AAC Media Day

[L-T]

I had heard we will see TC and GG on the floor together. I think the move will benefit G but my hope is KJ takes ownership at some point of the 2. Am I off in believing we will see some three guard sets?

To L-T's point about JJ and SK...JJ blossomed because he finally realized he wasn't a perimeter player and put the work in to be a post player. If he could of shot ft's like the bigs we have now he would of had an even better year. SK did have a great senior year, but his other three years were pretty solid too. You don't become the number 2 scorer in school history by only having a leap in your senior year. But I get what you're saying.

I said he "produces seniors who suddenly shock us by how they play". That can mean they stink for 3 years and then became a pretty good player as a senior....or....they were pretty good for 3 years, and then became a 1st team all-american as a senior. Both are equally shocking and surprising. JJ came from the scrap heap to have a stellar senior season. SK was pretty good to good for 3 years and then ascended to the absolute highest level as a senior. Nobody in their right mind would have ever forseen him becoming a 1st team all-american. It's still hard for me to believe, but he sure as hell did it! Maybe honorable mention could have been forseen, but not 1st team.

The point is, Mick has had quite a few players who many would have pushed out the door by the end of their junior year, but then they came on to have a good senior year.

 

[BearcatSpaniard513]

I said he "produces seniors who suddenly shock us by how they play". That can mean they stink for 3 years and then became a pretty good player as a senior....or....they were pretty good for 3 years, and then became a 1st team all-american as a senior. Both are equally shocking and surprising. JJ came from the scrap heap to have a stellar senior season. SK was pretty good to good for 3 years and then ascended to the absolute highest level as a senior. Nobody in their right mind would have ever forseen him becoming a 1st team all-american. It's still hard for me to believe, but he sure as hell did it! Maybe honorable mention could have been forseen, but not 1st team.

The point is, Mick has had quite a few players who many would have pushed out the door by the end of their junior year, but then they came on to have a good senior year.

Yeah I think JJ had the biggest jump in Mick's tenure here. We can put JaQuon Parker in the convo as well. Kenyon Martin probably had the most drastic change from a junior to senior that I can remember.

 

[bearcat jeff]

I said he "produces seniors who suddenly shock us by how they play". That can mean they stink for 3 years and then became a pretty good player as a senior....or....they were pretty good for 3 years, and then became a 1st team all-american as a senior. Both are equally shocking and surprising. JJ came from the scrap heap to have a stellar senior season. SK was pretty good to good for 3 years and then ascended to the absolute highest level as a senior. Nobody in their right mind would have ever forseen him becoming a 1st team all-american. It's still hard for me to believe, but he sure as hell did it! Maybe honorable mention could have been forseen, but not 1st team.

The point is, Mick has had quite a few players who many would have pushed out the door by the end of their junior year, but then they came on to have a good senior year.

As I said before, I get what your saying.

 

[UCalum08]

Just saw SMU Markus Kennedy is ineligible for the first semester. It didn't really specify why but would it be grades?! Not sure what their first half of their schedule looks like but its news worthy.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I have said for years he gets more respect nationally than he gets in Cincinnati.

Jeff, we have a very good Coach and have had for quite awhile now. He was being considered for National Coach of the year last year. We are lucky to have him. He is local and wants to be here as well. Love what he has done with this program and the best part is I think he will continue to raise the bar.

 

[L-T]

I have said for years he gets more respect nationally than he gets in Cincinnati.

Jeff, what is your basis for saying this? This is a pretty subjective viewpoint and I don't think it is factually true. In the last two national rankings of college coaches, Mick was ranked 27th and 41st (ESPN-Jul. 2014 and Athlon-Sept. 2013. That is an average of about 34. Being ranked ahead of him this year were Archie Miller, Bob McKillop, Greg McDermott, Tommy Amaker, Steve Fisher, Fred Hoiberg, Tony Bennett, Kevie Ollie, etc. A number of these coaches are nearly one-hit wonders. In other words, they recently came out of nowhere to be ranked ahead of Mick with one or two good seasons. Think about it. If Mick's first five years were viewed nationally as "phenominal" or "miraculous" or "other-worldly" as many in here claim, where the facts say he drug us out of the abyss, out of the death penalty, and back to the tournament, and now he has followed that up with 5 consecutive trips to the NCAA, a sweet 16, league championship, finals of Big East Tournament, 1st team all-american, etc., then why is he ranked only 27th or 41st? He has 9 or 10 years of sustained success, because the experts surely would classify his first 5 years as "exceptional" wouldn't they? And now 5 years straight to the tourney. McDermott, Amaker, Hoiberg, Miller, McKillop, Ollie, Bennett, etc. certainly don't have sustained success for 10 years and yet they theoretically get ranked ahead of Mick with far less sustained success. That certainly doesn't support your argument that he gets more respect nationally than he gets here.

I think he certainly belongs in that 25 to 50 grouping and I'm obviously one of his critics on here, so it appears as though the way I see him is the way he's viewed nationally. Mick is a very good coach. He is not a great coach, at least not yet. In one year he rose from 41 to 27, so he's on the rise and if he soon breaks into the top 25, then we as fans can't expect much more that that. But, when these other guys have one or two good seasons and get ranked ahead of him, that doesn't show a ton of respect for Mick, who arguably, according to a lot of you guys in here, has 10 years of a trend line that has been going up, including a first 5 years that were beyond belief.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Jeff, what is your basis for saying this? This is a pretty subjective viewpoint and I don't think it is factually true. In the last two national rankings of college coaches, Mick was ranked 27th and 41st (ESPN-Jul. 2014 and Athlon-Sept. 2013. That is an average of about 34. Being ranked ahead of him this year were Archie Miller, Bob McKillop, Greg McDermott, Tommy Amaker, Steve Fisher, Fred Hoiberg, Tony Bennett, Kevie Ollie, etc. A number of these coaches are nearly one-hit wonders. In other words, they recently came out of nowhere to be ranked ahead of Mick with one or two good seasons. Think about it. If Mick's first five years were viewed nationally as "phenominal" or "miraculous" or "other-worldly" as many in here claim, where the facts say he drug us out of the abyss, out of the death penalty, and back to the tournament, and now he has followed that up with 5 consecutive trips to the NCAA, a sweet 16, league championship, finals of Big East Tournament, 1st team all-american, etc., then why is he ranked only 27th or 41st? He has 9 or 10 years of sustained success, because the experts surely would classify his first 5 years as "exceptional" wouldn't they? And now 5 years straight to the tourney. McDermott, Amaker, Hoiberg, Miller, McKillop, Ollie, Bennett, etc. certainly don't have sustained success for 10 years and yet they theoretically get ranked ahead of Mick with far less sustained success. That certainly doesn't support your argument that he gets more respect nationally than he gets here.

I think he certainly belongs in that 25 to 50 grouping and I'm obviously one of his critics on here, so it appears as though the way I see him is the way he's viewed nationally. Mick is a very good coach. He is not a great coach, at least not yet. In one year he rose from 41 to 27, so he's on the rise and if he soon breaks into the top 25, then we as fans can't expect much more that that. But, when these other guys have one or two good seasons and get ranked ahead of him, that doesn't show a ton of respect for Mick, who arguably, according to a lot of you guys in here, has 10 years of a trend line that has been going up, including a first 5 years that were beyond belief.

You can't base 100% of his reputation nationally on 2 random coach rankings. They weren't even both from the same group ranking them. So rising from the 41 to the 27 doesn't mean anything in 2 unrelated rankings nearly a year apart. He did get AAC Coach of the Year last year. That has to count for something. I wouldn't know how he is viewed nationally compared to Cincinnati, but you have to factor in other things.

 

[L-T]

You can't base 100% of his reputation nationally on 2 random coach rankings. They weren't even both from the same group ranking them. So rising from the 41 to the 27 doesn't mean anything in 2 unrelated rankings nearly a year apart. He did get AAC Coach of the Year last year. That has to count for something. I wouldn't know how he is viewed nationally compared to Cincinnati, but you have to factor in other things.

I'm just commenting that I don't believe his national reputation is any different than we view it here in Cincinnati. Obviously, on this fan site, his reputation seems to far exceed how he is viewed nationally.

Honestly, I wouldn't take 10 Kevin Ollies over one Mick Cronin. I don't believe he is a better coach than Mick, but he won a national title. Go figure. That just goes to prove that baby steps doesn't get you much respect. You have to do something big to get the attention of the nation and recruits.

 

[JasonS]

I'm just commenting that I don't believe his national reputation is any different than we view it here in Cincinnati. Obviously, on this fan site, his reputation seems to far exceed how he is viewed nationally.

Living outside Cincinnati I can tell you his reputation is much more respected than the vocal minority in Cincinnati.

 

[#BearcatNation]

I'm just commenting that I don't believe his national reputation is any different than we view it here in Cincinnati. Obviously, on this fan site, his reputation seems to far exceed how he is viewed nationally.

Here, yes, Cronin is viewed very highly. But I know a LOT of people that have abandoned the program since Huggs was ousted. They can't come to terms with the fact that Cronin is a great coach and they just look back on the "glory days." They hate Cronin for not bringing in all sorts of McD's All Americans and not making it to the Final Four in his 3rd season.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

I'm just commenting that I don't believe his national reputation is any different than we view it here in Cincinnati. Obviously, on this fan site, his reputation seems to far exceed how he is viewed nationally.

Honestly, I wouldn't take 10 Kevin Ollies over one Mick Cronin. I don't believe he is a better coach than Mick, but he won a national title. Go figure. That just goes to prove that baby steps doesn't get you much respect. You have to do something big to get the attention of the nation and recruits.

Mick got more respect than Ollie last year when he won coach of the year in the AAC...

 

[L-T]

Mick got more respect than Ollie last year when he won coach of the year in the AAC...

Again, I'm not an Ollie fan. I don't think he is a better coach than Mick and the AAC voting reflected that. But, after that vote went down, Ollie won a national title. However, I go back to a famous quote, "Sometimes, a blind squirrel will find an acorn"!

 

[bearcat jeff]

Ollie is a good coach and an even better motivator/communicator. I'm not taking anything away from him. But I think Mick Cronin is a very good x/o guy and game planner.

Ranking coaches is often based on fleeting things like a tournament run. I look at guys like Calipari and Pastner with the talent they have had and see great recruiters but not great game coaches.

Nationally other coaches and the media speak very highly of Mick Cronin.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

Again, I'm not an Ollie fan. I don't think he is a better coach than Mick and the AAC voting reflected that. But, after that vote went down, Ollie won a national title. However, I go back to a famous quote, "Sometimes, a blind squirrel will find an acorn"!

So these so called baby steps did get Mick attention from the Nation and AAC?

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

As a long time fan of the program I couldn't be happier that he is our Coach. If he was to ever make himself available he would be hired in a minute. Could careless who likes him and who doesn't. The important thing is the BOT likes him and based on his performance he can coach here for as long as he wants.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Again, I'm not an Ollie fan. I don't think he is a better coach than Mick and the AAC voting reflected that. But, after that vote went down, Ollie won a national title. However, I go back to a famous quote, "Sometimes, a blind squirrel will find an acorn"!

The AAC voting reflected that Mick had a better coaching year then Ollie in league. The NCAA is like a whole new season. Ollie obviously got the job done. Both are good coaches and its nice to have them on our schedule.

 

[L-T]

So these so called baby steps did get Mick attention from the Nation and AAC?

Not following you. It got him attention from the Mid-Major AAC certainly. I don't see the nation clamoring over Mick Cronin. He's respected. He's done a good job. He's viewed somewhere in the 25-50 group of coaches. In basketball, Top 25 is where the attention is. If you're not there, you're not getting the attention. That doesn't mean that he can't be considered for coach of the year in an individual seasons. But, the overall body of work is just good, not great.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Not following you. It got him attention from the Mid-Major AAC certainly. I don't see the nation clamoring over Mick Cronin. He's respected. He's done a good job. He's viewed somewhere in the 25-50 group of coaches. In basketball, Top 25 is where the attention is. If you're not there, you're not getting the attention. That doesn't mean that he can't be considered for coach of the year in an individual seasons. But, the overall body of work is just good, not great.

He would be scooped up in a minute by a very good program if he made himself available. The comments Brown made are a growing trend for Mick.Are there better coaches out there, Yes but having one that is growing every year and wants to be here is huge. You know we have this same conversation every year. Your the King of the back handed compliment. You know the type Mick is good BUT..... All I can tell you is you better get used to him because he ain't going anywhere.

 

[BearcatSpaniard513]

Not following you. It got him attention from the Mid-Major AAC certainly. I don't see the nation clamoring over Mick Cronin. He's respected. He's done a good job. He's viewed somewhere in the 25-50 group of coaches. In basketball, Top 25 is where the attention is. If you're not there, you're not getting the attention. That doesn't mean that he can't be considered for coach of the year in an individual seasons. But, the overall body of work is just good, not great.

L-T do you ever have anything positive to say about our program? Mick isn't good enough, our conference isn't, our arena sucks, recruits are mediocre... Pretty hard to please it seems like.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

Not following you. It got him attention from the Mid-Major AAC certainly. I don't see the nation clamoring over Mick Cronin. He's respected. He's done a good job. He's viewed somewhere in the 25-50 group of coaches. In basketball, Top 25 is where the attention is. If you're not there, you're not getting the attention. That doesn't mean that he can't be considered for coach of the year in an individual seasons. But, the overall body of work is just good, not great.

I can't find the final voting on the AP coach of the year, but that would be the true measuring stick on where the national writers see him. He was in consideration until the end, and very well could have been in top 10. Going off some journalists list is not the end all. Journalists all have agendas and need clicks and subscriptions to drive them and keep them in business.

Bottom line, who cares what some publication thinks about Mick, he is here, not going anywhere and by all indications doesn't want to go anywhere.