Butler

[cincrulz11]

We are still ranked 28th in average length of possession on offense. It's our defense that makes us appear slow ranking 344th in average possession length.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

We are still ranked 28th in average length of possession on offense. It's our defense that makes us appear slow ranking 344th in average possession length.

That's a crazy split.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

We are still ranked 28th in average length of possession on offense. It's our defense that makes us appear slow ranking 344th in average possession length.

Weren't we 9th before the weekend? I think what people referring to is the slow walking it up the floor. Not sure why that is still Troy's default setting. We're getting decent looks in the halfcourt though, so it isn't the end of the world. But a lot of the offseason we talked about finding those extra few buckets per game to get us over 70 consistently. When we play all halfcourt, we have to be pretty flawless to hit that mark.

Anyone know what our TO rate was this weekend? 23 total TO doesn't seem like a ton but I'd imagine there were significantly less possessions in those 2 games.

 

[cincrulz11]

Weren't we 9th before the weekend?

We've been as high as 5th, but that was with no close games. It makes sense in the close ones we are really going to slow it up the last 5 minutes on our own when we have the lead. I felt there were multiple times we tried to rebound quickly and get it up the court, but teams are making sure 3-4 guys get back on D so we don't get transition points.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

We've been as high as 5th, but that was with no close games. It makes sense in the close ones we are really going to slow it up the last 5 minutes on our own when we have the lead. I felt there were multiple times we tried to rebound quickly and get it up the court, but teams are making sure 3-4 guys get back on D so we don't get transition points.

Makes sense. And yeah, it was clear what Nebraska's plan was to try to keep us contained. The good news is we were +17 rebounding in those 2 games as a result. So if we don't get out in transition, we're at least cleaning up on the boards.

 

[UCalum08]

Im really hoping to see a return to good shooting from the field. Like we did in the first 3 games.

Or at least try to be a shooting fast paced team in the first 10 minutes and see where it gets us. If not, then we can go to a patented Bearcat grind it out win (though my stomach may develop an ulcer after last weekend) and get the W that way.

But I hope we start trying to run, playing high Pressure D and just trying to exhuast Butler early. If it doesn't work then fine. But I want to see them try

It all starts with good passing and having am inside presence. That will open up our shooters. If we continue to struggle to score in the paint, we will struggle.

We also need to get our deflections up and get transition buckets. Both games in Brooklyn we had minimal deflections and a weak transition game.

 

[L-T]

It all starts with good passing and having am inside presence. That will open up our shooters. If we continue to struggle to score in the paint, we will struggle.

We also need to get our deflections up and get transition buckets. Both games in Brooklyn we had minimal deflections and a weak transition game.

First of all, we have a long history of not being a very good passing team. Mick says this team is one of his best passing teams. I think you can credit the addition of two players with having had a major impact on the passing.....Jenifer and Evans. Additionally, Quadri has had an increased role thus far (versus last year), and Mick has also commented that he is one of the best passers on the team. Evans minutes have been 22, 22, 21, 23, 21, 19, 15. Jenifer's minutes have been 13, 16, 19, 19, 7, 11, 7. Quadri's minutes have been 9, 14, 13, 14, 6, 4, 8. As you can see, our best passers have had their minutes reduced significantly over the last 3 games, all of which we have eerily reverted back to resemble our past teams once again. When you take the good ball movement guys out of the lineup, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand why this phenomena has occurred. Once that happened, we were left with Troy with the ball in his hands and having to make something happen, which thankfully he did this time. He hit some threes, and he drove and hit some key buckets as well, but as I pointed out this weekend, he only had three assists in two games. I also think Shaq does a decent job of finding his teammates at times and his minutes were way down as well.

 

[TheLongHaul]

Evans got some key minutes in the GW game, and while I'm a big fan of his, his passing and decision making was pretty poor. Your argument doesn't really make sense, especially considering the offense was good with those 3 out of the game prior to this tournament. And Shaq may be the worst passer on the team. His court vision is terrible.

 

[coachpipe]

First of all, we have a long history of not being a very good passing team. Mick says this team is one of his best passing teams. I think you can credit the addition of two players with having had a major impact on the passing.....Jenifer and Evans. Additionally, Quadri has had an increased role thus far (versus last year), and Mick has also commented that he is one of the best passers on the team. Evans minutes have been 22, 22, 21, 23, 21, 19, 15. Jenifer's minutes have been 13, 16, 19, 19, 7, 11, 7. Quadri's minutes have been 9, 14, 13, 14, 6, 4, 8. As you can see, our best passers have had their minutes reduced significantly over the last 3 games, all of which we have eerily reverted back to resemble our past teams once again. When you take the good ball movement guys out of the lineup, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand why this phenomena has occurred. Once that happened, we were left with Troy with the ball in his hands and having to make something happen, which thankfully he did this time. He hit some threes, and he drove and hit some key buckets as well, but as I pointed out this weekend, he only had three assists in two games. I also think Shaq does a decent job of finding his teammates at times and his minutes were way down as well.

I agree with what you have said, but I would also like to add we missed a lot of open shots. I understand you arent going to shoot 100%, but you have to hit your open shots. Troy could have probably added 3-4 more assists in both of the last 2 games if KJ and Cobb would have made their wide open jumpers

 

[cincrulz11]

Evans got some key minutes in the GW game, and while I'm a big fan of his, his passing and decision making was pretty poor. Your argument doesn't really make sense, especially considering the offense was good with those 3 out of the game prior to this tournament. And Shaq may be the worst passer on the team. His court vision is terrible.

Evans had a bad game. You could tell he started to doubt himself when he had the ball and you can't play like that. The good news is that was really the first time he played that way and everybody will struggle from time to time.


Still loved his recovery block after that bad turnover. At least he didn't stop and hang his head.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Evans had a bad game. You could tell he started to doubt himself when he had the ball and you can't play like that. The good news is that was really the first time he played that way and everybody will struggle from time to time.


Still loved his recovery block after that bad turnover. At least he didn't stop and hang his head.

Yes Evans missed a 3 and got it right back but passed up the 2nd shot. Hopefully it is a good teaching moment about taking the shots that are there no questions asked. You might shoot 4 possessions in a row, then not again that half. That's just the way is goes sometimes. You can't be thinking about that. I feel like he passed up that shot in the name of not wanting to shoot too much.

That chase down block was great. Shows how competitive he is.

 

[L-T]

Evans got some key minutes in the GW game, and while I'm a big fan of his, his passing and decision making was pretty poor. Your argument doesn't really make sense, especially considering the offense was good with those 3 out of the game prior to this tournament. And Shaq may be the worst passer on the team. His court vision is terrible.

Evans got his lowest minutes of the season (15), and his passing was terrible in that game, but his passing has been very good most of the season. Shaq never walks the ball up the court and his game is faster than most. This is a discussion of why our pace slowed way down to resemble past teams. If Shaq is on the bench, that will contribute to the pace slowing down. Plus, Shaq is 4th on the team in assists, which is best outside of the three guards. He has 11 assists and 7 turnovers, not to shabby. Also, most of his turnovers don't come from his passes. Most come from him trying to drive and being out of control. You're wrong, if you look at the minutes prior to the SE Louisiana game, those three played significantly more minutes, and the ball movement was significantly better.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

First of all, we have a long history of not being a very good passing team. Mick says this team is one of his best passing teams. I think you can credit the addition of two players with having had a major impact on the passing.....Jenifer and Evans. Additionally, Quadri has had an increased role thus far (versus last year), and Mick has also commented that he is one of the best passers on the team. Evans minutes have been 22, 22, 21, 23, 21, 19, 15. Jenifer's minutes have been 13, 16, 19, 19, 7, 11, 7. Quadri's minutes have been 9, 14, 13, 14, 6, 4, 8. As you can see, our best passers have had their minutes reduced significantly over the last 3 games, all of which we have eerily reverted back to resemble our past teams once again. When you take the good ball movement guys out of the lineup, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand why this phenomena has occurred. Once that happened, we were left with Troy with the ball in his hands and having to make something happen, which thankfully he did this time. He hit some threes, and he drove and hit some key buckets as well, but as I pointed out this weekend, he only had three assists in two games. I also think Shaq does a decent job of finding his teammates at times and his minutes were way down as well.

I'm not overly worried about the 3 assists for Caupain a couple reasons. First, our goal is to play inside-out. So our wing players need to be better post passers. And out post players need to be better at passing out of double teams to spot up shooters. That issue isn't really in Caupain's control. Second, he shot 25 times in those 2 games. We've all wanted him to be a more aggressive scorer. So if that's what he's looking to do, naturally his assist numbers won't be quite as high. Still could be better than 1.5 per game though.

If we're going to be an inside-out, ball movement, spacing type offense in the halcourt, the assists can really come from anywhere. The Spurs play a beautiful game, and Parker averages around 5 assists. It's the other guys on the floor...so I understand why you want those guys to get a chance for more minutes...especially Evans imo. Shaq doesn't typically pass all that well, and he's been lost on defense a few times. Quadri has gotten lost too. So you know Mick won't stand for those lapses, no matter how offensive-minded we become. Jenifer hasn't been as effective in the halfcourt, but I don't put that on him. I thought the whole idea of signing him, and having him as backup PG was to speed things up. I don't feel like he's had that opportunity lately.

 

[cincrulz11]

the ball movement was significantly better.

It was better because the teams were awful and didn't play any defense. The ball movement was good during the entire game, not just when certain players were out there.

 

[L-T]

I might add, to me, Quadri has been one of the players to truly embrace this concept of getting out and pushing the pace. He has been the recipient of a number of transition layups because he was busting it down the court. When you have a great passer, there's nothing better than someone who is hustling to create the opportunity for the ball handler to find him. He has his warts, but I've liked a lot of things he's done as well. He turned the ball over against GW, but then he made a huge block out of nowhere on an uncontested layup and shortly after that was hustling down the floor in transition and someone found him for a layup. He is progressing and contributing.

To sum this discussion up, if we reduce the minutes of the people who can pass and create and get out in transition, we'll be left with the players who have given us the snails pace, and the "pass the ball around the 3-pt. arc" mentality that we've seen for years. As you see, we're slowly starting to evolve back to that mentality over the last 3 games and I suspect that is probably where we will end up when all is said and done. I hope I am wrong.

 

[L-T]

I'm not overly worried about the 3 assists for Caupain a couple reasons. First, our goal is to play inside-out. So our wing players need to be better post passers. And out post players need to be better at passing out of double teams to spot up shooters. That issue isn't really in Caupain's control. Second, he shot 25 times in those 2 games. We've all wanted him to be a more aggressive scorer. So if that's what he's looking to do, naturally his assist numbers won't be quite as high. Still could be better than 1.5 per game though.

If we're going to be an inside-out, ball movement, spacing type offense in the halcourt, the assists can really come from anywhere. The Spurs play a beautiful game, and Parker averages around 5 assists. It's the other guys on the floor...so I understand why you want those guys to get a chance for more minutes...especially Evans imo. Shaq doesn't typically pass all that well, and he's been lost on defense a few times. Quadri has gotten lost too. So you know Mick won't stand for those lapses, no matter how offensive-minded we become. Jenifer hasn't been as effective in the halfcourt, but I don't put that on him. I thought the whole idea of signing him, and having him as backup PG was to speed things up. I don't feel like he's had that opportunity lately.

Jacob, you watched the same game that I did. There were a lot of wide open 3s on GWs part, so there were many getting lost on defense, and based on who played all the minutes, you have to mostly blame them, not the few who got almost no time on the floor. Our inside guys were brilliant defensively. Everyone else, not so good.

 

[L-T]

It was better because the teams were awful and didn't play any defense. The ball movement was good during the entire game, not just when certain players were out there.

SE Louisiana gives up 79 pts per game. GW 70 pts.per game. Nebraska 63 pts. per game. None of these teams were great defensively. Keep in mind, they've all been playing the little sisters of the poor like we have, so those defensive averages came against mostly weak competition. SE Louisiana gave up 69 against Mississippi College before holding us to 64.

 

[cincrulz11]

SE Louisiana gives up 79 pts per game. GW 70 pts.per game. Nebraska 63 pts. per game. None of these teams were great defensively. Keep in mind, they've all been playing the little sisters of the poor like we have, so those defensive averages came against mostly weak competition. SE Louisiana gave up 69 against Mississippi College before holding us to 64.

Holding us to 64 is right. They held the ball the entire game just across mid court. They had 77 possessions in the game with Mississippi College. They had 58 vs us. With 77 possessions we would have scored 85 points on them.

 

[Chad Brendel]

Jacob, you watched the same game that I did. There were a lot of wide open 3s on GWs part, so there were many getting lost on defense, and based on who played all the minutes, you have to mostly blame them, not the few who got almost no time on the floor. Our inside guys were brilliant defensively. Everyone else, not so good.

Had pretty much nothing to do with "guys getting lost". Since you have such a vast knowledge of the game, I'll let you diagnose what was the actual problem...

 

[waterhead]

First of all, we have a long history of not being a very good passing team. Mick says this team is one of his best passing teams. I think you can credit the addition of two players with having had a major impact on the passing.....Jenifer and Evans. Additionally, Quadri has had an increased role thus far (versus last year), and Mick has also commented that he is one of the best passers on the team. Evans minutes have been 22, 22, 21, 23, 21, 19, 15. Jenifer's minutes have been 13, 16, 19, 19, 7, 11, 7. Quadri's minutes have been 9, 14, 13, 14, 6, 4, 8. As you can see, our best passers have had their minutes reduced significantly over the last 3 games, all of which we have eerily reverted back to resemble our past teams once again. When you take the good ball movement guys out of the lineup, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand why this phenomena has occurred. Once that happened, we were left with Troy with the ball in his hands and having to make something happen, which thankfully he did this time. He hit some threes, and he drove and hit some key buckets as well, but as I pointed out this weekend, he only had three assists in two games. I also think Shaq does a decent job of finding his teammates at times and his minutes were way down as well.

While it could be a small part of the explanation I think the largest part is due to the last couple of teams racing 3 and 4 defenders back to make sure we didn't get out and run. You take advantage of numbers IE 3 on 2...but if you are the outlet and you are pushing and see 4 defenders on two teammates you pull it up and run the old offense. If they are set defensively there is no point in doing the hurry up offense. The whole point of the hurry up would be to take advantage of numbers or to catch them before they set up their defense.