Mostly it's because of comparisons to Brooks. Yes, Vogt has played well on offense - but he has been horrible at offensive rebounding - he has 2 offensive rebounds in his last 100+ minutes of play - and not great on the boards. Brooks was a very good all around player, Vogt is excellent at scoring when posted deep, but average to a liability in most other aspects.
Jaevin is very similar at guard. Excellent at offense, but average defensively and can't rebound. The difference is that people aren't comparing Jaevin to a guy who was very good in all three aspects (not sure we've had a guard who is a very good scorer, rebounder and defender lately, maybe Caupain). If people were, I'd be pointing out the difference there as well.
Not saying he will keep it up but so far vogt getting 18.9 points 10.1 boards 1.8 blocks per 40 min Brooks last year 14.0 11.0 and 2.5 I think Brooks rebounding ability in comparison to vogt so far is minimal and considering a good amount of people on here said vogt wasn't even a back up center should be thrilled with his play
Gotta say I’m impressed with mcneals body language on the bench when he’s going through this slump, when players aren’t performing well and have an attitude about it, it can be a cancer to the team, McNeal is the was genuinely cheering the team on yesterday even though his minutes got taken away from him by maw.
I think maw has looked really good the last 2 games and I’m excited to see what he can do, but a lot of people seem to be giving up on McNeal, that game against bowling green definitely hurt his confidence, but I think as the season goes on he will still be solid for us
That being said I think maw has played a lot better than him the last 2 games, but I think McNeal is in a slump is all
In our 5 games against teams that are better than 199 kenpom, Vogt has averaged less than 1 (0.8) offensive rebound per game and slightly over 5 (5.2) rebounds per game.
I know you can call that cherry picking, but Alabama A&M and Illinois St. were the two worst and most undersized teams we have faced. 12 of his 16 offensive rebounds came in those two games and almost half (23) of his 49 total rebounds also came in those two games.
This is far from “historically horrible.” At least don’t make things up.
You can say the same about Brooks and his stats. He was usually garbage against the best teams we played last year.
When the hell did I say it was historically horrible?
In our 5 games against teams that are better than 199 kenpom, Vogt has averaged less than 1 (0.8) offensive rebound per game and slightly over 5 (5.2) rebounds per game.
I know you can call that cherry picking, but Alabama A&M and Illinois St. were the two worst and most undersized teams we have faced. 12 of his 16 offensive rebounds came in those two games and almost half (23) of his 49 total rebounds also came in those two games.
You’re trying really hard to put Vogt down. It’s weird.
You didn’t, justinhub did. Was just using your post to say it wasn’t that bad.
Agree, he probably should have said that. Doesn’t help anything, and gives fuel to people that already had questions.When I said historically horrible I meant:
19-20 UC: #298 (64.3%)
18-19 NKU: #303 (67.1)
17-18 NKU: #128 (72.7)
16-17 Nku: #259 (68.0)
15-16 NKU: #260 (67.7)
It’s strange that a team so skilled as his were at Nku we’re such poor free throw shooters. 1 team in 5 years being an average free throw shooting says that at least based on historic precedent, we can expect the free throw shooting to not improve much.
And free throw shooting was a huge factor in a lot of their losses at Nku.
I’m just stating the facts but not much opinion input. Point was he said they don’t practice free throws, and the numbers say... it shows.
I think the kind of statement “we don’t practice free throws” should have been kept to him self. If we just won a game after making 30 of 30 free throws, the. Yea throw out that tidbit. But don’t say it’s after it nearly kills you for the 3rd time .
Brooks' top shot blocking games were against Wichita St, SMU, East Carolina, Tulsa and NKU. He also had 2 blocks against OSU, Houston, Wichita, UConn, UCLA, and Memphis among others.
His top OREB games were against Houston, Wichita, SMU, and Memphis and had 4 OREB against OSU, UCF, Houston, and Temple among others.
His top scoring games included UCLA, Houston, UConn, Wichita, and Memphis.
He had some bad games against good teams, and some good games against good teams. He certainly didn't show a tendency to feast on weak teams, and it is not accurate to say that he was usually garbage against the best teams.
This is his scoring output in the other games against good teams. In full disclosure this was taken from another poster on another board and I didn't check them all for accuracy but I assume it's true.
"OSU - 7 points
George Mason - 3 points
Ole Miss - 4 points
UNLV - 9
Xavier - 4
Miss. State - 7
Memphis - 0....I repeat....0
Houston - 7
Wichita- 3
UCF - 2
Houston - 2"
Again, I'm not basing this on going back through all of UC game logs but I have a hunch his OREB numbers are inflated because he collected a good percentage of his first shot misses. Which tended to not be rare for Brooks to clank off the front rim or back iron.
All of this said, I dont get why Skyblade continues to being Brooks into every thread. Brooks is the one who decided to leave UC for his senior year. I highly doubt anyone wanted him to go.
I haven't been the one to bring Brooks up. I have responded to comments comparing Vogt to Brooks.
I don't hate Vogt, he's done much better than I anticipated. His FT shooting and foul rates, along with his scoring have been quite good.
But Brooks was a high-quality all around center and one of the best offensive rebounders in the country - other teams had to game plan to keep him off the offensive boards. Vogt is very good offensively and average or worse everywhere else. They aren't comparable.
As for why I bring up that Vogt's rebounding numbers being inflated by feasting on the two worst teams we have played. It's because from what I see - eye test - Vogt is below average to bad at rebounding - and really bad on the offensive end, but because of those two games, statistically he doesn't appear that bad.
Eye test is great and facts are facts and the fact is in 13.8 mpg in his career Brooks has 3.4 rpg in 12.5 mpg Vogt has 3.4 rpg quit acting like Brooks is far superior to Vogt at rebounding.I haven't been the one to bring Brooks up. I have responded to comments comparing Vogt to Brooks.
I don't hate Vogt, he's done much better than I anticipated. His FT shooting and foul rates, along with his scoring have been quite good.
But Brooks was a high-quality all around center and one of the best offensive rebounders in the country - other teams had to game plan to keep him off the offensive boards. Vogt is very good offensively and average or worse everywhere else. They aren't comparable.
As for why I bring up that Vogt's rebounding numbers being inflated by feasting on the two worst teams we have played. It's because from what I see - eye test - Vogt is below average to bad at rebounding - and really bad on the offensive end, but because of those two games, statistically he doesn't appear that bad.
But i do think the Brannen staff would have done wonders for Brooks footwork and offensive fundamentals. Lets be real, Cronin wasn't great at developing footwork from his bigs offensively.