Assistant Coaches

[ZCat]

If you want to donate an extra 300K per year that is earmarked specifically for assistant salaries, I’m sure the athletic department will take your call. Until then, this is a good intro into the growing and already vast gap between the P5 and everyone else...

I respect you Chad. But that’s not my point. My point is, if assistant coaches can help get better talent, it would be more beneficial to pay them and save a few million dollars on the arena. Now I would agree, the players needed a nice new locker room. They probably notice that.That’s done. As far as the arena, most of them look good to the players. I doubt that affects recruiting that much.

I love that the arena opens up some other revenue stream. But we need talent. If there are some top recruiters, the word should be out that we will take you. Even if it’s just for a few years and you move on. Then will get another top recruiter or two. please nobody answer about recruiting violations and all that. I’m not talking about doing it illegally. And I’m not talking about having the players dad for a temporary fix. If Stubblefield was that good let’s get him back! What am I missing?

You have to make the call. Assistant coaches need to know that they need to deliver if not we’re looking for somebody else. We’re struggling to get talent. And I’m sorry the P5 excuse is valid but it doesn’t excuse it all together.

 

[Chad Brendel]

I respect you Chad. But that’s not my point. My point is, if assistant coaches can help get better talent, it would be more beneficial to pay them and save a few million dollars on the arena. Now I would agree, the players needed a nice new locker room. They probably notice that.That’s done. As far as the arena, most of them look good to the players. I doubt that affects recruiting that much.

I love that the arena opens up some other revenue stream. But we need talent. If there are some top recruiters, the word should be out that we will take you. Even if it’s just for a few years and you move on. Then will get another top recruiter or two. please nobody answer about recruiting violations and all that. I’m not talking about doing it illegally. And I’m not talking about having the players dad for a temporary fix. If Stubblefield was that good let’s get him back! What am I missing?

You have to make the call. Assistant coaches need to know that they need to deliver if not we’re looking for somebody else. We’re struggling to get talent. And I’m sorry the P5 excuse is valid but it doesn’t excuse it all together.

It isn't a matter of reallocating that money in the budget. That arena money was donated or bonded for the remodel. One has zero to do with the other and is a completely false narrative that holds zero water. You want to get Stubblefield back, there needs to be another 300K per year in the basketball budget strictly earmarked for assistant salary. Until then, you are just bitching to bitch...

 

[Bcatfollower]

It isn't a matter of reallocating that money in the budget. That arena money was donated or bonded for the remodel. One has zero to do with the other and is a completely false narrative that holds zero water. You want to get Stubblefield back, there needs to be another 300K per year in the basketball budget strictly earmarked for assistant salary. Until then, you are just bitching to bitch...

So you're saying Mick has no issues negotiating more money for himself to be a top 40 paid coach but can't leverage any additional money for assistant coaches even if he needs to make 300k per year less? I think thats the point being made...

 

[ZCat]

And I don’t mean that we should not have renovated the arena. I mean, maybe we could have spent a couple of million dollars less on the arena and pump all of that into assistant coaches.

 

[cincycpaw]

It isn't a matter of reallocating that money in the budget. That arena money was donated or bonded for the remodel. One has zero to do with the other and is a completely false narrative that holds zero water. You want to get Stubblefield back, there needs to be another 300K per year in the basketball budget strictly earmarked for assistant salary. Until then, you are just bitching to bitch...

So what’s the pool of $ for assistant coaches for basketball?

 

[jacobkdoyle]

For the next round of contracts, I wonder if something like this would help our recruiting?

$2M for Head Coach

$400K Associate Head Cosch

$300K other 2 Assistant Coaches

 

[jacobkdoyle]

For the next round of contracts, I wonder if something like this would help our recruiting?

$2M for Head Coach

$400K Associate Head Cosch

$300K other 2 Assistant Coaches

This is what we pay total right now.

 

[Bearcatboy]

And I don’t mean that we should not have renovated the arena. I mean, maybe we could have spent a couple of million dollars less on the arena and pump all of that into assistant coaches.

And hes saying the donors donated the money for the new arena, if it was for the coaches they wouldn’t have donated the money

 

[Chad Brendel]

So you're saying Mick has no issues negotiating more money for himself to be a top 40 paid coach but can't leverage any additional money for assistant coaches even if he needs to make 300k per year less? I think thats the point being made...

Mick hasn't gotten a raise in 2-3 years. Remember when the narrative was "he's paid like a top 20 coach"? Now he's top 40 and falling? I also know there has been several times he has taken his end of season bonus money and given it to his assistants. Do you really think he would do that if he felt those guys weren't good at what they do?

I'm saying Mick is paid below market value at this point, and the assistant pool is below the high major average as well.

It's easy to be Joe Schmuck with your hand in someone elses pocket demanding they devalue their worth and ability to manage who works for them when you are producing a top 20 level program with top 50 level pay.

You want an elite recruiter on staff? Better be ready to commit half a million a year, and hold your nose when the FBI and NCAA come calling. That's the cost of doing business these days. Take it or leave it...

 

[Chad Brendel]

And hes saying the donors donated the money for the new arena, if it was for the coaches they wouldn’t have donated the money

Maybe the first thing we have agreed on in years...

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Mick hasn't gotten a raise in 2-3 years. Remember when the narrative was "he's paid like a top 20 coach"? Now he's top 40 and falling? I also know there has been several times he has taken his end of season bonus money and given it to his assistants. Do you really think he would do that if he felt those guys weren't good at what they do?

I'm saying Mick is paid below market value at this point, and the assistant pool is below the high major average as well.

It's easy to be Joe Schmuck with your hand in someone elses pocket demanding they devalue their worth and ability to manage who works for them when you are producing a top 20 level program with top 50 level pay.

You want an elite recruiter on staff? Better be ready to commit half a million a year, and hold your nose when the FBI and NCAA come calling. That's the cost of doing business these days. Take it or leave it...

Thanks for sharing. I'll leave it I like our program and the way its run.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Here the thing for me. And I don't understand why those of you who preach doom and gloom about landscape and widening budgets don't feel the same way. At what point can we no longer afford to pay more than so many "P6" schools for our head coach? His contract makes sense right now. It made sense when they extended him, etc. But at some point, he can't just get a raise every time the contract is up or close to being up. Based on what I see around the country, and based on our inability to pay tip top dollar for all assistant positions, why should we overextend ourselves on the head coach? He hasn't gotten a raise in 2-3 years? Ok. Why should he have? He almost left, and he's been knocked out in the 1st weekend 6 years in a row (with a 3-6 record and 4 losses vs non-"P6"). And the last game he coached was a historic loss.

At some point the head coaching salary for basketball is maxed out. I think we are at that point. A lot of you have made that clear. So when Mick's contract comes up again in 3 years, I'd say sign him to the same contract, or get someone else. If Mick wants more money, he may have outgrown this position. I don't think Mick Cronin is the only human being on earth who could compete in the AAC, recruit poorly, and get knocked out in the 1st weekend every year. So if we can find someone else who can do that or better, for cheaper, that would also give us a better chance to hire a better top recruiter. It is what it is. We paid Tuberville the same as Cronin, and now Fickell gets $500K less. Looks like as long as we are in this conference, that's about how it has to go. So if Mick sees that, knows that, and decides he wants more at a "P6" school, I say no hard feelings and good luck. It's not in the budget to pay him more and more and still offer the support needed in other area of the program.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Here the thing for me. And I don't understand why those of you who preach doom and gloom about landscape and widening budgets don't feel the same way. At what point can we no longer afford to pay more than so many "P6" schools for our head coach? His contract makes sense right now. It made sense when they extended him, etc. But at some point, he can't just get a raise every time the contract is up or close to being up. Based on what I see around the country, and based on our inability to pay tip top dollar for all assistant positions, why should we overextend ourselves on the head coach? He hasn't gotten a raise in 2-3 years? Ok. Why should he have? He almost left, and he's been knocked out in the 1st weekend 6 years in a row (with a 3-6 record and 4 losses vs non-"P6"). And the last game he coached was a historic loss.

At some point the head coaching salary for basketball is maxed out. I think we are at that point. A lot of you have made that clear. So when Mick's contract comes up again in 3 years, I'd say sign him to the same contract, or get someone else. If Mick wants more money, he may have outgrown this position. I don't think Mick Cronin is the only human being on earth who could compete in the AAC, recruit poorly, and get knocked out in the 1st weekend every year. So if we can find someone else who can do that or better, for cheaper, that would also give us a better chance to hire a better top recruiter. It is what it is. We paid Tuberville the same as Cronin, and now Fickell gets $500K less. Looks like as long as we are in this conference, that's about how it has to go. So if Mick sees that, knows that, and decides he wants more at a "P6" school, I say no hard feelings and good luck. It's not in the budget to pay him more and more and still offer the support needed in other area of the program.

And I honestly don't harp on our recruiting as much as some. But we are at serious risk of completely striking out this spring. And the shift to the offensive philosophy is all but over, with Cumberland and Broome being the last remaining guys from a few year run. Not being able to capitalize on a conference championship and 2 seed is telling. Kids seem flat out uninterested and unexcited about coming to UC (obviously not the guys we do land). We can rightly or wrongly put blame on anything we want for that, but it doesn't matter. Bc whether it's the coach, or the position we are in, like I said in the last post, overextending ourselves to keep things the same on the next contract isn't good enough. Keeping things the exact same every single year isn't good enough imo.

 

[Helicopter]

Mick hasn't gotten a raise in 2-3 years. Remember when the narrative was "he's paid like a top 20 coach"? Now he's top 40 and falling? I also know there has been several times he has taken his end of season bonus money and given it to his assistants. Do you really think he would do that if he felt those guys weren't good at what they do?

I'm saying Mick is paid below market value at this point, and the assistant pool is below the high major average as well.

It's easy to be Joe Schmuck with your hand in someone elses pocket demanding they devalue their worth and ability to manage who works for them when you are producing a top 20 level program with top 50 level pay.

You want an elite recruiter on staff? Better be ready to commit half a million a year, and hold your nose when the FBI and NCAA come calling. That's the cost of doing business these days. Take it or leave it...

Take it.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

That UCLA recruiting coordinator/assistant coach was making $224K per year. Rated as the #7 recruiter by fellow coaches just a few years ago. Seems like a bargain. Why would it be impossible to get him on the staff to try to get in with some better recruits? For the money, I'd take him over Larry Davis in a heartbeat.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

This is a competitive, cut throat business. We can't eliminate that element from our program for the sake of loyalty and personal relationships.

 

[Nayers]

Cronin has produced 3 seasons of consistently being in the rankings over the course of his career here, I wouldn't call that a top 20 program.
I think what jake and many others fear is, we got to this point the last two seasons of being top 20, and now we are in jeopardy of losing that momentum.
Have Cronin and staff plateaued ?
All factors should point towards better recruits, but nothing has come to fruition this spring.
I hope they have one or two up their sleeves!
None of us want to revert back to athletes playing defense but cant score.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

This is a competitive, cut throat business. We can't eliminate that element from our program for the sake of loyalty and personal relationships.

Jake I enjoy the games win or lose. Of course I want to win them all but what matters for me is Student athletes, graduation rates, Kids who represent the university well and help add value to the degree each person receives. Not looking for a win at all cost program. I buy my tickets and support the program and the school. When I get to the point I don't enjoy it I'll find something else to do with my time and money.

Now if there is someone else out there who can win a few more and give me the things I mentioned I'll support them but as I mentioned before, the administration better get it right if they want my support. I won't be trying to hear we tried. Competing for Conference titles, league titles and having 30 win seasons and making the dance every year plus staying within the rules are not everyday accomplishments. Especially using true student athletes who graduate and are as good character wise as Gary Clark and others. I enjoy rooting for those kind of kids. I have a personal interest in those kind of kids because I have two in my family. Being a true student athlete is not as easy as some may think. Balancing travel, practice and study time is not a piece of cake. Now if the administration and fan base want to roll the dice with a new hire so be it. As I mentioned earlier if they want my continual support they better get it right. We missed the boat on conference affiliation and to this point our investment in our Football program has not produced to the level of the dollars we invested. You and others want to hold Mick accountable I'm down with that but he isn't the only person who I have standards set for. He was 11 minutes away from kicking the door down. The administration is a lot farther away from putting this program in a position all the fans seem to want. He also did a bunch of heavy lifting in the fund raising department for the renovations all while playing second fiddle to a football program that has little or know fan interest.

 

[Nayers]

Jake I enjoy the games win or lose. Of course I want to win them all but what matters for me is Student athletes, graduation rates, Kids who represent the university well and help add value to the degree each person receives. Not looking for a win at all cost program. I buy my tickets and support the program and the school. When I get to the point I don't enjoy it I'll find something else to do with my time and money.

Now if there is someone else out there who can win a few more and give me the things I mentioned I'll support them but as I mentioned before, the administration better get it right if they want my support. I won't be trying to hear we tried. Competing for Conference titles, league titles and having 30 win seasons and making the dance every year plus staying within the rules are not everyday accomplishments. Especially using true student athletes who graduate and are as good character wise as Gary Clark and others. I enjoy rooting for those kind of kids. I have a personal interest in those kind of kids because I have two in my family. Being a true student athlete is not as easy as some may think. Balancing travel, practice and study time is not a piece of cake. Now if the administration and fan base want to roll the dice with a new hire so be it. As I mentioned earlier if they want my continual support they better get it right. We missed the boat on conference affiliation and to this point our investment in our Football program has not produced to the level of the dollars we invested. You and others want to hold Mick accountable I'm down with that but he isn't the only person who I have standards set for. He was 11 minutes away from kicking the door down. The administration is a lot farther away from putting this program in a position all the fans seem to want. He also did a bunch of heavy lifting in the fund raising department for the renovations all while playing second fiddle to a football program that has little or know fan interest.

all very good points.

I'm with jake though, give him the remainder of his contract to prove he can get over the hump. Is that not fair to you?

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Cronin has produced 3 seasons of consistently being in the rankings over the course of his career here, I wouldn't call that a top 20 program.
I think what jake and many others fear is, we got to this point the last two seasons of being top 20, and now we are in jeopardy of losing that momentum.
Have Cronin and staff plateaued ?
All factors should point towards better recruits, but nothing has come to fruition this spring.
I hope they have one or two up their sleeves!
None of us want to revert back to athletes playing defense but cant score.

very legitimate concern. I think we will take a step back this year. I think we will still be a good team but not as talented as the last team. That is how it is in sports at programs that rely on developing four year players. We are consistent. We are not great. I struggle with coming to grips with my expectations in todays game and how it is played off the court. I don't know if Mick is failing us or the NCAA. The FBI isn't building cases for nothing. I think we can still be a good program but it is extremely difficult and getting tougher.