justinhub2003
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2015
- Messages
- 5,583
No worse nickname then Cumby
Future teams
- Thread starter WAITE HOYT 2
- Start date
Help Support BearcatTalk:
No worse nickname then Cumby
Technically we heard it first from CorryvilleCarl a week or two ago. You need to up your game.
Last edited:
Something we can finally agree on. I for one feel like it should be a bannable offense.
Really struggling to find the style and identity Brannen will eventually settle in to use. It sounds like he would prefer the 4 out 1 in style. But I was hoping for more of a style that included 5 guys who can shoot rather than having a traditional 5. Maybe it's just that 2019 is going to be hard for him to recruit for that. I kind of like the idea of positionless basketball as it relates to the perimeter guys.
But we are seeing offers to guys like Vogt and Kalkbrenner and a PG in Saunders who is 6'0" and not a great shooter. Those are not positionless players. I just don't see the SMU type of plan developing here so far. I am not sure how I feel about the short PG who can't shoot or the tall lanky plodding 5 who can't shoot. We have watched guys like Evans and Cumberland take over mid to late clock scenarios as defacto PG. So maybe we don't need the traditional PG unless it's just for back up ball handling reasons, pushing pace, or if we can't get the ball over half court.
I do like guys like Davenport, Scrubb, T Williams, Madsen, Iorio, Bolton, Todd etc. I know we are not pursuing some of them anymore but just showing the type of player I would like to see. We do need a rim protector and I know finding the ultra athlete who can drain the 3 is going to be a tough get. So I think we can get by with 1 player at the 5 who is more traditional but I am not sure I want to see a traditional PG in addition to that...unless they can shoot the rock.
I want 4 guys who can handle the rock and shoot on the perimeter. Combo guards and forwards. That is what I thought we were getting with Brannen. Perhaps we have to wait until 2020 to see that style of recruiting develop.
TheLivingLegend
Well-known member
4 guys who can run jump dribble shoot... Arent lining up to come.
Great coaches can adjust their style to the talent they have... I think Mick truly struggled with this..
I think guys like cane and troy caupain could have thrived in a system that was adjusted to their strengths
Great coaches can adjust their style to the talent they have... I think Mick truly struggled with this..
I think guys like cane and troy caupain could have thrived in a system that was adjusted to their strengths
I am also not sure about this Charles Coleman guy. Yes he seems to be able to knock down a 3 (don't know his %) but he looks incredibly awkward and doesn't seem to possess much skill outside of being tall. Maybe I am missing something but Kalkbrenner and Vogt and Sorolla seem to be more coordinated in the paint...even if they aren't 3 pt shooters. The Coleman videos do not impress me much...although his high major interest tells a different story.
I would love to get the Loveday kid. That would be a perfect fit! I know that will also be very difficult. He has a nice stroke and he's what 6'10" or 6'11"? He moves very well and seems very coordinated.
I would love to get the Loveday kid. That would be a perfect fit! I know that will also be very difficult. He has a nice stroke and he's what 6'10" or 6'11"? He moves very well and seems very coordinated.
I am not so much concerned about the running and jumping part as I am with the dribbling and shooting part. I was led to believe Brannen would prefer the basketball skills a little bit more than the athleticism. I am okay with that.
I understand it would be hard to get multiple players who have both BB skills and athleticism. Every coach is looking for those players. IN the early years Mick tended to focus on the athlete. But guys like SK and Cumberland turned out very well for him. Not superior athletes...but superior BB players.
I think it's mostly based on potential. Coleman has a bigger body and more speed/athleticism. He doesn't have the ability in the paint, but he has all the physical tools to get there at some point in his career. Kalkbrenner and Vogt are more capable in the paint right now, but I'd bet in 2-3 years Coleman is going to be the better player.
You look at Logan, Vaughn, SK and Cumberland. 4 of the best players to ever put on a UC uniform. I can probably count their dunks on one hand (maybe 2). All top 10 scorers at UC and maybe all top 5 IDK. Assuming JC comes back.
Every one of those guys could shoot pretty well and handle the rock decently. I don't know that any of them were considered "excellent" ball handlers or shooters but they were all good enough. But they all knew how to play the game and use their body and had superior instincts. They were true BB players.
I agree, it seems like he is just recruiting guys and hoping to find a style once they are here. He's recruiting traditional plodding bigs who can't play offense from beyond 5 feet and than Coleman who is the complete opposite (athletic, but doesn't seem to have an offensive game inside 10 feet).
He's recruiting some wing athletes who aren't great shooters like Davenport and Williams but are athletic and can take the ball to the hoop. Than there's a guy like Iorio who is the same height, but plays as an undersized big who doesn't move well enough to play the 3 and is a liability on D, but can drain threes.
As you say, everyone at UC's level of recruiting is going to have a flaw. We can't get the elite athlete who can shoot. Cronin put athleticism first (especially for bigs), Brannen doesn't seem to be putting an emphasis on any one thing. But these guys are still just potential recruits, maybe a logic behind Brannen's choices will become more apparent when we see the guys who actually sign - or in 2020 when he has more time to find his type of guy (whatever that type is).
I am a bit worried by guys like Vogt and Ioria, who have to sit a year as transfers and don't really seem like they belong at high-level major schools. I'm okay with those types for 2019 and Vogt is an exception because of his history, but I expect better for 2020.
I did not see speed and athleticism in his video. I saw somewhat slow and gangly and awkward. But maybe the mix tape was not a good representation.
He does have a much higher caliber of offers and interest so I am definitely missing something unless it's just about height and 3 pt shooting.
Good post!
I watched another video of him that made him look so much better than the first one I saw. I will back off my comments about Coleman.
One more thing about Brannen is he seems more willing to recruit role players/career backups. I think Cronin truly believed that every player he recruited would become a starter if they worked hard and developed and he told them that. He would also give them the starting spot over a younger (sometimes better) guy if they had worked hard and done what they were told. It seems the few guys who ever transferred out were those who failed to develop (probably didn't put in the work). If Cronin didn't think a guy could become a starter he didn't recruit him.
Brannen seems much more willing to recruit career backups. I'd put Vogt, Sorolla and Ioria in this category. Low ceiling guys who don't seem to have the athletic potential to be more than role players at UC. On the one hand this might help with depth and having better situational player, but on the other hand it may lead to more guys transferring out (if they get frustrated with lack of minutes) or having fewer guys develop into stars (because we are recruiting guys who don't have the potential to become stars).
Brannen seems much more willing to recruit career backups. I'd put Vogt, Sorolla and Ioria in this category. Low ceiling guys who don't seem to have the athletic potential to be more than role players at UC. On the one hand this might help with depth and having better situational player, but on the other hand it may lead to more guys transferring out (if they get frustrated with lack of minutes) or having fewer guys develop into stars (because we are recruiting guys who don't have the potential to become stars).
I would agree here as well. It's much easier to fill the depth and back up roles first and then go after higher caliber players. Once you have the higher caliber players it's harder to land decent quality depth. Cronin would often go without a full roster sometimes 2 spots open. He did not want to recruit over and there wasn't much purpose in recruiting under (guys who would never find the floor).
I hope that Brannen will fill the roster with good quality but not be so opposed to landing better talent if he can get them. It may lead to turnover on the roster but if we can get better players for the long run...I think we need to try to do that. Addition by subtraction.
Cronin held onto most of his roster and players with very low turnover but sometimes I felt that was why we didn't get to the next level. I think it was loyal, honest and even admirable...but it did come at some expense. I think his players admired that about him...but if you are in it to win it...you have to shoot for the stars and make the players earn it on the floor IMO. AS has been said...this isn't T-ball where everyone gets a trophy. It's high level D1 basketball. Sometimes the best thing for under performing players is to get a shot at a different situation where they can excel. Players who might leave our program likely aren't NBA bound...they are likely bound to be someone who can play mid major level and even excel there. I look at that as a win win. Gelawn Guyn is a very good example.
cincyguy13
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2017
- Messages
- 4,633
There is no way Cronin thought all of these guys could become stars. 25% of them had zero basketball skills. There is no way he thought they could go from that to developing in to stars in 4 years
cincyguy13
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2017
- Messages
- 4,633
Agree. In college you can even be an effective PF at 6’4. Especially in this league. Nevada had a smaller PF the last couple years. Lot of different ways to be effective