2021-22 Open Thread

[TheRealMick]

I said all along with or without guys leaving we basically needed to upgrade the entire starting 5.

 

[MDW79]

Defense is probably why Evan Miya had us as one of 5 teams to pull 3 top 100 players out of the portal. Actually 3 from top 80. For reference Eason was 79.

Also interesting Ody was in the 300s not too far from Vogt and Nysier. Also McGinnis was in the 300s.

Could not find Hensley.

Looked like he essentially had us ahead of Mississipi State (if you were to take a composite ranking), which makes absolutely zero sense.

I'm assuming these are the 3 top 100 transfers he ranked for them...

---Rocket Watts (Michigan State)
---DJ Jeffries (Memphis)
---Garrison Brooks (North Carolina)

I'm sorry, I just don't see any possible way that's possible. The only explantion I can come up with is this is some more analytics bs.

All of these guys were highly rated recruits, who played at bigger programs, who all put some legitimate numbers.

Garrison Brooks averaged 10 and 7 this year, and averaged 17 and 8.5 the previous year. At UNC of course. Was a top 100 recruit.

Rockett Watts was a top 40 recruit. Averaged 9 pts in 22 minutes a game as a TRUE FRESHMAN for a top 10 Michigan St. team in '19-20.

DJ Jeffries was a top 50 recruit who's been a 10 and 5 guy for Memphis.

We have 3 transfers that rank higher than these????

 

[MDW79]

Apparently our highest rated transfer (#29) on Miya's tweet about having "3 top 100 transfers" is Hayden Koval.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that this Miya guy has absolutely no clue what he's talking about.

To have Koval as our best recruit is absolutely absurd. To have him above Garrison Brooks, Rocket Watts, and DJ Jeffries is downright laughable.

I think analytics has finally jumped the shark. It's gone from a useful tool to something entirely different. If numbers are telling you that a 7 and 3 guy from UNCG is a better recruit than a 10 and 7 guy from UNC then those numbers are either flawed, complete bs, or both.

 

[sedziobs]

The tweet says "according to our transfer rankings at EvanMiya.com". Those rankings and the process used to create them are free for anyone to look at. They don't handicap players for being freshman, highly recruited, playing in a major conference, or scoring lots of points individually. The rankings are exclusively based off of a player's efficiency and how the team peformed when they were on the court last year.

Watts played about the same minutes as Koval for a team that lost the play in game. He shot an abysmal 25% from three and 38% from two. He was a bad rebounder, didn't get to the FT line, and didn't get steals or blocks.

DJ Jeffries was a poor rebounder for 6'7" and a below average shooter (especially bad 56% FT). He played on a team that missed the tournament and was bad on offense.

Garrison Brooks was also a below average shooter. Taking 153 mid range shots at a sub 40% clip and shooting 60% from the FT line is not good basketball.

Even without looking at advanced analytics, these players were not great last year. The advanced analytics that include +/- say they were worse than Koval, which isn't that hard to believe. Maybe they have much higher potential (two are young), but Miya's rankings say nothing about that, and they don't pretend to.

 

[waterhead]

Looked like he essentially had us ahead of Mississipi State (if you were to take a composite ranking), which makes absolutely zero sense.

I'm assuming these are the 3 top 100 transfers he ranked for them...

---Rocket Watts (Michigan State)
---DJ Jeffries (Memphis)
---Garrison Brooks (North Carolina)

I'm sorry, I just don't see any possible way that's possible. The only explantion I can come up with is this is some more analytics bs.

All of these guys were highly rated recruits, who played at bigger programs, who all put some legitimate numbers.

Garrison Brooks averaged 10 and 7 this year, and averaged 17 and 8.5 the previous year. At UNC of course. Was a top 100 recruit.

Rockett Watts was a top 40 recruit. Averaged 9 pts in 22 minutes a game as a TRUE FRESHMAN for a top 10 Michigan St. team in '19-20.

DJ Jeffries was a top 50 recruit who's been a 10 and 5 guy for Memphis.

We have 3 transfers that rank higher than these????

Money ball. It may not be flashy but defense and efficiency is a big part of the game. It's good to have some players who can make a play of course but it's not good to have them take a ton of shots at low efficiency. Even on offense getting buckets is only part of the equation. You have to be willing to do all the other stuff when the ball is not in your hands and you also have to be willing to find an open shooter rather than take bad shots.

I still want a play maker but I am good with the rest so far. I don't know how or if we are going to get another wing...but I sure hope we can get a scorer somehow.

 

[itsamemario]

Apparently our highest rated transfer (#29) on Miya's tweet about having "3 top 100 transfers" is Hayden Koval.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that this Miya guy has absolutely no clue what he's talking about.

To have Koval as our best recruit is absolutely absurd. To have him above Garrison Brooks, Rocket Watts, and DJ Jeffries is downright laughable.

I think analytics has finally jumped the shark. It's gone from a useful tool to something entirely different. If numbers are telling you that a 7 and 3 guy from UNCG is a better recruit than a 10 and 7 guy from UNC then those numbers are either flawed, complete bs, or both.

When guys like that make rankings they look at the stats and thats about it. But thats not to say Koval isnt going to be a solid piece. The biggest reason this guy has his ranking so high is because he makes 3s, makes his free throws and blocks a lot of shots.

 

[Queens_NYC]

Looks like Lakhin is back in town and practicing with the team.

Are any of the newcomers not on campus and/or practicing yet?

 

[TheRealMick]

Looks like Lakhin is back in town and practicing with the team.

Are any of the newcomers not on campus and/or practicing yet?

I didn’t see either Newman or McGinnis

 

[Queens_NYC]

I didn’t see either Newman or McGinnis

I saw McGinnis

 

[cincrulz11]

Looks like Lakhin is back in town and practicing with the team.

Are any of the newcomers not on campus and/or practicing yet?

I thought that was Lakhin in the video. I'm glad he's back and working with the team. Rankings are whatever, but he was the 2nd highest ranked guy from last class, and I think we are pretty happy with the rest of them. If he can be an asset in the future that would be great.

 

[TheRealMick]

Lahkin looks jacked up already. I’ll like see combo of Davenport, lahkin and koval

 

[justinhub2003]

Man, Looking back at all that has transpired over the course of the last 3 years, its easy to see that the John Brannen era was a necessary evil to unite the fan base and right the ship.

Replacing a winning coach like Mick Cronin was always going to be a hard sell for a Lot of fans (Myself included), just like Mick Replacing Huggins was for the fanbase as well. But John brannen, he never really sold himself to the fan base and while he had the majority of the support, he lost more and more fans as his tenure progressed. After the info came out about him, and him hiring a sleaze ball lawyer who tried to drag Fick into muck with him, I think it was clear he lost the fans.

Couple that with Mick having success at UCLA, which I think helped heal more wounds as it made it look less like Mick was forced out and more like Mick needed to leave Cincinnati to reach his potential and I think we can all can respect that.

Then usher in Wes Miller who has now united the fan base, while Also bridging the gaps of UC's past with bringing in former players from both the Huggins Era and the Cronin Era. The fact that Mick Cronin has become one of his mentors and that he plans on meeting Huggins in West Virginia sometime soon. Wes Miller has been the perfect solution to the problem that John brannen (and Partially Mike Bohn) created.

Very rarely do you see a coach with so little ego and isn't too big to be coached and mentored by his new teams former coaches.

I have no idea how many games we are going to win next year. But I do know that UC's basketball future maybe as bright as its ever been. A new Arena, a new hungry coach, a top notch staff with former players from both eras, a United fanbase, a once depleted roster that is now restocked, a wide casted recruiting net full of high level players & a coach with an identity in mind from day one.

John Cunningham killed it through out this process.

 

[Queens_NYC]

Man, Looking back at all that has transpired over the course of the last 3 years, its easy to see that the John Brannen era was a necessary evil to unite the fan base and right the ship.

Replacing a winning coach like Mick Cronin was always going to be a hard sell for a Lot of fans (Myself included), just like Mick Replacing Huggins was for the fanbase as well. But John brannen, he never really sold himself to the fan base and while he had the majority of the support, he lost more and more fans as his tenure progressed. After the info came out about him, and him hiring a sleaze ball lawyer who tried to drag Fick into muck with him, I think it was clear he lost the fans.

Couple that with Mick having success at UCLA, which I think helped heal more wounds as it made it look less like Mick was forced out and more like Mick needed to leave Cincinnati to reach his potential and I think we can all can respect that.

Then usher in Wes Miller who has now united the fan base, while Also bridging the gaps of UC's past with bringing in former players from both the Huggins Era and the Cronin Era. The fact that Mick Cronin has become one of his mentors and that he plans on meeting Huggins in West Virginia sometime soon. Wes Miller has been the perfect solution to the problem that John brannen (and Partially Mike Bohn) created.

Very rarely do you see a coach with so little ego and isn't too big to be coached and mentored by his new teams former coaches.

I have no idea how many games we are going to win next year. But I do know that UC's basketball future maybe as bright as its ever been. A new Arena, a new hungry coach, a top notch staff with former players from both eras, a United fanbase, a once depleted roster that is now restocked, a wide casted recruiting net full of high level players & a coach with an identity in mind from day one.

John Cunningham killed it through out this process.

I'm definitely starting to feel a sense of "wholeness" within the program/fanbase again.

Seeing KMart shout out Miller and Demarr on Twitter the other day was awesome.

"This is awesome. S\O to Wes for being a man of his word and giving
@dermarrj an interview. Nothing was promised I guess DJ did his thing on that interview. @gobearcats going to be relevant again."

My only concern is that the honeymoon period may end fast with a chunk of the fanbase if we're not significantly more competitive next season.

As of now, the group we've assembled for next year looks like a "high floor/low ceiling" bunch.

I know a lot can change with our roster and the landscape of the AAC over the next 5 months but at the moment we're looking like a 3rd-5th place team in the league.

What type of momentum will we have for 22/23 if we don't even make the NIT in 21/22?

 

[justinhub2003]

I'm definitely starting to feel a sense of "wholeness" within the program/fanbase again.

Seeing KMart shout out Miller and Demarr on Twitter the other day was awesome.

"This is awesome. S\O to Wes for being a man of his word and giving
@dermarrj an interview. Nothing was promised I guess DJ did his thing on that interview. @gobearcats going to be relevant again."

My only concern is that the honeymoon period may end fast with a chunk of the fanbase if we're not significantly more competitive next season.

As of now, the group we've assembled for next year looks like a "high floor/low ceiling" bunch.

I know a lot can change with our roster and the landscape of the AAC over the next 5 months but at the moment we're looking like a 3rd-5th place team in the league.

What type of momentum will we have for 22/23 if we don't even make the NIT in 21/22?

I have zero expectations next season other than establishing identity.

It’s all about future recruiting for me

 

[waterhead]

I'm definitely starting to feel a sense of "wholeness" within the program/fanbase again.

Seeing KMart shout out Miller and Demarr on Twitter the other day was awesome.

"This is awesome. S\O to Wes for being a man of his word and giving
@dermarrj an interview. Nothing was promised I guess DJ did his thing on that interview. @gobearcats going to be relevant again."

My only concern is that the honeymoon period may end fast with a chunk of the fanbase if we're not significantly more competitive next season.

As of now, the group we've assembled for next year looks like a "high floor/low ceiling" bunch.

I know a lot can change with our roster and the landscape of the AAC over the next 5 months but at the moment we're looking like a 3rd-5th place team in the league.

What type of momentum will we have for 22/23 if we don't even make the NIT in 21/22?

I'll start with the question marks since there are fewer of them than things we can check off.

How will Miller do with X's and O's and game plan in new conference?
Lack of bucket getters to to help with scoring droughts.

But...

A hungry and tireless new coach
A stabilized roster with decent depth and quality
A better assistant and support staff
Former players from multiple eras on the staff
Former players getting on board with new coach
Return of Monster Factory
Publicity and marketing efforts seem to be better already
A generous coach giving time for better fan engagement
Players with better, tougher, winning attitudes. Seem happier
UC toughness culture to return
Not afraid to go after higher profile talented recruits
A fan base that is less divided right now

I probably missed a few but...

 

[TheRealMick]

He’s all in on establishing State of Cincinnati for UC basketball. Doing what should’ve been done 15yrs ago. Even if we fail, go after all local talent and if you miss then expand your radius. Need find way to get big from Dayton, wing from moeller and either jones(Columbus) or McMillan at PG. we can have starting five of top 100 local kids in next 2-3 yrs

 

[TheRealMick]

Wes #1 recruiting pitch is if you follow directions EVERYBODY on scholarship going to play every game. I doubt any other high major school offers that

 

[justinhub2003]

I'll start with the question marks since there are fewer of them than things we can check off.

How will Miller do with X's and O's and game plan in new conference?
Lack of bucket getters to to help with scoring droughts.

But...

A hungry and tireless new coach
A stabilized roster with decent depth and quality
A better assistant and support staff
Former players from multiple eras on the staff
Former players getting on board with new coach
Return of Monster Factory
Publicity and marketing efforts seem to be better already
A generous coach giving time for better fan engagement
Players with better, tougher, winning attitudes. Seem happier
UC toughness culture to return
Not afraid to go after higher profile talented recruits
A fan base that is less divided right now

I probably missed a few but...

Honestly our last coach was an “x’s and O’s” type coach and I didn’t walk away feeling impressed with his basketball IQ. I think in this league, it’s so much more about effort, strength, rebounding and defense than it is about about playing calling.

Brannen was 1-3 vs Houston with our losses being by 38,37 and 13. I think to beat Houston you have to match their intensity defensively, match their effort on the boards and then just hope to have a few iso playmakers to just straight up beat them. Houston isn’t going to let you run a pretty offense.

Wes Miller’s defense identity should translate right away to this leagud and I think he gives his players the same offensive freedom that Sampson does on that end.

 

[TheRealMick]

Get some good passers out of post and Houston toast.

 

[Queens_NYC]

Here's our updated OOC schedule (with 20-21 NET rankings) featuring the new addition of our road trip to Oxford.

11/9: vs Evansville (230)
11/13: vs Georgia (100)
11/16: vs Alabama A&M (325)
11/18: vs Presbyterian (315)
11/22: @ Illinois [KC MTE] (4)
11/23: @ Ark/Kan St [KC MTE] (14/176)
12/1: @ Miami(OH) (182)
12/11: @ Xavier (62)
12/14: vs Florida A&M (284)
12/21: vs Tenn Tech (316)