22-23 Team Discussion

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skyblade said:
We have a lot of depth, but little (if any) high end talent. There are minutes available anywhere for a top level guy.

If Vik, Hensley, Skillings or Reed can play at a high level, there's no one to keep them off the court.

DDJ, Newman, Davenport and Nolley are quality players at the AAC level but they all have major flaws in their game that would make them at best quality bench guys (and quite possibly not even that) if you move them to a high-level blue blood (say UCLA, because they are the high-level team I've watched the most).
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Wes says we need to score more points and shoot better. I don't know where Hensley fits in that equation unless he makes a massive jump on offense. Ody has been around a while this is his 4th year. While Skillings and Reed certainly have some high ceilings...I have not heard much about their great D other than their superb length. They still have to move their feet well.

Nolley has been a significant contributor on a stacked roster playing out of position a lot. And I think there is hope we can see better efficiencies from other players with more scoring options on the floor (JD and DDJ etc).
 
skyblade said:
We should play our best players, but it's not unthinkable Reed/Skillings or even Hensley/Ody could be one of our 5 best players.

The comparison point is that our projected top players (DDJ, Newman, Nolley, Davenport) really aren't that good. We don't have a Gary Clark/Jacob Evans type who is good to great in all facets of the game. None of our starters have the potential to be even borderline NBA guys (unless Vik starts at the 5).

If Skillings/Reed/Hensley can come in, shoot 35+% from three, play quality defense and rebound well that's likely enough to start taking minutes from almost anyone on the team.
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I don't even know what we're talking about anymore. Any player at any level who can shoot 35%+ from three, play quality defense and rebound well is going to play, even if Gary Clark and Jacob Evans are in front of them.

My point is it's going to be a lot harder for these frosh to earn 20 minutes on the wings because we already have 3 upperclassmen at those positions who are our best players on paper. Cumberland had to compete with only Evans, Johnson (who was solid, but not a 30+ min player), and to a small extent Jenifer (who was mostly a backup PG). He was going to be getting minutes simply for being healthy on that team.

I'm sure Skillings will see action every game, but barring injuries or a lineup shift, he's going to have to prove his effectiveness to get even 10 minutes. I think that's a good thing and I hope he's ready to contribute in a big way. Reed (or any of the forwards) might have a bigger opportunity because it's more likely one of the guys at those positions will not develop and be relegated to the bench.
 
sedziobs said:
I don't even know what we're talking about anymore. Any player at any level who can shoot 35%+ from three, play quality defense and rebound well is going to play, even if Gary Clark and Jacob Evans are in front of them.

My point is it's going to be a lot harder for these frosh to earn 20 minutes on the wings because we already have 3 upperclassmen at those positions who are our best players on paper. Cumberland had to compete with only Evans, Johnson (who was solid, but not a 30+ min player), and to a small extent Jenifer (who was mostly a backup PG). He was going to be getting minutes simply for being healthy on that team.

I'm sure Skillings will see action every game, but barring injuries or a lineup shift, he's going to have to prove his effectiveness to get even 10 minutes. I think that's a good thing and I hope he's ready to contribute in a big way. Reed (or any of the forwards) might have a bigger opportunity because it's more likely one of the guys at those positions will not develop and be relegated to the bench.
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Yah I don't think we are talking about guys at the middle and bottom of the roster cracking into the big minutes but just finding their way into the middle of the roster rotation for somewhere between 10-20.

We have 13 guys on this roster (Hensley being the only returnee getting less than 10mpg). When Clark came on board there were 2 PF's and one of those was Q (Ellis and Deberry played the 5). When Evans came on board there were 11 guys listed with stats on Torvik and 3 of those were Tobler, Q and a frosh Jenifer. Evans cracks the top 8 without much of a fight. And of course he was good enough to crack the top 5.

I would be ecstatic if either frosh earned 15mpg. Vik, Ody and Kalu are all going to get decent minutes almost by default. Foul trouble at the 5 will almost guarantee all 3 get 10 mpg there. I would expect the leader between 15-20. And I would expect 1 or 2 of them to see a few minutes at the 4.
 
I would also agree with Sedz that one of the best things that could happen for the frosh would be if one of the wings can steal some time at PG opening up more minutes on the wing. DDJ or anyone else really. Just 10mpg would help. The more the merrier IMO.

I don't believe our best players (most talented) are at PG...they are on the wing and we need them on the court as much as possible. I don't know if any of the wings have a good enough handle to play point (for short spurts) other than DDJ but I do hope so. Nolley? Skillings? IDK.

And I also think by seasons end DDJ could be playing more point whether he wants to or not. If Wes can sell the idea of making the dance if he can play there for more and more minutes as the season goes on...hopefully DDJ would be okay with doing that for a shot to play in the tourney. When DDJ starts making money somewhere it's likely not going to be at the 2 guard.
 
My argument is that we have a bunch of middle the roster guys and one proven shooter. We don't have an elite player who could start for any team.

It might be hard to crack into the middle of the lineup because we have a lot of depth. But there's plenty of room at the top. The ability to knock down threes and play solid defense is probably enough to break through to the top.

If the three point shooting of MAW, Phinisee, DDJ, Nolley and Newman stays about the same as their shooting last year, we are going to be desperate for guys who can spread the floor.

MAW/Phinisee are the most likely to be pushed to the bench. But I don't think anyone is completely safe.
 
skyblade said:
My argument is that we have a bunch of middle the roster guys and one proven shooter. We don't have an elite player who could start for any team.

It might be hard to crack into the middle of the lineup because we have a lot of depth. But there's plenty of room at the top. The ability to knock down threes and play solid defense is probably enough to break through to the top.

If the three point shooting of MAW, Phinisee, DDJ, Nolley and Newman stays about the same as their shooting last year, we are going to be desperate for guys who can spread the floor.

MAW/Phinisee are the most likely to be pushed to the bench. But I don't think anyone is completely safe.
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You have mentioned Hensley a couple of times as someone who could make a jump (possibly) to a much bigger role. He's a career .186 from 3 shooter and not much scoring in between. Admittedly on low volume but you seem to think other players outside the top guys can make a jump without a lot of consideration on how putting more offense on the floor could help the big minute getters. And Nolley was an all AAC guy one year and his frosh year was a big one. He's played on a stacked roster but you seem to imply he's just really not that good.

The comparison point is that our projected top players (DDJ, Newman, Nolley, Davenport) really aren't that good. We don't have a Gary Clark/Jacob Evans type who is good to great in all facets of the game. None of our starters have the potential to be even borderline NBA guys (unless Vik starts at the 5).

Help me understand what that means? Are you talking about All Americans here? Do you not see a scenario here where Nolley gets in the right situation to be able to impact the game to a high degree? DDJ is too small for 2 guard but even he has some potential for better efficiency shooting set shots rather than face guard step backs. These guys aren't liabilities IMO on either end IMO but perhaps not All American status. Do they have some weaknesses? Yah who doesn't. But it would likely take an all AAC guy or maybe honorable mention All American to just come in and take their spots. I don't think we can rely on the frosh or Hensley or Ody or Kalu etc to come in and get that done.
 
waterhead said:
You have mentioned Hensley a couple of times as someone who could make a jump (possibly) to a much bigger role. He's a career .186 from 3 shooter and not much scoring in between. Admittedly on low volume but you seem to think other players outside the top guys can make a jump without a lot of consideration on how putting more offense on the floor could help the big minute getters. And Nolley was an all AAC guy one year and his frosh year was a big one. He's played on a stacked roster but you seem to imply he's just really not that good.

Help me understand what that means? Are you talking about All Americans here? Do you not see a scenario here where Nolley gets in the right situation to be able to impact the game to a high degree? DDJ is too small for 2 guard but even he has some potential for better efficiency shooting set shots rather than face guard step backs. These guys aren't liabilities IMO on either end IMO but perhaps not All American status. Do they have some weaknesses? Yah who doesn't. But it would likely take an all AAC guy or maybe honorable mention All American to just come in and take their spots. I don't think we can rely on the frosh or Hensley or Ody or Kalu etc to come in and get that done.
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Nolley, Davenport, DDJ and Newman are solid guys. By not that good, I mean he's not an elite player. Yes he's good, they are all guys you are probably happy to have as the 3rd-6th best players on the roster if you're a high-seed NCAA tournament team (though for DDJ that's probably with him at PG).

It's hard to see any of them becoming an elite player on both ends though. Davenport/Nolley would be the most likely too, but Davenport needs a broader offensive repertoire and has defense issues and Nolley needs to be more of a catch-and-shoot guy and put on some weight to improve at defense/rebounding.

The problem is they all (besides Davenport) have the same weakness. Poor three point shooting. If that continues to be true and teams pack it in, it's easy to imagine someone else getting significant minutes if they can knock down threes. That could be Reed/Skillings, Hensley (though I'd agree he seems more unlikely) or even Vik.
 
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skyblade said:
Nolley, Davenport, DDJ and Newman are solid guys. By not that good, I mean he's not an elite player. Yes he's good, they are all guys you are probably happy to have as the 3rd-6th best players on the roster if you're a high-seed NCAA tournament team (though for DDJ that's probably with him at PG).

It's hard to see any of them becoming an elite player on both ends though. Davenport/Nolley would be the most likely too, but Davenport needs a broader offensive repertoire and has defense issues and Nolley needs to be more of a catch-and-shoot guy and put on some weight to improve at defense/rebounding.

The problem is they all (besides Davenport) have the same weakness. Poor three point shooting. If that continues to be true and teams pack it in, it's easy to imagine someone else getting significant minutes if they can knock down threes. That could be Reed/Skillings, Hensley (though I'd agree he seems more unlikely) or even Vik.
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Other than the frosh everyone was a worse (or similar) 3 pt shooter than the guys you are mentioning. Other than frosh it’s more likely the guys you mentioned get better than those who would overthrow them. I just don’t understand the argument. I also don’t think either of the frosh are known for knock down shooting or even lock down D..

Knock down lock down will work every time. Nolley is a 3 level guy. You can’t just boil it all down to 3 and D.
 
waterhead said:
You have mentioned Hensley a couple of times as someone who could make a jump (possibly) to a much bigger role. He's a career .186 from 3 shooter and not much scoring in between. Admittedly on low volume but you seem to think other players outside the top guys can make a jump without a lot of consideration on how putting more offense on the floor could help the big minute getters. And Nolley was an all AAC guy one year and his frosh year was a big one. He's played on a stacked roster but you seem to imply he's just really not that good.
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Rumor is that Hensley has made a massive jump with his three point shooting form during the off-season.

Apparently he broke his right wrist late in the season, which forced him to spend 8 weeks shooting with only his left hand as he recovered (not using his off hand to support the ball). Which resulted in a much improved shooting form, at one point Chad said he watched Hensley knock down like 15 straight in practice.

Hensley has to keep the new form in games and pressure, not revert to the old one. But there may be a big jump coming.
 
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TheRealMick said:
This my preseason starting 5

Ddj
Nolley
Hensley
Davenport
Vik
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Miller has emphasized two things he wants to see us improve at this season. One is getting longer and more athletic, he felt we were often outmatched physically last season, maybe not at every position but as a team overall.

The second is have more options and getting better on offense.

There are 4 guys who are probably going to be liabilities on defense and/or outmatched physically at their position, but perhaps also our best offensive players. Those are DDJ, Nolley, Davenport and Ezikpe. Nolley is perhaps the most debatable, but look at his EvanMiya defense numbers, his rebounding numbers and rumors from practice that his defense needs work, all together it doesn't paint a great picture.

There are plenty of options when it comes to increasing length/athleticism, but will any of them also bring offense? That's the big question. In that group I see four who seem most primed for a breakout.

Ody - has been kind of dismissed, but he was our best offensive big man last year (also the worst on defense). He has the physical skills to be much better on defense than he was last year and if he can do that, he will push to start.

Hensley - if his three point shooting really has improved he will push to start. We don't have a lot of three point shooting, combine that with his ability to guard multiple positions and he should get plenty of minutes. Even if all he brings on offense is shooting (he did start showing some ability to pass and get to the basket late season as he got more comfortable).

Vik - no more needs to be said about him.

MAW - perhaps? He has shown flashes on offense.

The rest are either too young/unknown to say expect much from at this point (Skillings, Reed, Sage) or very good/elite defenders unlikely to bring much offense (Newman, Phinisee).

The other big question is if DDJ will play PG, if he does it helps us get more size onto the court.

Given how much we struggled last year with DDJ/Davenport being physically outmatched. I find it hard to see how we can start another defensive liability with them, unless perhaps if DDJ moves to PG. DDJ's offensive game also doesn't need a lot of help, he's better at breaking guys down 1v1 than he is at team offense.

With all that said my pre-season starters prediction is:
1. MAW
2. DDJ
3. Hensley
4. Davenport
5. Vik

I think Nolley will tend to rotate with Davenport/DDJ, that way we generally max out at two defensive liabilities on the court at once. Davenport is probably better to play with DDJ to help spread the court, whereas Nolley will probably be more of a ball handler (even though he is only good at shooting when he's taking spot-up shots).
 
Phinisee
DDJ
Nolley
Davenport
Ezikpe

This is solely my prediction for what I think we'll see in Game 1. Wes will value experience before all else.
 
Queens_NYC said:
Phinisee
DDJ
Nolley
Davenport
Ezikpe

This is solely my prediction for what I think we'll see in Game 1. Wes will value experience before all else.
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What I think vs what I would like to see. The 2nd one is a better defensive team by adding Newman's length (and rebounding) and we don't lose any scoring really.

MAW
DDJ
Nolley
JD
Vik

DDJ
Newman
Nolley
JD
Vik
 
3-4-5 deep in no particular order

5. Vik, Ody, Kalu, Sage
4. JD, Kalu, Hensley, Reed
3. Nolley, Newman, (Hensley, Reed, and/or Skillings)
2. DDJ, Newman, Skillings, MAW
1. MAW, Rob, DDJ

My biggest question marks are will DDJ realize at some point the team will be best with him at the 1 both offensively and defensively? Also who will be the best player between Hensley, Reed and Skillings to pick up some remaining scraps at the 2, 3 and 4?
 
sedziobs said:
This is what I want to see too, with Nolley playing a point forward role.

I'll need to see Ezikpe and the freshmen play before forming a strong opinion on the 5 and the depth chart.
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I'll take DDJ or Nolley point forward as well. Even if for just spurts in games. Hard to think Wes grabbed Kalu without seeing a good fit for him even as an X-factor versatile big type. I can see Kalu as backup 4 or 3rd in line at the 5. That should give him plenty of quality minutes (15-20) if and when foul trouble mounts at the 5. I agree on the frosh....have to wait and see.
 
Nice to read some news on the team after practices are finally underway.

Of course coach is going to praise guys and be positive. But it's exciting to hear about people getting healthier and in better shape.

Newman says he's had the best summer since in college. That could be a good sign.

Davenport is taking leadership seriously. Hope his enthusiasm carries over to others.
 
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