Vanderbilt

[cincyguy13]

If you aren’t good, you aren’t going to look tough. If you win, you are. At the beginning of the year, I heard about how tough xavier was and how their culture was about toughness. Well, they are on the bubble again and might miss the tournament for the 4th year in a row. Culture and toughness is great thing to talk about but just be good at basketball.

My point is, you aren’t going to look tough if you are a bad team.

 

[cincrulz11]

I know Cincinnati is all about toughness, but that just can't be the main goal. We've been as tough as anybody for 20 years. It has resulted in 2 sweet 16s in 20 years.


The game is evolving from beat you up in the lane and take your lunch money basketball. Now the game is all about skill and shooting.

 

[sedziobs]

The Pippen kid is good but, give me 5 wide open 3's I'm going to knock them down too.

He was fouled on two of them, so I'm not sure I'd consider that wide open. I seem to remember another one being a step back that was pretty well defended. He's just a good player who had a hot shooting night.

The one where Diarra sprinted to the baseline and left him standing wide open was comical though. There was another play where I think Davenport shifted his feet to invite a drive to the baseline. But there was no defender anywhere near the baseline on that side of the basket, so it was an easy layup. Those two plays are our defense in a nutshell. Complete miscommunication and lack of awareness.

 

[cincrulz11]

The one where Diarra sprinted to the baseline and left him standing wide open was comical though. There was another play where I think Davenport shifted his feet to invite a drive to the baseline. But there was no defender anywhere near the baseline on that side of the basket, so it was an easy layup. Those two plays are our defense in a nutshell. Complete miscommunication and lack of awareness.

The Diarra one was hilarious. His decision to go triple team the ball 20 feet away and leave Pippen open was awesome.


Our guys look so uncomfortable on defense. They don't know how to help, they even seem unsure of where to stand when guarding off the ball.


There have been so many times lately when we clearly force the ball to one direction thinking there will be help, and everybody else has their back to the ball for an easy layup.


But the offensive movement is good and we are shooting 37.6% from 3 as a team our last 4 games (and 39.2% if you take out DeJulius' 0-4 in his last game with us).

 

[cincyguy13]

The Diarra one was hilarious. His decision to go triple team the ball 20 feet away and leave Pippen open was awesome.


Our guys look so uncomfortable on defense. They don't know how to help, they even seem unsure of where to stand when guarding off the ball.


There have been so many times lately when we clearly force the ball to one direction thinking there will be help, and everybody else has their back to the ball for an easy layup.


But the offensive movement is good and we are shooting 37.6% from 3 as a team our last 4 games (and 39.2% if you take out DeJulius' 0-4 in his last game with us).

The helping on defense is the most alarming thing about the team. It has been for two years. I don’t know if it’s just the players or the system though. Because sometimes it’s look good when Vogt isn’t on the floor. Even with dou at the end of the year last year. So maybe it’s the players we have not being able to execute. I really don’t know but I know that simply not helping is never been a part of basketball but I’ve never seen players not helping as much as I have the last two years.

 

[cincyguy13]

I know Cincinnati is all about toughness, but that just can't be the main goal. We've been as tough as anybody for 20 years. It has resulted in 2 sweet 16s in 20 years.


The game is evolving from beat you up in the lane and take your lunch money basketball. Now the game is all about skill and shooting.

This. Being tougher than the other team doesnt win games. Surprised people haven’t learned that the last 20 years.

 

[TheLivingLegend]

This. Being tougher than the other team doesnt win games. Surprised people haven’t learned that the last 20 years.

It's a combination of both. Basketball flow/IQ and toughness. And it appears we went from one extreme to the other.

 

[cincyguy13]

It's a combination of both. Basketball flow/IQ and toughness. And it appears we went from one extreme to the other.

We just aren’t good. We could be the toughest team in America this year and we still wouldn’t be good. Our players either aren’t good, Vogt dou, or not good yet. Our freshmen. We have 2 players that are decent most nights. Jd and Kieth and that’s just not enough

 

[sedziobs]

The helping on defense is the most alarming thing about the team. It has been for two years. I don’t know if it’s just the players or the system though.

I don't think it's the system, I think it's the execution. (1-3-1 is the system, I don't understand using that more than a few possessions per game). Poor execution can be the fault of players and coaches. Lack of practice would really hurt. Defensive assignments should be practiced over and over again until they are ingrained as reflexive and instinctual. If players have to think and weigh decisions, it's too late. That's true of any system. All of the problems are magnified with underclassmen who haven't practiced much due to this year's restrictions.

 

[TheLivingLegend]

We just aren’t good. We could be the toughest team in America this year and we still wouldn’t be good. Our players either aren’t good, Vogt dou, or not good yet. Our freshmen. We have 2 players that are decent most nights. Jd and Kieth and that’s just not enough

Agreed.. but when you aren't a good team things rely on toughness, grit... Manning up and defending guys. Boxing out. Etc.

We unfortunately don't do that at this point.

 

[Loser Mentality]

We just aren’t good. We could be the toughest team in America this year and we still wouldn’t be good. Our players either aren’t good, Vogt dou, or not good yet. Our freshmen. We have 2 players that are decent most nights. Jd and Kieth and that’s just not enough

In regard to toughness, the last few games we've lost, just an ounce of "I'm not going to let you do this" may have helped. Lack of Leadership.

These teams aren't much better than us "Vanderbilt", but with a lack of mental toughness and a strong desire to win no matter what, we have seen our results.

We've been getting outworked in almost all aspects of defense. For us not be be that good of a shooting team, then our D has to always be a step above the rest.

If Vogt WANTED to Grab 10 Rebs a game he could, regardless his skill set, IQ whatever, and that goes for any other player rather it's rebounds, assists, etc. At some point you have to want it as an individual, which usually bleeds to the rest of the team. Right now we just don't have that.

 

[TheRealMick]

We got out toughed again, and it's a major theme in most or not all of our losses this year. Not saying the guys Brannen recruited aren't capable of being any player they set their minds to be, but these are nice guys, and that's a recipe for disaster in the AAC of at least toughness that has been branded by our program.

We need recruits and players with an edge, but maybe that is where Brannen the Diplomat maybe draws the line. Who knows?

The Pippen kid is good but, give me 5 wide open 3's I'm going to knock them down too.

Our players helped the other Teams Players off the floor, at any given moment. Those acts of kindness are a small display of weakness, that other teams and coaches take notice of and exploit. Of course not being a jerk about it, but maintaining our competitive edge which the players and program have yet to reach under Brannen.

No way he’s a diplomat but let his players help other teams up off court!

 

[TheRealMick]

If Keith Williams had killer instincts no way in hell he lets freshman dominate like that. Lack of toughness

 

[cincyguy13]

In regard to toughness, the last few games we've lost, just an ounce of "I'm not going to let you do this" may have helped. Lack of Leadership.

These teams aren't much better than us "Vanderbilt", but with a lack of mental toughness and a strong desire to win no matter what, we have seen our results.

We've been getting outworked in almost all aspects of defense. For us not be be that good of a shooting team, then our D has to always be a step above the rest.

If Vogt WANTED to Grab 10 Rebs a game he could, regardless his skill set, IQ whatever, and that goes for any other player rather it's rebounds, assists, etc. At some point you have to want it as an individual, which usually bleeds to the rest of the team. Right now we just don't have that.

I disagree. Vogt tries. He works hard. He’s not coordinated and can’t move. Our guys work hard but they aren’t there yet or don’t really know what’s going on. It always looks like you aren’t working hard when aren’t good.

 

[Loser Mentality]

I disagree. Vogt tries. He works hard. He’s not coordinated and can’t move. Our guys work hard but they aren’t there yet or don’t really know what’s going on. It always looks like you aren’t working hard when aren’t good.

Read your post over and over about 70 times, and then ask yourself why is he here?

You make it seem as if he is 5'9 lol. He plays timidly.

It's okay to be honest, he's 7 ft tall. End of discussion.

I also think it's unfair of you to limit his possibilities.

No excuse can save reality, but does offer the idea of Vogt being used incorrectly on defense.

 

[skyblade]

I think Brannen was forced to go zone because of foul trouble, which resulted in lots of open threes and offensive rebounds. Eason, Diarra, and Vogt combined for 12 fouls in only 43 minutes. We definitely looked like a team full of underclassmen.

Diarra picked up 2 fouls in the final minute, so between him and Vogt there wasn't a ton of foul trouble.

We went to the zone because we couldn't defend Pippen in man-to-man. Brannen mentioned after the game, we struggled in pick-and-roll defense. Vogt doesn't have the ability to hedge out hard enough to stop the 3 and also stop the drive, he struggles against players a lot less quick than Pippen. Against Pippen, Vogt had no chance.

Eason also struggled to properly hedge out to prevent the shot and drive. Diarra did better, but that brings up the second problem. Getting bigs switched onto Pippen. Brannen's defense isn't supposed to switch, but Pippen's quickness forced us to switch our big man onto him in the pick-and-roll pretty consistently. Again, Diarra did better at not switching than Eason, but neither exceled. Once they got the big switched onto Pippen, Vandy had a major advantage.

Most of Eason's fouls came when he was switched onto Pippen. Both Pippen driving on him and Pippen shooting threes when Eason got to far off. Diarra of course had they case where he just left Pippen completely, I assume that it was actually a poorly communicated attempt to switch off Pippen, rather than randomly deciding to triple team.

 

[cincyguy13]

Read your post over and over about 70 times, and then ask yourself why is he here?

You make it seem as if he is 5'9 lol. He plays timidly.

It's okay to be honest, he's 7 ft tall. End of discussion.

I also think it's unfair of you to limit his possibilities.

No excuse can save reality, but does offer the idea of Vogt being used incorrectly on defense.

It’s not about being tall. The best rebounders usually aren’t the tallest. He can’t move, he doesn’t have the highest bball iq, he doesn’t read the ball off the rim. He’s not good. His height doesn’t change that. If the ball doesn’t come directly to him, he’s not getting it

 

[skyblade]

Well we can’t go back in time and develop one this year. Brannen tried and missed on a couple high school guys. He did try but he has put the team in this position. Best case scenario to piece together something next year, while developing something. Maybe the Russian guy is better than Vogt or dou. That’s all I want next year. Someone who isn’t Vogt or dou.

Yeah and Brannen has put us in a position where our best option for next year is probably Vogt or Diarra coming back. At least they know the system. He needed to get a project big in year 1 or at least year 2. Go back and you can find me harping on the subject.

Vogt is the best big man transfer that Brannen has gotten in two years. What reason is there to believe he can do better next year?

I'd be amazed if Lakhin is any good. Watch the twitter video of him knocking down threes. Yeah he can shoot, but he is slow footed and has a slow release.

We can't go back in time, but we can get rid of the guy who put us in this position. So Brannen better figure something out.

 

[Loser Mentality]

It’s not about being tall. The best rebounders usually aren’t the tallest. He can’t move, he doesn’t have the highest bball iq, he doesn’t read the ball off the rim. He’s not good. His height doesn’t change that. If the ball doesn’t come directly to him, he’s not getting it

Really lol!
Vogt had no business for the last 2 seasons on defense to be anywhere but inside the free line rectangle at all times.

We all saw what he was not able to do, but coach never adjusted, and kept running him out there to be abused, driven by, or to pick up or create fouls for team members. Instead of coaching to Vogt's strength lol! Created total loss of self confidence, for an area of his game that had not improved.

Seriously, if Vogt was used as a rim protector this year, I think some outcomes may have changed that could have resulted in wins.

Keeping him in the paint on defense would have allowed him to be more experienced and a deterrent in the paint. Let those with the ability to chase, chase players etc.

Vogt was sort of set up for failure, just to run the "D" how the Coach wanted instead of the "D" being catered to his current Big Man's ability.

Wasn't he a Pre Season All Conference Selection?

 

[sedziobs]

Diarra picked up 2 fouls in the final minute, so between him and Vogt there wasn't a ton of foul trouble.
...
Most of Eason's fouls came when he was switched onto Pippen.

Even if you remove Diarra's two fouls at the end of the game, he still had 2 in his other 10 minutes. Vogt had 3 in 10 minutes. Eason had 5 in 21 minutes. A team can't sustain picking up a foul every 4 minutes from the same position. Regardless of who was playing the 5, they were picking up fouls at a rapid pace when we were playing man (probably more like a foul every 2 minutes).

You seem to acknowledge that by stating Eason's fouls resulted from a switch. That's part of man defense. I'm not saying our man defense was good at all, but foul trouble was certainly part of why we had to play so much zone.