Wow, we have been thinking about this ALL WRONG

[Thegreatone]

Maybe we are thinking too black and white about this conference situation.

I admit that I fell into the trap. Imagining UC getting invited to the Big XII and having Texas and OU coming to PBS. All the money that the conference would bring us. A chance at major recruits.

Have we forgotten that this Big East got us to 2 BCS games.

Have we forgotten that WE WERE 1 SECOND FROM THE NATIONAL TITLE

We have a chance at a BCS title every single year in this conference. We have finished in the Top 25 three out of four years.

We are in the premier basketball conference in the country. Even without Pitt and Cuse we are still in one hell of a league that is one of the best in the country and some years will still be the best.

What is our incentive to go to the Big XII again?

We need to stop thinking in the LivingLegend/caveman way of thinking and saying Big XII is a lot better than Big East so we should go there. Why? We are in a BCS league that we can win and have won.

Do people really think we will become Texas or OU?

WE ALL AGREE THAT HALF OF THE SEC WOULD WIN THE BIG EAST EACH YEAR..... So while those meat heads are playing in lesser bowls we are playing in the Orange and Sugar bowls and coming WITHIN 1 SECOND OF THE NATIONAL TITLE.

It sounds like UC has something figured out....

Of coarse this is all contingent on the Big East keeping BCS which seems very likely.

 

[DontMissHim]

I understand that view point. But, IMO- going to the big 12 would make UC football program much better and more of a powerhouse. Just being in the better football conference they would get better recruits. UC would make a lot more money on TV deal and such.

As it is--going undefeated in the Big East won't be enough for any team to get to the NC. If UC were to go undefeated next year, they would still need other teams to lose. A one loss big 12 champ UC would have a better shot at the NC then an Undefeated Big East UC team. Ask Boise/TCU the difficulty of depending on other things to happen. I don't think UC needs to back down...they are in a position where they could explode going to the Big 12, IMO. I don't understand why UC would back down from the challenge and try and back into the NC by staying in the Big East.

Staying in the Big East because its easier is a weak mentality. I don't think UC should be scared of joining the Big 12

 

[ralph1950]

I understand that view point. But, IMO- going to the big 12 would make UC football program much better and more of a powerhouse. Just being in the better football conference they would get better recruits. UC would make a lot more money on TV deal and such.

As it is--going undefeated in the Big East won't be enough for any team to get to the NC. If UC were to go undefeated next year, they would still need other teams to lose. A one loss big 12 champ UC would have a better shot at the NC then an Undefeated Big East UC team. Ask Boise/TCU the difficulty of depending on other things to happen. I don't think UC needs to back down...they are in a position where they could explode going to the Big 12, IMO. I don't understand why UC would back down from the challenge and try and back into the NC by staying in the Big East.

Staying in the Big East because its easier is a weak mentality. I don't think UC should be scared of joining the Big 12

The Big East is the right conference for UC and where they will stay, the Big 12 is a bad fit for UC.

 

[Thegreatone]

I understand that view point. But, IMO- going to the big 12 would make UC football program much better and more of a powerhouse. Just being in the better football conference they would get better recruits. UC would make a lot more money on TV deal and such.

As it is--going undefeated in the Big East won't be enough for any team to get to the NC. If UC were to go undefeated next year, they would still need other teams to lose. A one loss big 12 champ UC would have a better shot at the NC then an Undefeated Big East UC team. Ask Boise/TCU the difficulty of depending on other things to happen. I don't think UC needs to back down...they are in a position where they could explode going to the Big 12, IMO. I don't understand why UC would back down from the challenge and try and back into the NC by staying in the Big East.

Staying in the Big East because its easier is a weak mentality. I don't think UC should be scared of joining the Big 12

Not true, at least not all of 2 years ago. UC would have been selected for the NC game had Texas not had 1 second put on the clock. WVU would have been in the NC in 07 if they had beat Pitt. That is 2 chances the Big East has had in the past 5 years.

I agree UC football would be improved if we went to the Big XII but my question is can the make a HUGE improvement to be competitive. We would be SO FAR behind OU and Texas in money and support that we would always be the a middle of the road program with a couple of years to compete.

Dont confuse being scared with knowing your capabilities. UC would not have the support or means to compete consistently with these schools. We can compete for Big East titles every year right now.

Basketball makes a ton of sense to stay in the Big East.

If we can convince WVU and U of L to stay it is obviously our best option IMO

 

[JasonS]

Not true, at least not all of 2 years ago. UC would have been selected for the NC game had Texas not had 1 second put on the clock. WVU would have been in the NC in 07 if they had beat Pitt. That is 2 chances the Big East has had in the past 5 years.

I agree UC football would be improved if we went to the Big XII but my question is can the make a HUGE improvement to be competitive. We would be SO FAR behind OU and Texas in money and support that we would always be the a middle of the road program with a couple of years to compete.

Dont confuse being scared with knowing your capabilities. UC would not have the support or means to compete consistently with these schools. We can compete for Big East titles every year right now.

Basketball makes a ton of sense to stay in the Big East.

If we can convince WVU and U of L to stay it is obviously our best option IMO

The key thing no one has mentioned yet is, while the level of recruits would improve, they would still not match the levels of Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, etc. Therefore, you may have a better team but you will also have more obsticles to get to a BCS game. UC has the chance to go to a BCS game every year in the Big East as it is currently constructed. UC might get to go once every 10 years (and that may be generous) in the Big 12. The only way the Big 12 makes sense is if the Big East implodes or loses it's AQ status. With potential lawsuits and the fact that there is no criteria or precedent in place to take away an AQ bid, the Big East is pretty safe in terms of keeping it. Assuming they do, UC needs to stay in the Big East.

 

[TheLivingLegend]

This is a terrible way of thinking. Cmon Greatclown, your better then this. Do you really want to turn into the A10's of the world?

For me, as a premier athlete in the state, I want nothing more then to play the best of the best every day. And if UC EVER wants elite players, they are in the same boat as me. They HAVE to prove themselves on the best stage if they want to get paid.

Theres a reason xavier has never won a final four ect.. Big time recruits dont go to the A10's of the world, nor will they come play football at UC.

 

[ucdave]

All good points. I do think the Big East is the better fit for UC especially if they want to get to a BCS bowl. The Big 12 has been in existence since 1996 and during that time there's been only 5 B12 championships won by a school not named Texas or Oklahoma. Nebraska won 2, Colorado, Kansas St. and Tex A&M each won 1. Realistically, not much of a chance to win the conference. That being said, I agree with Thegreatone - the key is convincing UL and WVU to stay in the Big East. May be too tall a task, I don't know. If they jump to Big 12, I think UC has to go if offered.

 

[TheLivingLegend]

Dont confuse being scared with knowing your capabilities. UC would not have the support or means to compete consistently with these schools.

Basketball makes a ton of sense to stay in the Big East.

What a loser like mentality!?!?! Sure UC can compete for the Big East title every year. But how then does UC get to the next level? Are you and Ralphy on the same page and content with losing two BCS bowl games and just being satisfied getting there?


Big East basketball will still be fine, but being content with the lack luster football schools in the conference is clownlike.

 

[Thegreatone]

How are going to compete with Texas and OU? Because we get into the Big XII? All of the sudden major recruits flock to Cincy and we sell out PBS every year and are in contention for National titles?

You have to think outside the box. It isn't as simple as Big XII is better than Big East so we should go there.

Okl St, Tenn, A&M are all "on the next level" but what has that gotten them??? Losing to the OU's, Texas, and SEC giants of the world. But since they can win 8 games a year and recruit a better athletes than that what we want to be.

If UC can win Big East titles consistently we can get to the next level. Not SEC or OSU, OU, Texas type levels but we can get to the next level. We can get to the WVU or Va Tech level.

I am trying to help you understand this. You need to stop this black and white way of thinking and understand the entire situation. UC is where they should be.

 

[UCBearcats]

How are going to compete with Texas and OU? Because we get into the Big XII? All of the sudden major recruits flock to Cincy and we sell out PBS every year and are in contention for National titles?

You have to think outside the box. It isn't as simple as Big XII is better than Big East so we should go there.

Okl St, Tenn, A&M are all "on the next level" but what has that gotten them??? Losing to the OU's, Texas, and SEC giants of the world. But since they can win 8 games a year and recruit a better athletes than that what we want to be.

If UC can win Big East titles consistently we can get to the next level. Not SEC or OSU, OU, Texas type levels but we can get to the next level. We can get to the WVU or Va Tech level.

I am trying to help you understand this. You need to stop this black and white way of thinking and understand the entire situation. UC is where they should be.

It's funny that last week everyone was Big 12 or bust and now some guy posts on his blog that the Big East won't lose it's AQ and everyone says the Big East is where we should be.

The Big East is dying, like it or not, it will be dead eventually for football. The best move in a situation like this is to be proactive so 3 or 4 or 5 years down the road we aren't stuck without any options.

This situation is just like anything else in business, if you see a potential problem in the distance and you choose to ignore it until it's gets closer you're usually screwed. The people who have the ability to look into the future and make changes now before problems arise are the best leaders. UC needs a leader like that right now.

Let's say hypothetically that the Big East does keep it's AQ. Let's say that "some guy's" blog post was correct and the BCS as a whole keeps our AQ because they fear a lawsuit from the Big East. The national perception is already that the Big East is the red headed stepchild of the BCS. It's going to be very hard to keep our respect at the current level going forward. Perception and media hype are everything when it comes to the polls and in the future of the Big East it's going to be very hard for anyone to take our league seriously in football. So we keep our AQ and UC or WVU or Navy or Air Force get to go play in a BCS game every year. I seriously doubt that a team from the Big East will get national championship consideration in the future whether they go undefeated or not. Meanwhile, the other conferences are improving themselves, growing their brands, and snatching up more and more recruits. Either way the Big East doesn't look too attractive in the future. I believe that the Big East does lose their AQ and all of this is a moot point anyway.

The Big East did great things for this athletic program, but the Big East is dying off. It's not our fault, but it's the facts. What we need right now is for the University to hire an AD with the foresight to make sure that when the music stops in this game of musical chairs we aren't the ones left standing.

PS - Ralph, please don't comment. I know that you disagree with what I'm saying and that's great. I really don't need to see another "UC is staying in the Big East" post from you. We all know where you stand on this issue.

 

[UCBearcats]

What a loser like mentality!?!?! Sure UC can compete for the Big East title every year. But how then does UC get to the next level? Are you and Ralphy on the same page and content with losing two BCS bowl games and just being satisfied getting there?


Big East basketball will still be fine, but being content with the lack luster football schools in the conference is clownlike.

Couldn't agree more. There is NOTHING wrong with expecting that your school be great. Too many UC fans have this mentality that we're just little old UC and we should be happy that we even play in the Big East.

It's bullcrap, this is a major university that sits in a large city and competes against a professional football team and an accomplished state school for the interest of it's fan base. Why would anyone be content with accepting mediocrity?

 

[Thegreatone]

I am not surprised that people on here want us to move to the Big XII because we need to "expect greatness".

We are all fans that have no problem paying money to go to games and support the program. If we had more people like us we SHOULD go to the Big XII. We don't have that.

The support is not there and to assume we are going to get the support after we move to Big XII is insane.

Be careful what you wish for is all I am saying. It is not as simple as "we should expect greatness".

Also to those saying The Big East is dying:

Losing Pitt and Cuse is the death of the Big East? You know the Big East has lost Miami FL, BC, Va Tech and was fine don't you?

Why didnt the Big East lose it's AQ status when they lost those schools and added C-USA schools USF, UC, U of L??? Because it is near impossible to take away AQ status. There is no reason to do it. Why condence your reach to just in the south by having 4 teams from SEC in the BCS.

We can not take the approach that we should expect to be OSU or FLA or we will never get there. We need to get to the WVU/Va tech level first.

No one wants UC to go to the Big XII and win titles every year more than me. I just choose to look at this from all angles and understand we need to become dominate in this conference before we go to the Big XII unprepared. I am not interested in becoming Baylor. I do not want to have our best year in 10 years be a 3rd place finish.

 

[Thegreatone]

Couldn't agree more. There is NOTHING wrong with expecting that your school be great. Too many UC fans have this mentality that we're just little old UC and we should be happy that we even play in the Big East.

It's bullcrap, this is a major university that sits in a large city and competes against a professional football team and an accomplished state school for the interest of it's fan base. Why would anyone be content with accepting mediocrity?

How exactly is 1 second from a national title mediocrity?

How exactly is 2 BCS games in the past 3 years mediocrity?

How exactly is 3 top 25 finishes in the past 4 years mediocrity?

Big East has been better to the Bearcats than ANY other school.

 

[Thegreatone]

I would love to hear you guys explain to me how Cincy is going to support the move to the Big XII.

We went to 2 BCS games and after a couple of losses and a coach leaving we can't sell out 35 k Nippert?

We have had tremendous success and have not been able to gain the support of the city.

So please explain to me why it would be different if we were going 6-6 in the Big XII. If we can support the program to the point we are selling 65k PBS every year when Iowa State comes in then I am all in.

UC vs U of L which is arguably our biggest rival will not sell 40,000 seats with about 5k U of L fans.

I don't think you guys are being realistic.

 

[ucswais]

I'm a Big East guy, but I will say this about the support...

Support everywhere takes time, history, tradition and even then has a tremendous lag behind actual success. UC will have 50K fans if and when entire generations of Cincy residents grow up going to Nippert rather than watching OSU on TV. If they can sustain the success for a long period of time, it will come. People are creatures of habit. It will take years to get people into the habit of "Saturdays are for Bearcat football" in the same way it is other places. The flip side to that is that once this happens, its also really hard to break.... even if the team starts losing. How many get togethers are still happening every Saturday at schools that haven't been good in years? A lot.

 

[UCBearcats]

How exactly is 1 second from a national title mediocrity?

How exactly is 2 BCS games in the past 3 years mediocrity?

How exactly is 3 top 25 finishes in the past 4 years mediocrity?

Big East has been better to the Bearcats than ANY other school.

I never said that we are mediocre. We are a great program, that's my point. We were great under Brian Kelly and I think we have a chance to be great under CBJ.

We were great under Bob Huggins and even though I haven't been a huge supporter of Mick it looks like I might be wrong about him.

My point is that people in our fan base need to realize that we can be and have been a great athletic program. I'm not saying that we are OSU, Oklahoma or Texas - but there is no reason why we should try to get to that level.

A lot of people worried about the move to the Big East, people said our football program was a joke and we couldn't compete on a national level. People said that our basketball program wouldn't be able to compete with the big boys. Football has been great in the Big East. Basketball has had some issues, but I think we're getting back to a level where we need to be.

Remember how great it felt to go to those BCS bowls? Remember 12-0, being ranked #3 in country, coming 1 second from a nat'l championship invite, radio stations running promos talking trash to OSU fans, t-shirts that read bUCeye State? That's the way it should be all the time. It's not realistic to think that we'll be there every year but the fan base should certainly EXPECT that we'll be there every year. Instead, most people just view that time as a fluke, saying it's never happen again and we should just bite the bullet and die with the Big East, or even worse go back to C-USA. It's that mentality that I have a problem with.

I'm not an expert on AQ status and conference re-alignment but where there is smoke there is fire and it seems that everyone believes in the demise of the Big East. Maybe it never happens, maybe the Big East keeps it's AQ. I'm in the mindset of us being proactive with our future and not waiting around to see where the chips fall. In this climate we should be marketing ourself out and doing anything and everything we can to secure our future. It's not our fault the climate of college sports is what it is right now but if we wind up playing in a subpar conference because we chose not to act right now then that is our fault.

Maybe we aren't a viable candidate for any of the bigger conferences but I don't believe that. I think we're a very viable school and we should look at all of our options and have the confidence as a university that we belong at the table with the rest of the big boys. If your fans don't believe that you're for real then how can you expect anyone else to believe it.

 

[UCBearcats]

I would love to hear you guys explain to me how Cincy is going to support the move to the Big XII.

We went to 2 BCS games and after a couple of losses and a coach leaving we can't sell out 35 k Nippert?

We have had tremendous success and have not been able to gain the support of the city.

So please explain to me why it would be different if we were going 6-6 in the Big XII. If we can support the program to the point we are selling 65k PBS every year when Iowa State comes in then I am all in.

UC vs U of L which is arguably our biggest rival will not sell 40,000 seats with about 5k U of L fans.

I don't think you guys are being realistic.

I don't know the answer to how we can support it, but I am 100% sure that we can. It's not my job to answer your question. What UC needs to do is make sure that they have someone in place as an AD who can answer those questions. We shouldn't come to the table at any conference and say, "what do you need us to do so we can get an invite from you". We should come to the table and say, "here's why you should want us in your conference". How is Pittsburgh any more attractive to a major conference then we are? Because they play their games at Heinz Field? The ACC doesn't make any more or less money if Pitt is packing the joint or pulling in 30k a game.

You mentioned us not being able to sell 35k a game. I just read an article yesterday about how Baylor can't even sell 30k a game and they are ranked in the top 25 for the first time in God knows how long. If Baylor, Kansas State, Kansas, and Iowa State can survive in the Big 12 then why would you think that we can't? I think we could immediatly survive as a middle of the pack team in the Big 12 or the ACC. With a couple of years to get our feet under us and the right leadership at the top there is no reason why we couldn't thrive in one of the major conferences. If you don't believe that last sentence then I'm afraid that you are the one who is looking at this all wrong.

 

[ralph1950]

Why would UC want to join the Big 12 when it is only a matter of time before Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and Missouri leave?

 

[Thegreatone]

I never said that we are mediocre. We are a great program, that's my point. We were great under Brian Kelly and I think we have a chance to be great under CBJ.

We were great under Bob Huggins and even though I haven't been a huge supporter of Mick it looks like I might be wrong about him.

My point is that people in our fan base need to realize that we can be and have been a great athletic program. I'm not saying that we are OSU, Oklahoma or Texas - but there is no reason why we should try to get to that level.

A lot of people worried about the move to the Big East, people said our football program was a joke and we couldn't compete on a national level. People said that our basketball program wouldn't be able to compete with the big boys. Football has been great in the Big East. Basketball has had some issues, but I think we're getting back to a level where we need to be.

Remember how great it felt to go to those BCS bowls? Remember 12-0, being ranked #3 in country, coming 1 second from a nat'l championship invite, radio stations running promos talking trash to OSU fans, t-shirts that read bUCeye State? That's the way it should be all the time. It's not realistic to think that we'll be there every year but the fan base should certainly EXPECT that we'll be there every year. Instead, most people just view that time as a fluke, saying it's never happen again and we should just bite the bullet and die with the Big East, or even worse go back to C-USA. It's that mentality that I have a problem with.

I'm not an expert on AQ status and conference re-alignment but where there is smoke there is fire and it seems that everyone believes in the demise of the Big East. Maybe it never happens, maybe the Big East keeps it's AQ. I'm in the mindset of us being proactive with our future and not waiting around to see where the chips fall. In this climate we should be marketing ourself out and doing anything and everything we can to secure our future. It's not our fault the climate of college sports is what it is right now but if we wind up playing in a subpar conference because we chose not to act right now then that is our fault.

Maybe we aren't a viable candidate for any of the bigger conferences but I don't believe that. I think we're a very viable school and we should look at all of our options and have the confidence as a university that we belong at the table with the rest of the big boys. If your fans don't believe that you're for real then how can you expect anyone else to believe it.

Great post with excellent points. While I think staying in the Big East is the best move for UC I can see what your saying and I don't totally disagree.

We are both working off of assumptions. I am assuming the Beast keeps AQ Status and WVU and U of L stay on board. You are assuming we can be successful and make another conference upgrade like we did with the Big East.

Nice post. We need more of this.

 

[TheLivingLegend]

We are all fans that have no problem paying money to go to games and support the program. If we had more people like us we SHOULD go to the Big XII. We don't have that.

The support is not there and to assume we are going to get the support after we move to Big XII is insane.

The support is not there because people dont want to watch Big East Football. Period.

To the average person Big East football doesnt even compare.