Eastern Illinois
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jacobkdoyle
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WAITE HOYT 2
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It is not one or the other. Coach plays the guys the minutes he thinks give him the best chance to win. How and when he plays them is determined by the flow of the game and how they perform.UC has been good enough offensively to make the dance 3 years running. How many teams can say that?
The thing I'm most confident in is Mick will find away to get the most out of his team. People who say he should play this guy or not be so quick to pull a guy are comical. He sees this team everyday. He knows their skills and mental capabilities better then anyone. Is he a100 percent correct in his game management every game? Very few are. But he is certainly more knowledgeable then anyone sitting in the stands who are buying tickets.
I have know problem discussing game strategy on here with anyone. The thing that gets me is there are those who are pompous enough to believe they are better equipped to Coach the team and run the program then him. Again there may be better coaches out there but none are posting here. The job he has done has been tremendous. He has put a winner on the floor and a tough scrappy team year in and year out that represents the university very well. I would like to see more wins in the Dance,multiple 5 star recruits,better facilities and a better conference. He is a work in progress that I think will deliver the goods.I would suggest that if your not happy with the job he has done find a new team. Mick and his coaching style will be here awhile.
Robert
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Speaking personally, I realize Mick has forgotten more about basketball than I will ever know. I am under no delusions that I could coach the team better, nor do I want him fired.
That said, our lack of offense is a disturbing trend. I went back through every year Mick has coached here, and we have never finished higher than 160th in points per game. We have also never averaged more than 69.0 ppg. Occasionally low-scoring teams are successful -- Florida last year would be a great example. However, they ran into Connecticut in the Final Four and had the same problem we had against them -- they couldn't score.
Other defensive-minded teams like Louisville and Ohio State find ways to score points. Sure, some years you are going to have teams that are not as offensively talented, and you find other ways to win. But at least every 3-4 years, we should have enough talent to score over 70 ppg or be ranked within the top 100. Every other successful, defensive-minded team finds a way to do it. Yet we have never even been inside the top 150.
What is the answer? I really don't know. Maybe we aren't recruiting enough talent. Maybe Mick hasn't found the right scheme. Maybe guys are thinking too much instead of playing. But Cronin always says he isn't concerned about the offense. I just think 9 years of bad offense IS something to be concerned about.
That said, our lack of offense is a disturbing trend. I went back through every year Mick has coached here, and we have never finished higher than 160th in points per game. We have also never averaged more than 69.0 ppg. Occasionally low-scoring teams are successful -- Florida last year would be a great example. However, they ran into Connecticut in the Final Four and had the same problem we had against them -- they couldn't score.
Other defensive-minded teams like Louisville and Ohio State find ways to score points. Sure, some years you are going to have teams that are not as offensively talented, and you find other ways to win. But at least every 3-4 years, we should have enough talent to score over 70 ppg or be ranked within the top 100. Every other successful, defensive-minded team finds a way to do it. Yet we have never even been inside the top 150.
What is the answer? I really don't know. Maybe we aren't recruiting enough talent. Maybe Mick hasn't found the right scheme. Maybe guys are thinking too much instead of playing. But Cronin always says he isn't concerned about the offense. I just think 9 years of bad offense IS something to be concerned about.
Can we stop confusing good offense with total points per game rankings.
The offense is terrible this year and has not been good enough to win a title in his tenure. But our ppg rankings will always be awful because we play at a stupidly slow tempo.
The offense is terrible this year and has not been good enough to win a title in his tenure. But our ppg rankings will always be awful because we play at a stupidly slow tempo.
WAITE HOYT 2
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Guys no one is saying the offense doesn't need work. The defense does as well. Fact is we are a inexperienced team with many new parts,players playing bigger or different roles in a new offense. We are 3-0. not 0-3. Based on what Mick has delivered to this point I have no reason to think he won't get it figured out. Yes, that includes playing hard nosed defense and grind it out offense.
BearcatSpaniard513
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This team will be good and will figure things out. Last game was hopefully the worst of it, but I agree everyone needs to relax. I'll take our ugly 3-0. Statistically we're not looking good, but we are still undefeated. I'm excited to see how they bounce back from their 19 turnover game Sunday. Mick will put a lineup out there that is working and play minutes based on how hot/cold guys are. We have all the right pieces, now they just need to figure out how to succeed together. I expect to see better passing, rebounding and solid defense tonight. I'm guessing we win by 15
#BearcatNation
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This is a huge factor why our PPG is always so low. Yeah, we have often played inefficient as well, but we play very, very slow, which also allows our defense to look a lot better than it really is. The opponent doesn't get nearly as many changes to score as they do against other "run and gun" teams. I also agree with whoever in the other thread said our 2011 and 2012 recruiting classes have been busts. The 2011 guys have all way underperformed and I don't remember getting anybody in 2012. The young guys looking like the better players is good and bad.
BearcatSpaniard513
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I believe Titus Rubles was the lone '12 guy. The 2011 class might be the worst performing class of Mick's time here. Shaq still has this year and next to prove himself and Octavius Ellis was technically a 2011 signee
I agree, the adjusted tempo stats gives a better a look at the actual production that ppg can't. Plus it makes it easier to compare team.
I don't mind a slow tempo style if it implies off the ball movement and making the extra pass. This current (and it's still very early) iteration of the offense has too much standing around. Hopefully that's symptomatic of a young team that's learning and not a predictor of things to come.
This is year 9. He has firmly established what he knows about coaching offense. It's not going to get better until he starts recruiting better, or he starts thinking outside his own personal box. He's basically put nobody in the NBA. Attendance has been abysmal for 9 years and declined last year even though we were in the Top 10 a lot of the year. He has failed to rally our fanbase by either producing an exciting product to watch, or through great recruiting classes, or through any long NCAA run. What was once a huge complaint of the fanbase, that we continually lose in the 2nd round of the tourney, has now deteriorated to 1st round losses.
Without fans, the program will continue to struggle. Without the revenue to compete, we will continue to be behind the 8-ball. If we've sunk to a mid-major attitude where we're happy just getting our name called on selection Sunday, and taking baby steps to some long term journey back to respectability, well then continue on the present course. Let's continue to set the bar and expectations so low, that Mick cannot possibly fail. That's where we are today. His performance as a coach has been pretty good. The question is....is pretty good, good enough?
Without fans, the program will continue to struggle. Without the revenue to compete, we will continue to be behind the 8-ball. If we've sunk to a mid-major attitude where we're happy just getting our name called on selection Sunday, and taking baby steps to some long term journey back to respectability, well then continue on the present course. Let's continue to set the bar and expectations so low, that Mick cannot possibly fail. That's where we are today. His performance as a coach has been pretty good. The question is....is pretty good, good enough?
Wow! Everyone just needs to relax a little. We are three games in with a very inexperienced bunch. Our guys with more than 1 year playing Bearcat ball are not world beaters. Initially I was chalking this up to be a "rebuilding year".
Yes we have struggled offensively but just consider. We aren't going to shoot 15% from 3 all season. If we make even a respectable % that's another 5 points per game without changing the offense. The last game we had about 10 more turnovers than we should. If we typically make 40% of our shots that's another 8-10 points without changing the offense.
Our players will start to get comfortable. We will learn how to make an entry pass. We will settle into our roles. It will take a while. We will lose some games first unfortunately.
Let's talk about this later on around mid season. Clearly we have players with different skill sets than we have in the past. Let's see if they can get their legs under them first...geeesh!
Yes we have struggled offensively but just consider. We aren't going to shoot 15% from 3 all season. If we make even a respectable % that's another 5 points per game without changing the offense. The last game we had about 10 more turnovers than we should. If we typically make 40% of our shots that's another 8-10 points without changing the offense.
Our players will start to get comfortable. We will learn how to make an entry pass. We will settle into our roles. It will take a while. We will lose some games first unfortunately.
Let's talk about this later on around mid season. Clearly we have players with different skill sets than we have in the past. Let's see if they can get their legs under them first...geeesh!
jacobkdoyle
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It doesn't matter what year Mick is in, he still has 7 new players this year. That can happen in college basketball sometimes. And it is sad that winning games is too boring for some fans. But Mick isn't going to completely change everything he does just to cater to fair-weather fans.
JasonS
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Nor should he. I don't care if we score 50 points per game or 75 points per game. Just win baby.
I do. 75 points is more exciting, higher tempo, better atmosphere. More enjoyable game than 20 bricks going up over and over, easier to convince small time fans to repeat visits, more exposure, need I go on?
JackBauer151
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This is what I always come back too. We have been a really hard basketball team to watch over Mick's tenure. We dont pass the ball particularly well. Our talent level has never been very great. We have had a lot of underrated recruiting classes. Our program hasnt had the support that it has had in the past both from the fans and the financial backers. All of that can be maddening at times. However we still have won a lot of games. We have been ranked in the top 10 the last two years, won our conference, went a sweet 16 and so on. It's not pretty but when the buzzer sounds I have been much more happy than not over the last 5 years. Xavier is the complete opposite of UC. Their offense is really pretty and they cant guard a chair. That philosophy has earned them back to back years of not making the round of 64. So many things can and should be improved but while we wait just keep winning baby!!!
"Just win baby" applies to the postseason as well. We need an impassioned and fanatical fan base. Until the fanbase believes we have a legitimate annual shot to make significant impact in the NCAA tournament, they'll stay away. This program must return to the day when we overspend to get our tickets, when the demand for tickets is greater than the supply. Today we advertize $99 dollar ticket plans that waive the handling fees. We've put most of our focus as a university on the football program recently and let basketball fall to the background. It won't be much longer till the focus shifts back to basketball and we'll see how things shake out then.
The head coach needs to continue to make the tournament, start making some runs in March, and start putting butts in the seats at 5/3. If he can accomplish that without playing offense, more power to him.
WAITE HOYT 2
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If I was Mick I would be boot scottin down the road to a program where winning was all that matter not style points.
Oh, and people if you think he wouldn't have options think again. The flip side being good luck bringing someone better with our facility,conference affiliation and our budget. I'm sure established Coaches would be lining up to replace a Coach who's fan base ran a guy out because his teams while successful didn't play an exciting enough style.
If that is why people aren't turning out they deserve what they get.
Oh, and people if you think he wouldn't have options think again. The flip side being good luck bringing someone better with our facility,conference affiliation and our budget. I'm sure established Coaches would be lining up to replace a Coach who's fan base ran a guy out because his teams while successful didn't play an exciting enough style.
If that is why people aren't turning out they deserve what they get.
This whole line of talk has come after 3 games? L-T, you have your right to your beliefs and I have supported your right to say it on many occasions, but listening to you is really getting old. You follow the straight and narrow until a couple of cracks in the armor happen and then the same arguments and complaints come back out again. I understand you want the program to be at the top but I also understand that you never will give Mick his due, you just don't like him and that is okay. But everyone knows your feelings now so please just give it a rest. If in March they are still playing this way you will have a lot more legs to stand on, but at that point I will be arguing that he didn't do a good enough job of bringing THIS team along, not that he hasn't been a success. Unfortunately knowing your pattern, even if they improve all year you will point out how other teams or other coaches would have done it better. I'm sorry I feel this way but you take all the fun out of what should be fun.
WAITE HOYT 2
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Thank you!!!!!