Jenifer
Williams
Evans
Scott
Washington

3rd Media Timeout Line-up
Jenifer
Broome
Cumberland
Clark
Nsoseme

Final Media Timeout Line-up
Broome
Cumberland
Evans
Clark
Washington

 

[Jon Rycek]

My opinion was Cronin and the program should be judged by last year and this year. Last year was a terrific season and a loss to a good UCLA team in the 2nd round. Ultimately it wasn't what I wanted and hoped for better, but it was a solid year.

This season has been mostly good. It was a great year up to losing to WSU at home. It's not that that 1 loss is the difference between a good year and a bad year, but it highlighted the other losses we've had against good competition. That WSU put this season on notice. Lose at WSU, lose in the conference tourny and lose in 1st weekend of the tournament and this season is a failure. I think for this season to be considered a success the Cats must:

1) Advance to the sweet 16 or:
2) Win out (beating WSU on the road and winning the conference title and tournament)

Anything less than that is a failure. I have hope for this but it's pretty slim now. I'm concerned by Cronin's substitutions and not keeping Washington on the floor for a scoring punch. I'm concerned about the misuse of Broome this season. Cronin will need to change in order for this season to be a success.

As for next year...less optimism. But if Jacob stays, Cumberland improves, Broome gets to play his game and the bigs improve a little....could have a solid season. SHould be enough for the NCAA tournament but I wouldn't bet on a sweet 16 at this point. Have to see.

There is nothing slim about us making the sweet 16 or beating Wichita st

 

[Jon Rycek]

Start:
Broome
Cumberland
Evans
Clark
Washington

Play them as many minutes as they can. Jenifer, Williams, Scott, Brooks, Nsoseme are the bench guys to go with. But they each play about 10 minutes or less from here on out, so long as there is no foul trouble. Moore is out of the rotation. No disrespect to him, but he hasn't been giving us anything and Williams is the caliber athlete we need against the highest level teams. We have come up short offensively a zillion times in the past. We will come up short offensively in the future. This year we don't have to come up short offensively. It's exactly what we've been building for. But coach is getting cold feet. He may have said all this stuff about needing offense and recruited the players. But now that the time is here to jam our foot on the gas, play our best basketball players, and really go for it, we are finding out that Cronin can't handle it. He can't let go. He has his comfort zone and he will not leave it, even if he knows the end result. This is the one chance to go out a different way. If he is here for 30 years, this may be the best chance to ever legitimately put 5 scorers on the floor at once. But he won't let us have it. So if we go out with Washington and/or Broome on the bench in favor of guys who give us ZERO offense, I simply will not be able to forgive that and I will always judge Cronin harshly for it. We are at a crossroads for this season right now...and I'd bet the farm that our coach is going to go down the old familiar path.

If he continues to play players who can do nothing but turn the game into a rockfight, I'll never listen to a word he ever says about offense ever again. The time is right now. It's staring right at us. If we go the rockfight route now, then we might as well just stop the charade and admit that's who we are and who we will be for all time. If you can't avoid the rockfight with this team, bc you can't help but play Jenifer, Brooks, and Nsoseme as much as Broome and Washington, then you deep down have no intention of ever doing it any other way.

The game tonight means nothing. But I'm afraid we'll act like it means everything. And after we win, outrebound them, start Jenifer, etc, coach will be spreading the message that we're back on track. But in reality, we are just playing another sh*tty team. And there will be no reason to think we will be prepared to play the best teams next time.

Crazy how much you've switched around your favoritism of Moore and Williams. I know Moore has been putting up a lot of bricks and been struggling g the last couple games. But I haven't seen much nor eout of Williams to warrant being his replacement.

 

[cincycpaw]

There is nothing slim about us making the sweet 16 or beating Wichita st

Hope you are correct.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Crazy how much you've switched around your favoritism of Moore and Williams. I know Moore has been putting up a lot of bricks and been struggling g the last couple games. But I haven't seen much nor eout of Williams to warrant being his replacement.

Yes I agree it's kind of crazy. But keep in mind we are talking about 10 or so minutes of playing time.

I like Williams's length and athleticism for spot minutes. He grabbed an offensive rebound the other day, got to the line, has hit 83% FT in AAC play. His aggressiveness can actually be used as an advantage in these types of minutes. He might go 2-3 and get to the line. I really feel like he has a much better chance than Moore to put up a quick 5. Moore is shooting 29% in conference play. And even worse from 3. That's supposed to be his thing. I still have moderately high hopes for him, and I think he'll be a contributor. I just don't think he's ready for that at this point against the best of the best teams in the country. Williams I believe is over a year older than Moore. He's a much more gifted athlete. That's who I'd be going with.

 

[M64W]

Crazy how much you've switched around your favoritism of Moore and Williams. I know Moore has been putting up a lot of bricks and been struggling g the last couple games. But I haven't seen much nor eout of Williams to warrant being his replacement.

Moore needs to change his attitude and work ethic. He messes around during warmups, not making ANY shots, taking silly shots. I am disappointed that the coaches do not see this and correct his approach.

 

[GarradJ21]

What does everyone think about these rotations for the 1st half of future games?

Starting Line-up
Broome
Cumberland
Evans
Clark
Washington

1st Media Timeout Line-up
Broome
Cumberland
Evans
Clark
Brooks

2nd Media Timeout Line-up
Jenifer
Williams
Evans
Scott
Washington

3rd Media Timeout Line-up
Jenifer
Broome
Cumberland
Clark
Nsoseme

Final Media Timeout Line-up
Broome
Cumberland
Evans
Clark
Washington

I don't think Cronin subs on time like the NBA. I think sometimes, yes. He did during the WSU game some but I think mostly he waits for mistakes. He even mentioned how NBA does subs and he worded as in college they don't do it like NBA.

I don't care how it shakes out we just need Cane at 30 min. Been saying that from the beginning.

 

[Jon Rycek]

Yes I agree it's kind of crazy. But keep in mind we are talking about 10 or so minutes of playing time.

I like Williams's length and athleticism for spot minutes. He grabbed an offensive rebound the other day, got to the line, has hit 83% FT in AAC play. His aggressiveness can actually be used as an advantage in these types of minutes. He might go 2-3 and get to the line. I really feel like he has a much better chance than Moore to put up a quick 5. Moore is shooting 29% in conference play. And even worse from 3. That's supposed to be his thing. I still have moderately high hopes for him, and I think he'll be a contributor. I just don't think he's ready for that at this point against the best of the best teams in the country. Williams I believe is over a year older than Moore. He's a much more gifted athlete. That's who I'd be going with.

Yeah I just feel like Williams can get a little over zealous on both offense and defense. I've seen him get beat being too excited going after the ball instead of just staying in front of his man, and we all know how much he likes to shoot when he shouldn't (although I think he's gotten better about that). I just think Moore is a little more disciplined and basketball savvy. But either way I don't think either player is enough of a drop off from the other that it really makes a difference in any outcome so of our games the rest of the way.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

9 of the 19 teams that UC has beat have winning records

 

[Patrick Bateman]

Moore needs to change his attitude and work ethic. He messes around during warmups, not making ANY shots, taking silly shots. I am disappointed that the coaches do not see this and correct his approach.

Knowing the coach's take on offense does this surprise you? Plus the coach said that UC is not a good shooting team, so wouldnt matter anyway.

 

[GarradJ21]

This makes me think of the thread I started last month. Every year we have looked forward to the next or at least I have. We all knew this year would be special and it was.

The tournament path is everything we could have dreamed of and this is what happens. This is the sickest I have ever felt. I don't know how we even get excited about next year.

I think it's time to take a long break from thinking about UC basketball and just enjoy the spring and summer because man this hurts.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

This makes me think of the thread I started last month. Every year we have looked forward to the next or at least I have. We all knew this year would be special and it was.

The tournament path is everything we could have dreamed of and this is what happens. This is the sickest I have ever felt. I don't know how we even get excited about next year.

I think it's time to take a long break from thinking about UC basketball and just enjoy the spring and summer because man this hurts.

Yeah I won't be nearly as invested from now on. Just not worth it. We are just more comfortable losing in the 2nd round. No matter what.

 

[sedziobs]

This was the most painful sporting event I have ever experienced, even with the long history of frustration in Cincinnati. It was worse than losing to UCLA in 2002, and worse than the Reds losing three straight at home in 2012. I'm not sure I'll be willing to watch any more of the tournament this year. I need a reset. Baseball season and the World Cup can't come soon enough for me. As tough as it is right now, I think what I said earlier still applies, and I'll be back next year with the same passion.

It brings up an interesting philosophical question of what do we want as sports fans? Most of my most vivid Bearcats memories are not tournament related. Melvin Levett vs Duke, Kenyon vs DePaul, Donald Little vs Marquette. Even some losses provided special memories, like Eric Hicks' missed three vs Villanova. Lots of exciting moments from tournaments where we didn't make a run too, like Bobbitt vs East Tennessee St, Caupain vs UConn. I think my college basketball fandom is due to the unpredictability of the sport, combined with getting to experience the full journey of individual players and squads. Although I'm always rooting for tournament success, I don't need it. In a single elimination format, having a superior team and a good game plan is no guarantee. I embrace the randomness. It's exciting.

In sports, it's always on to next year whether you win or not. Last year's final four teams are just as hungry for success as anyone else. I think the will to win is much more important than winning itself. A deep tournament run would be amazing, and would give us so many more great memories. But, personally, I don't need one to enjoy all the time I put into following the Cats.

Our generally consistent upward trajectory is probably coming to an end. Although, we all thought the same thing after the 99-00 season. Kenyon failed to advance past the second round in his 4 years and we expected a big drop off with DerMarr and Mickeal leaving too. But then we went to the sweet sixteen for the first time in 5 years in 2001.