UCLA

[Gotcha23]

Let's be real. Before he signed Lawrence, the recruiting class looked pretty ugly. Three 3-star guys and one with zero stars. Lawrence definitely sweetened the pot to make it look considerably better, but based on posters on here who have seen him play, they haven't painted a real rosey picture of him. It is amazing to land a 5-star player. Don't get me wrong. But when I look at Memphis and see two 5-stars and three 4-stars, ours pales in comparison. It sounds like Strickland may be considerably better than his rating, but maybe Lawrence is worse as well. We won't know till they get here. I've seen hundreds of freshmen step foot on our court over the years, and the vast majority had very little impact in year one, no matter how highly they were rated.

I'm with you as far as the fans doing their part. It's far enough past the ground zero days that you would think bygones would have been forgotten. I thought the Sweet 16 would have carried over to increased fans this year, but we didn't sell out a single game. The amount of fans increased, but the way we finished down the stretch will leave a very bad taste in people's mouths. I suspect it will take a deeper run in the NCAA than a Sweet 16, or a top 5 recruiting class, before the level of fanaticism will reach what it used to be. Outside of these forums, the level of zeal toward our basketball program is much lower. Nobody in here wants to here that, but that's the truth.

Recruiting has never been about the location, academics or weather around a school. It's always been about the COACH. Schools like Memphis and UNLV out recruit us every year because of their coach and they are in garbage conferences. Mick is NOT a top recruiter but he's done pretty well for himself.

 

[JasonS]

Let's be real. Before he signed Lawrence, the recruiting class looked pretty ugly. Three 3-star guys and one with zero stars. Lawrence definitely sweetened the pot to make it look considerably better, but based on posters on here who have seen him play, they haven't painted a real rosey picture of him. It is amazing to land a 5-star player. Don't get me wrong. But when I look at Memphis and see two 5-stars and three 4-stars, ours pales in comparison. It sounds like Strickland may be considerably better than his rating, but maybe Lawrence is worse as well. We won't know till they get here. I've seen hundreds of freshmen step foot on our court over the years, and the vast majority had very little impact in year one, no matter how highly they were rated.

I'm with you as far as the fans doing their part. It's far enough past the ground zero days that you would think bygones would have been forgotten. I thought the Sweet 16 would have carried over to increased fans this year, but we didn't sell out a single game. The amount of fans increased, but the way we finished down the stretch will leave a very bad taste in people's mouths. I suspect it will take a deeper run in the NCAA than a Sweet 16, or a top 5 recruiting class, before the level of fanaticism will reach what it used to be. Outside of these forums, the level of zeal toward our basketball program is much lower. Nobody in here wants to here that, but that's the truth.

Would you take Russ Smith from UL on your team right now?

 

[L-T]

Would you take Russ Smith from UL on your team right now?

Obviously yes, but what does that have to do with this discussion? I understand that there are lower rated guys who turn out to be studs and higher rated guys who are busts. The point is, everyone is raving about a class ranked around 25th like we are on our way to the top of the charts. If you are going to have a quick fix to the ugliness we saw on the court this year, you need far better than a 25th rated class.....unless of course the experts were wrong and all these guys turn out to be diamonds in the rough. Based on the classes we've seen for the last six years from Mick, I tend to believe it'll be the other way around. We'll wait a while before we see them make much of an impact. I hope I'm wrong because we need a lot of help now!

 

[JasonS]

Obviously yes, but what does that have to do with this discussion? I understand that there are lower rated guys who turn out to be studs and higher rated guys who are busts. The point is, everyone is raving about a class ranked around 25th like we are on our way to the top of the charts. If you are going to have a quick fix to the ugliness we saw on the court this year, you need far better than a 25th rated class.....unless of course the experts were wrong and all these guys turn out to be diamonds in the rough. Based on the classes we've seen for the last six years from Mick, I tend to believe it'll be the other way around. We'll wait a while before we see them make much of an impact. I hope I'm wrong because we need a lot of help now!

So a trip to the NCAA Tourney is "ugliness we saw on the court this year?" I think you should set some realistic expectations. Ugliness is not making the tourney for 5 years after essentially giving yourself the death penalty. Would you have called this season "ugly" if we lost in the first round like Georgetown or would that have been ok since we would have been a 2 seed? No matter what anyone says, college basketball is about making the big dance and then from there it is always a crap shoot. You hope that your team is in a good situation and playing well to make a run, but matchups are everything.

I don't look at this team as needing a lot of help. If SK leaves, which I don't see happening, that would be the largest impact to this team. As of right now you are bringing back your leading scorer, a versatile wing in Rubles that will be better next year, a RS Sophomore in Shaq Thomas that showed why he can be a scoring threat next season and JJ who, despite some people's thoughts on this site, is a nice player who is good defensively and will be better offensively. The cupboard is not bare. Throw in the fact that typically the biggest jump in growth as a player comes between the second and third year in the program and there are a bunch of guys who could have break out seasons next year. Guyn, Sanders, JDIII, and Shaq are all going to be in their third year in this program. So where are the question marks for next year? At the 1 and the 5. Not ideal for sure but not as gloomy as it seems. JJ will play the 5 a decent amount next year IMO and this team will have to play more up tempo as a result. Guyn and JDIII will compete for the 1 and frankly, if JDIII is healthy and this year of practice wasn't a total loss because of injury, he could be that type of penetrating guard we need. I wouldn't even count out Kelvin Gaines next year. He is not going to be a scoring machine but I think he could be a nice role player and give us some minutes defending in the post. Maybe I am an optimist, but I don't see all the doom and gloom some people are projecting.

 

[TheLongHaul]

Recruiting has never been about the location, academics or weather around a school. It's always been about the COACH. Schools like Memphis and UNLV out recruit us every year because of their coach and they are in garbage conferences. Mick is NOT a top recruiter but he's done pretty well for himself.

I mostly agree but Memphis recruiting has A LOT to do with location. Just look at where all their 5* players have come from.

 

[L-T]

So a trip to the NCAA Tourney is "ugliness we saw on the court this year?" I think you should set some realistic expectations. Ugliness is not making the tourney for 5 years after essentially giving yourself the death penalty. Would you have called this season "ugly" if we lost in the first round like Georgetown or would that have been ok since we would have been a 2 seed? No matter what anyone says, college basketball is about making the big dance and then from there it is always a crap shoot. You hope that your team is in a good situation and playing well to make a run, but matchups are everything.

I don't look at this team as needing a lot of help. If SK leaves, which I don't see happening, that would be the largest impact to this team. As of right now you are bringing back your leading scorer, a versatile wing in Rubles that will be better next year, a RS Sophomore in Shaq Thomas that showed why he can be a scoring threat next season and JJ who, despite some people's thoughts on this site, is a nice player who is good defensively and will be better offensively. The cupboard is not bare. Throw in the fact that typically the biggest jump in growth as a player comes between the second and third year in the program and there are a bunch of guys who could have break out seasons next year. Guyn, Sanders, JDIII, and Shaq are all going to be in their third year in this program. So where are the question marks for next year? At the 1 and the 5. Not ideal for sure but not as gloomy as it seems. JJ will play the 5 a decent amount next year IMO and this team will have to play more up tempo as a result. Guyn and JDIII will compete for the 1 and frankly, if JDIII is healthy and this year of practice wasn't a total loss because of injury, he could be that type of penetrating guard we need. I wouldn't even count out Kelvin Gaines next year. He is not going to be a scoring machine but I think he could be a nice role player and give us some minutes defending in the post. Maybe I am an optimist, but I don't see all the doom and gloom some people are projecting.

My definition of ugly is not being able to shoot the ball into the ocean. My definition of ugly is not being able to execute a simple inbounds play. My definition of ugly is getting more excitement out of watching paint dry than watching our offense. And, lastly, my definition of ugly is finishing in 10th place in the league. Yeah, we made the tournament, but our program should be a lot better than being excited just to make the tournament.

Honestly, Bearcat Jeff has indicated that it is all about the tournament. For me, it's about the journey. It's a whole season of games and the tournament is the icing on the cake. I never put too much emphasis on what happens at the end. If the season of 30 something games was exciting and fun, I look at it as a success, no matter what happens in March. If we cap it off with a great March, then it's even that much better. This year, the way it unfolded, there's no way I could call it fun or exciting. It was pretty boring to be honest. So, the fact that we made the tournament doesn't cancel out how we looked getting there, and our tournament performance was more of the same. Last year...totally different. The season was fun and exciting, and so was the tournament. Wonderful season!

Now, I actually agree with everything you said in your 2nd paragraph...and you are an optimist, but it all could very well happen. I see the potential in every single player that you are seeing. They all need to work hard in the off-season, and they need to be "coached up". But, without any sure thing on the inside at this time, we could be in for more of the same next year from our outside game.

 

[JasonS]

My definition of ugly is not being able to shoot the ball into the ocean. My definition of ugly is not being able to execute a simple inbounds play. My definition of ugly is getting more excitement out of watching paint dry than watching our offense. And, lastly, my definition of ugly is finishing in 10th place in the league. Yeah, we made the tournament, but our program should be a lot better than being excited just to make the tournament.

Honestly, Bearcat Jeff has indicated that it is all about the tournament. For me, it's about the journey. It's a whole season of games and the tournament is the icing on the cake. I never put too much emphasis on what happens at the end. If the season of 30 something games was exciting and fun, I look at it as a success, no matter what happens in March. If we cap it off with a great March, then it's even that much better. This year, the way it unfolded, there's no way I could call it fun or exciting. It was pretty boring to be honest. So, the fact that we made the tournament doesn't cancel out how we looked getting there, and our tournament performance was more of the same. Last year...totally different. The season was fun and exciting, and so was the tournament. Wonderful season!

Now, I actually agree with everything you said in your 2nd paragraph...and you are an optimist, but it all could very well happen. I see the potential in every single player that you are seeing. They all need to work hard in the off-season, and they need to be "coached up". But, without any sure thing on the inside at this time, we could be in for more of the same next year from our outside game.

I guess our fundamental difference is that I am with Jeff and it is all about the Tourney for me, to a degree. I enjoy the regular season for sure but it is all about making the tourney. No season is a success to me without an NCAA Tourney bid. I also don't deem the season a failure if the team doesn't advance in the tourney. Was I disappointed that the season ended against Creighton? Sure. But I wasn't disappointed in the team and don't feel the season is a failure.

 

[L-T]

I guess our fundamental difference is that I am with Jeff and it is all about the Tourney for me, to a degree. I enjoy the regular season for sure but it is all about making the tourney. No season is a success to me without an NCAA Tourney bid. I also don't deem the season a failure if the team doesn't advance in the tourney. Was I disappointed that the season ended against Creighton? Sure. But I wasn't disappointed in the team and don't feel the season is a failure.

I have a hard time feeling good about making the tournament when we finish 10th in the league, especially when we were picked to finish 4th. The only thing that could have reversed the bad taste of the regular season, would have been maybe a nice little run to the sweet 16. Then, the good and the ugly would have offset and the season would have seemed much more palatable. Instead, we looked as ugly against Creighton as we did in Jan./Feb., so it's a big drop off from last year any way that you look at it.

I'll be very surprised if the coach will significantly reverse what happened this season in the coming season, especially when transitioning to a new point guard. I stand by my previous statements that I don't feel the new guys will make that much impact, but I also feel your optimism about the returning players could potentially play out the way you laid it out. I hope you're right.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

My definition of ugly is not being able to shoot the ball into the ocean. My definition of ugly is not being able to execute a simple inbounds play. My definition of ugly is getting more excitement out of watching paint dry than watching our offense. And, lastly, my definition of ugly is finishing in 10th place in the league. Yeah, we made the tournament, but our program should be a lot better than being excited just to make the tournament.

Honestly, Bearcat Jeff has indicated that it is all about the tournament. For me, it's about the journey. It's a whole season of games and the tournament is the icing on the cake. I never put too much emphasis on what happens at the end. If the season of 30 something games was exciting and fun, I look at it as a success, no matter what happens in March. If we cap it off with a great March, then it's even that much better. This year, the way it unfolded, there's no way I could call it fun or exciting. It was pretty boring to be honest. So, the fact that we made the tournament doesn't cancel out how we looked getting there, and our tournament performance was more of the same. Last year...totally different. The season was fun and exciting, and so was the tournament. Wonderful season!

Now, I actually agree with everything you said in your 2nd paragraph...and you are an optimist, but it all could very well happen. I see the potential in every single player that you are seeing. They all need to work hard in the off-season, and they're need to be "coached up". But, without any sure thing on the inside at this time, we could be in for more of the same next year from our outside game.

Cronin has averaged 24.6 wins lthe last three years and made the tourney. Scoring across colleges basketball was down. So making the tourney and winning over 20 games is boring. Winning isn't good enough? They have to look a certain way doing it? Do you know how many teams can claim they made the dance 3 years in a row? So I understand this. If we go 28-2 and lose in first round that is OK? The recruits Mick has brought in have won lots of games last three years. This years class is his highest rated. I'd say that would call for some optimism. Excitement for me is making the tourney with a chance to win national title. The regular season is about earning a chance to make the field and seeding. That's what makes it exciting.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I have a hard time feeling good about making the tournament when we finish 10th in the league, especially when we were picked to finish 4th. The only thing that could have reversed the bad taste of the regular season, would have been maybe a nice little run to the sweet 16. Then, the good and the ugly would have offset and the season would have seemed much more palatable. Instead, we looked as ugly against Creighton as we did in Jan./Feb., so it's a big drop off from last year any way that you look at it.

I'll be very surprised if the coach will significantly reverse what happened this season in the coming season, especially when transitioning to a new point guard. I stand by my previous statements that I don't feel the new guys will make that much impact, but I also feel your optimism about the returning players could potentially play out the way you laid it out. I hope you're right.

r something to consider is that the people who picked us fourth really overestimated our abilities. They also made the prediction not knowing our PG would be injured. I also would bet that they folks who made those predictions if polled today would probably say they based their opinion on a tad more production out of our post players. Fact is with injury to cash and lack of inside scoring we probably played up to our talent. This team gave its all.Played hard and won over 20 games and made the dance. Sure I wanted more but it wasn't meant to be.

 

[JasonS]

I have a hard time feeling good about making the tournament when we finish 10th in the league, especially when we were picked to finish 4th. The only thing that could have reversed the bad taste of the regular season, would have been maybe a nice little run to the sweet 16. Then, the good and the ugly would have offset and the season would have seemed much more palatable. Instead, we looked as ugly against Creighton as we did in Jan./Feb., so it's a big drop off from last year any way that you look at it.

I'll be very surprised if the coach will significantly reverse what happened this season in the coming season, especially when transitioning to a new point guard. I stand by my previous statements that I don't feel the new guys will make that much impact, but I also feel your optimism about the returning players could potentially play out the way you laid it out. I hope you're right.

Don't forget that when Dixon bounced the ball off his leg against WVU in NYC, everyone in the offseason was saying the same thing about Dion that they are saying about these sophomores: How are these guys going to be able to contribute next year. People thought Dion was going to never be a player after that. He put in a lot of hard work and became an integral part of this team. Obviously, Dion had shown that he was a good player prior, but the similarity is that the players will need to put in the effort in the offseason and anything is possible.

 

[L-T]

r something to consider is that the people who picked us fourth really overestimated our abilities. They also made the prediction not knowing our PG would be injured. I also would bet that they folks who made those predictions if polled today would probably say they based their opinion on a tad more production out of our post players. Fact is with injury to cash and lack of inside scoring we probably played up to our talent. This team gave its all.Played hard and won over 20 games and made the dance. Sure I wanted more but it wasn't meant to be.

I'm going to bring up something here and I'm not doing it to start a big pissing contest, but this is where the problem with this forum lies. You just flat out claim that the problem lies with the people who picked us fourth, that they somehow overestimated us. But, you refuse to even consider, that maybe, just maybe, they were dead nuts on that prediction and Mick just did a poor job of coaching them. It's easy to sit here in hindsite and say we were over-estimated. You don't have a clue whether we were overestimated or Mick just coached poorly. If you love Mick, obviously you'll conclude the experts didn't know what they were talking about rather than question him. By the way, Mick said Cash wouldn't be playing if he wasn't healthy, so the injury excuse should have ended then, but we're still calling him injured today.

I realize that a prerequisite for posting on all these forums is that you must love Mick unconditionally, but outside of these forums is a radically different opinion of everything than what you get here. You may be 100% correct and we were overestimated, but the coaching staff may also be 100% to blame as well. That's why we debate and discuss these things. The difference is that you can express your opinion without fear of being attacked or banned. Everyone else is on a short leash.

Again people, not trying to start a fight here, just pointing out how it's never Mick's fault when things don't go right....and suddenly just making the tournament is a success, when it was once a failure to make the tournament and win one game.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I'm going to bring up something here and I'm not doing it to start a big pissing contest, but this is where the problem with this forum lies. You just flat out claim that the problem lies with the people who picked us fourth, that they somehow overestimated us. But, you refuse to even consider, that maybe, just maybe, they were dead nuts on that prediction and Mick just did a poor job of coaching them. It's easy to sit here in hindsite and say we were over-estimated. You don't have a clue whether we were overestimated or Mick just coached poorly. If you love Mick, obviously you'll conclude the experts didn't know what they were talking about rather than question him. By the way, Mick said Cash wouldn't be playing if he wasn't healthy, so the injury excuse should have ended then, but we're still calling him injured today.

I realize that a prerequisite for posting on all these forums is that you must love Mick unconditionally, but outside of these forums is a radically different opinion of everything than what you get here. You may be 100% correct and we were overestimated, but the coaching staff may also be 100% to blame as well. That's why we debate and discuss these things. The difference is that you can express your opinion without fear of being attacked or banned. Everyone else is on a short leash.

Again people, not trying to start a fight here, just pointing out how it's never Mick's fault when things don't go right....and suddenly just making the tournament is a success, when it was once a failure to make the tournament and win one game.

That is what you got out of my post?

First Mick isn't going to come out and tell the opposition his starting point guard Is not 100 percent. He waited until after the season and informed everyone Cash played through multiple injuries. Same thing all coaches would do. I also hope your not implying I attacked you for your opinion. I don't agree with your assessment but your certainly entitled to it as am I mine.

Secondly, basketball is a team game. Players and coaches performance affect the outcome. The TEAM!!! I think the team played up to their talent level. Your use of the word experts is funny. They make a prediction prior to strat of the season and that is gospel? They haven't even seen them play a t that point
Mick didn't meet your expectation. I'm fine with that. I have eyes and have coached. My opinion is that he did well with pieces he had. Do I want more of course. I want to win a title. If I didn't think Mick could grow as a coach and deliver that I would say so. He is building a solid program and I'm happy with his progress including this year.

 

[Gotcha23]

I mostly agree but Memphis recruiting has A LOT to do with location. Just look at where all their 5* players have come from.

Very good point, I overlooked that. I didn't realize TN has great basketball talent to be honest.

 

[JasonS]

Very good point, I overlooked that. I didn't realize TN has great basketball talent to be honest.

Yeah, the Memphis area seems to be loaded with talent nearly every year.