Wow, we have been thinking about this ALL WRONG

[Thegreatone]

I don't know the answer to how we can support it, but I am 100% sure that we can. It's not my job to answer your question. What UC needs to do is make sure that they have someone in place as an AD who can answer those questions. We shouldn't come to the table at any conference and say, "what do you need us to do so we can get an invite from you". We should come to the table and say, "here's why you should want us in your conference". How is Pittsburgh any more attractive to a major conference then we are? Because they play their games at Heinz Field? The ACC doesn't make any more or less money if Pitt is packing the joint or pulling in 30k a game.

You mentioned us not being able to sell 35k a game. I just read an article yesterday about how Baylor can't even sell 30k a game and they are ranked in the top 25 for the first time in God knows how long. If Baylor, Kansas State, Kansas, and Iowa State can survive in the Big 12 then why would you think that we can't? I think we could immediatly survive as a middle of the pack team in the Big 12 or the ACC. With a couple of years to get our feet under us and the right leadership at the top there is no reason why we couldn't thrive in one of the major conferences. If you don't believe that last sentence then I'm afraid that you are the one who is looking at this all wrong.

I am not interested in "surviving". I want to excel in my conference. If that is Big East or Big 12 I want to be the team to beat.

 

[UCBearcats]

Why would UC want to join the Big 12 when it is only a matter of time before Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and Missouri leave?

Let's say that we go to the Big 12 and in 5 years those 4 schools leave to create the Pac-16. What's the worst thing that happens? We wind up consolidating into some newly formed conference with the remaining Big 12 and Big East schools and you can still have your Boise St, UCF, Temple, Villanova, Houston conversations if you want to. Hell Ralph, you can even call that new conference the Big East if you want.

Let's say we don't go to the Big 12 and stay in the Big East. What's the worst thing that can happen? Worst thing is that those teams don't bolt for the Pac 16 and we're stuck playing in a conference with UCF, Temple and Villanova while WVU, UConn, Rutgers and UL are whoring themselves out to anyone who will take them.

The best case scenario for staying in the Big East is the worst case scenario for going to the Big 12. It's as simple as that. How you don't see that is mind boggling to me. If an invite comes, UC is going to take it, no questions about it.

I personally think we should be lobbying like crazy to get into ACC.

 

[UCBearcats]

I am not interested in "surviving". I want to excel in my conference. If that is Big East or Big 12 I want to be the team to beat.

Did you finish reading my paragraph?

 

[UCBearcats]

Great post with excellent points. While I think staying in the Big East is the best move for UC I can see what your saying and I don't totally disagree.

We are both working off of assumptions. I am assuming the Beast keeps AQ Status and WVU and U of L stay on board. You are assuming we can be successful and make another conference upgrade like we did with the Big East.
Nice post. We need more of this.

Of course we are. When it boils down to it I don't really know $hit. I am not an insider, don't claim to be. I'm just a huge UC fan and all this conference re-alignment talk is on my mind. This is a great outlet to debate points with other UC fans. At the end of the day we're all UC fans and we hopefully all want whats best for the athletic program. I just believe that staying around the Big East isn't going to be what's best for us down the road.

 

[DontMissHim]

I would love to hear you guys explain to me how Cincy is going to support the move to the Big XII.

We went to 2 BCS games and after a couple of losses and a coach leaving we can't sell out 35 k Nippert?

We have had tremendous success and have not been able to gain the support of the city.

So please explain to me why it would be different if we were going 6-6 in the Big XII. If we can support the program to the point we are selling 65k PBS every year when Iowa State comes in then I am all in.

UC vs U of L which is arguably our biggest rival will not sell 40,000 seats with about 5k U of L fans.

I don't think you guys are being realistic.

This is something I didn't think about. Going to the Big 12 could actually be the death of the UC football program. I mean, UC won back to back Big East titles and the fan base was thriving. They had one bad year and I feel like their is just no support in the city. I hardly hear about the UC football team right now.

If UC goes to the big 12, I am not so sure the program could endure three or four losing seasons until they got the team to compete with the better half of the big 12? Stay in the Big East and continue to grow the program. Keep staying at the top of the Big East and once the program is ready- make the jump. Until then, making the jump to early could easily crash the football program.

 

[ralph1950]

The support is not there because people dont want to watch Big East Football. Period.

To the average person Big East football doesnt even compare.

23,000 UC fans went to the Sugar Bowl in New Orleans, only 4,000 went to the final 4 in Minneapolis; Minneapolis at 700 miles is 100 miles closer to Cincinnati than New Orleans at 800 miles.

 

[ralph1950]

Let's say that we go to the Big 12 and in 5 years those 4 schools leave to create the Pac-16. What's the worst thing that happens? We wind up consolidating into some newly formed conference with the remaining Big 12 and Big East schools and you can still have your Boise St, UCF, Temple, Villanova, Houston conversations if you want to. Hell Ralph, you can even call that new conference the Big East if you want.

Let's say we don't go to the Big 12 and stay in the Big East. What's the worst thing that can happen? Worst thing is that those teams don't bolt for the Pac 16 and we're stuck playing in a conference with UCF, Temple and Villanova while WVU, UConn, Rutgers and UL are whoring themselves out to anyone who will take them.

The best case scenario for staying in the Big East is the worst case scenario for going to the Big 12. It's as simple as that. How you don't see that is mind boggling to me. If an invite comes, UC is going to take it, no questions about it.

I personally think we should be lobbying like crazy to get into ACC.

The Big East has two valuable assets, the Champion in football plays in one of the 5 BCS Bowl games, the Basketball Tourney is held at Madison Square Garden. That is why you stay in the Big East. The Big 12 is a very bad fit geographically for UV and their basketball tourney is played in Kansas City.

 

[UCBearcats]

The Big East has two valuable assets, the Champion in football plays in one of the 5 BCS Bowl games, the Basketball Tourney is held at Madison Square Garden. That is why you stay in the Big East. The Big 12 is a very bad fit geographically for UV and their basketball tourney is played in Kansas City.

The Big 12 also has a champion who plays in the one of the 5 BCS bowl games, so your first point is a wash.

Basically that leaves you with the MSG argument. So what you're telling me is that our president and AD are in a room with the board talking about an invite to the Big 12 and deciding if they should accept it or not (this is a hypothetical scenario) and they decide to turn down the offer because the Big East plays it's basketball championship at MSG????

Please explain to me why UC as an individual school cares about playing it's basketball tourney at MSG. Do we get a bunch of money for it every year or something?

I'm not really sure I even understand what playing our tournament at MSG has to do with anything. The Big 12 has a bball tourney too and with a 12 team league can also hold a football championship game that brings in a bunch of money for the universities to split.

Ralph, I'm not saying that we are going to the Big 12, I don't even know if they want us. For you to keep saying that UC will turn down their invite doesn't make any sense. You can't give any logical reason why we would. It's really not a logistical nightmare either. In case you didn't notice UC isn't exactly on the East Coast. We're in the mid-west, Texas, Iowa, Kansas and Oklahoma aren't any further away than Florida, NY or Connecticut are and we travel to those places on a regular basis right now.

I know you've been saying all along that we're going to stay in the Big East and you may wind up being right about that. We may stay in the Big East because it's the only option we have. If the Big 12, SEC, ACC or Big 10 send us an invite we are going to accept it in a heartbeat.

 

[JasonS]

As I have said all along, if the Big East can keep it's AQ status, UC needs to stay in the Big East. If not, try to get into the Big 12. The Big East needs to get the schools to commit to the same grant of rights deal the Big 12 has. If they do that, there will be stability in the conference. Someone (DontMissHim I think?) wondered if UC going to the Big 12 could actually be the "death" of the football program. I think there is something to that. UC has not been a great program long enough to withstand several 6-6 seasons. I think UC could do well in the Big 12 in time but will the fans be there by the time that happens? UC is not going to compete with Texas and Oklahoma for players. Just being in the Big 12 does not make it so. Kansas can't compete with Texas and Oklahoma for players. The only thing that can get UC to the next level is finding a coach who has success and STAYS at UC. Virginia Tech would not be the power they are if their coach had left several years ago. They are not a traditional power. UC is a lot like Virginia Tech. If Butch Jones sticks around and builds something here and UC has the kind of success we all hope, UC could become a place where top players want to come. The only thing that will do that is consistent WINNING. That is not going to happen in the Big 12. We all need to be truthful with ourselves. If the Big East loses it's AQ status then UC has to bite the bullet, try to get into the Big 12 and hope for the best.

 

[DontMissHim]

23,000 UC fans went to the Sugar Bowl in New Orleans, only 4,000 went to the final 4 in Minneapolis; Minneapolis at 700 miles is 100 miles closer to Cincinnati than New Orleans at 800 miles.

out of curiosity, how many sell outs has the football team had this year? how many do they expect? (They won't sell out either paul brown game). I would be surprised if there weren't more sell outs for the basketball team this year then the football team.

 

[Bearcat_NTS]

out of curiosity, how many sell outs has the football team had this year? how many do they expect? (They won't sell out either paul brown game). I would be surprised if there weren't more sell outs for the basketball team this year then the football team.

Well since there is only 1 more game at Nippert this year, I'd say zero. As for the basketball team, the only game I can see being a sellout is the Syracuse Big Monday game, Louisville is another possibility (with their fans help).

 

[ralph1950]

The Big 12 also has a champion who plays in the one of the 5 BCS bowl games, so your first point is a wash.

Basically that leaves you with the MSG argument. So what you're telling me is that our president and AD are in a room with the board talking about an invite to the Big 12 and deciding if they should accept it or not (this is a hypothetical scenario) and they decide to turn down the offer because the Big East plays it's basketball championship at MSG????

Please explain to me why UC as an individual school cares about playing it's basketball tourney at MSG. Do we get a bunch of money for it every year or something?

I'm not really sure I even understand what playing our tournament at MSG has to do with anything. The Big 12 has a bball tourney too and with a 12 team league can also hold a football championship game that brings in a bunch of money for the universities to split.

Ralph, I'm not saying that we are going to the Big 12, I don't even know if they want us. For you to keep saying that UC will turn down their invite doesn't make any sense. You can't give any logical reason why we would. It's really not a logistical nightmare either. In case you didn't notice UC isn't exactly on the East Coast. We're in the mid-west, Texas, Iowa, Kansas and Oklahoma aren't any further away than Florida, NY or Connecticut are and we travel to those places on a regular basis right now.

I know you've been saying all along that we're going to stay in the Big East and you may wind up being right about that. We may stay in the Big East because it's the only option we have. If the Big 12, SEC, ACC or Big 10 send us an invite we are going to accept it in a heartbeat.

UC gets the majority of its out of state students from the east, not west of the Mississippi. You want to stay in the Big East because it gives you a media presence in the East, therefore, in theory, able to continue to draw students from the east. So as the President of a University that draws students from the East I say lets stay in the Big East.

 

[DontMissHim]

Well since there is only 1 more game at Nippert this year, I'd say zero. As for the basketball team, the only game I can see being a sellout is the Syracuse Big Monday game, Louisville is another possibility (with their fans help).

Really? This basketball team could become a top 10 team (they will be in the top 25 to start the year, with a strong possibility of starting in the top 20) and is one of the better Big East teams...only one or two sell outs? I would expect almost every game Big East game to be a sell out at the very least.

 

[JasonS]

UC gets the majority of its out of state students from the east, not west of the Mississippi. You want to stay in the Big East because it gives you a media presence in the East, therefore, in theory, able to continue to draw students from the east. So as the President of a University that draws students from the East I say lets stay in the Big East.

So Ralph, you are actually President Williams? It all makes sense now!....or not.

 

[Thegreatone]

So Ralph, you are actually President Williams? It all makes sense now!....or not.

Could you imagine.... President Gregory (The) Ralph Williams

 

[Thegreatone]

While UC has a very large alumni and fanbase they are not always loyal like Dayton and XU. I am not sure why but it is the case.