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skyblade said:
If Moore is going to get virtually no minutes, why is he still here? Moore provides value as a veteran and as a solid defender who can guard positions 1-4. If his shot starts falling, his ability to stretch the floor would more than compensate for weaker ball handling. Brannen isn't going to forget about defense and good defenders are still going to be valuable in his system.

We don't really know how valuable ball handlers will be with Brannen. Under Brannen, NKU's teams have been ranked 143 (2019), 159 (2018), 189 (2017) and 220 (2016) in adjusted tempo. I'm a little skeptical that Brannen is going to have UC playing faster than he played at NKU.

Going off the players we have (since it's hard to get players who can do everything), there doesn't seem to be much of a focus on any one skill.
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Do you think Moore can guard a 4 or rebound better than Cumberland or Gillam? Not significantly if any. Can he push the break? Not better than anyone else who will be asked to.

He’s not a plus defender...maybe average. So his value is shooting and I hope he realizes his potential there.
 
skyblade said:
If Moore is going to get virtually no minutes, why is he still here? Moore provides value as a veteran and as a solid defender who can guard positions 1-4. If his shot starts falling, his ability to stretch the floor would more than compensate for weaker ball handling. Brannen isn't going to forget about defense and good defenders are still going to be valuable in his system.

We don't really know how valuable ball handlers will be with Brannen. Under Brannen, NKU's teams have been ranked 143 (2019), 159 (2018), 189 (2017) and 220 (2016) in adjusted tempo. I'm a little skeptical that Brannen is going to have UC playing faster than he played at NKU.

Going off the players we have (since it's hard to get players who can do everything), there doesn't seem to be much of a focus on any one skill.
Click to expand...

Also I saw a recent interview with a potential PF recruit and he said Brannen told him he wants his 4’s to push the break off the dribble if they can. If he wants his 4s to do that I guarantee he wants the guards/wings to. Every one of his last 4 recruits can do that. And that’s not counting McNeal. I think Davenport can do it as well. Obviously Sorolla can’t.
 
This notion of up and down up and down, back and forth high paced basketball is such a trend more than an evolution.. Basketball remains the same a team has to play good offense and good defense. The idea of High paced offense is really overrated.. the question is "winning" what's the best winning formula for both offense and defense but it's hard to define that with no definitive roles, the idea of everyone but the center pushing the ball up the court is actually kind of scary.. Hopefully Moore can knock down his shots this yr, this seems to be the highest value within this current system making shots. The idea sounds great but so much of the game has to be compensated for if a team is so focused on offense trying to move as fast as possible I've seen it so many times it can produce a lot of other bad habits and put a team in a position to where thier just chasing thier own tail, n shooting their own foot from time to time whether it concern a lack of rebounding or defensive lapses. Hopefully this is not the case
 
JoeRunner89 said:
This notion of up and down up and down, back and forth high paced basketball is such a trend more than an evolution.. Basketball remains the same a team has to play good offense and good defense. The idea of High paced offense is really overrated.. the question is "winning" what's the best winning formula for both offense and defense but it's hard to define that with no definitive roles, the idea of everyone but the center pushing the ball up the court is actually kind of scary.. Hopefully Moore can knock down his shots this yr, this seems to be the highest value within this current system making shots. The idea sounds great but so much of the game has to be compensated for if a team is so focused on offense trying to move as fast as possible I've seen it so many times it can produce a lot of other bad habits and put a team in a position to where thier just chasing thier own tail, n shooting their own foot from time to time whether it concern a lack of rebounding or defensive lapses. Hopefully this is not the case
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I understand some of your points but I don't think CJB pushes pace just to push pace. It's about hunting easier buckets before the D gets set. So the players have to know when they have an open shot or an advantage and they need to know when to set the offense up instead. In the half court I think we put up the first available good shot but I don't think that means we are running around hunting shots like chickens with our heads cut off. There will still be a system of accountability and the players who are best at recognizing good opportunities will be on the floor.

Brannen will not lose focus on D or rebounding either...he is a smart dude. One thing is for sure a system will be in place and the players will be expected to execute that system. Obviously we are in wait and see mode for how that will turn out.

Make the dance and play our best ball at the end of the year are my main expectations or hopes.
 
JoeRunner89 said:
This notion of up and down up and down, back and forth high paced basketball is such a trend more than an evolution.. Basketball remains the same a team has to play good offense and good defense. The idea of High paced offense is really overrated.. the question is "winning" what's the best winning formula for both offense and defense but it's hard to define that with no definitive roles, the idea of everyone but the center pushing the ball up the court is actually kind of scary.. Hopefully Moore can knock down his shots this yr, this seems to be the highest value within this current system making shots. The idea sounds great but so much of the game has to be compensated for if a team is so focused on offense trying to move as fast as possible I've seen it so many times it can produce a lot of other bad habits and put a team in a position to where thier just chasing thier own tail, n shooting their own foot from time to time whether it concern a lack of rebounding or defensive lapses. Hopefully this is not the case
Click to expand...
You ever watch North Carolina. They been playing up and down basketball since Coach Roy took over and have won more titles than any other team in that span.
 
waterhead said:
I understand some of your points but I don't think CJB pushes pace just to push pace. It's about hunting easier buckets before the D gets set. So the players have to know when they have an open shot or an advantage and they need to know when to set the offense up instead. In the half court I think we put up the first available good shot but I don't think that means we are running around hunting shots like chickens with our heads cut off. There will still be a system of accountability and the players who are best at recognizing good opportunities will be on the floor.

Brannen will not lose focus on D or rebounding either...he is a smart dude. One thing is for sure a system will be in place and the players will be expected to execute that system. Obviously we are in wait and see mode for how that will turn out.

Make the dance and play our best ball at the end of the year are my main expectations or hopes.
Click to expand...
Yea, I mean I know he's trying to push pace to win and, beat defensive sets it's just that style "Pro Style" takes pro style athlete's and in college those type of guys are hard to come by. It's kind of asking a lot of these young players to be responsible and heady enough to be running up and down the court at maximum effort and still maintain the same in regards to defense rebounding.. it's really give or take in those regards the fast pace system isn't really a system it's more open than anything to the player to use thier God gifted ability to essentially take matters into thier own hands and more times than not these young guys aren't ready for that responsibility. A good shot isn't good unless it goes in as well an open shot isn't gaurunteed to go in.. the more sure aspects are defense and rebounding, it speaks more towards character and toughness which is what this program has been hanging it's hat on for more than 2 decades. The two things require a coach on your ass as well which is something a lot of young guys will run away from. By the way Caupain is looking nice tonight in the summer league... But I digress yes I think the system can be affective it's just the consistency at this level that leaves me wondering
 
JoeRunner89 said:
Ncarolina gets blue Chip recruits year in and year out
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All your points are worth mentioning...but remember Brennen has been learning to implement this system at VCU, Alabama, and then NKU. And at NKU he won a good number of games with the talent he could pull there. So while higher talent makes the system work better, it seems he's been able to get his players to work it mostly to their advantage. You strategize a game plan for every game and go from there.

Let's just wait to see how good they're catching on to it, as I'd imagine it might take a chunk of the season to teach things starting off.
 
skyblade said:
If Moore is going to get virtually no minutes, why is he still here? Moore provides value as a veteran and as a solid defender who can guard positions 1-4. If his shot starts falling, his ability to stretch the floor would more than compensate for weaker ball handling. Brannen isn't going to forget about defense and good defenders are still going to be valuable in his system.

We don't really know how valuable ball handlers will be with Brannen. Under Brannen, NKU's teams have been ranked 143 (2019), 159 (2018), 189 (2017) and 220 (2016) in adjusted tempo. I'm a little skeptical that Brannen is going to have UC playing faster than he played at NKU.

Going off the players we have (since it's hard to get players who can do everything), there doesn't seem to be much of a focus on any one skill.
Click to expand...

hasnt been recruited over...Yet
 
JoeRunner89 said:
Yea, I mean I know he's trying to push pace to win and, beat defensive sets it's just that style "Pro Style" takes pro style athlete's and in college those type of guys are hard to come by. It's kind of asking a lot of these young players to be responsible and heady enough to be running up and down the court at maximum effort and still maintain the same in regards to defense rebounding.. it's really give or take in those regards the fast pace system isn't really a system it's more open than anything to the player to use thier God gifted ability to essentially take matters into thier own hands and more times than not these young guys aren't ready for that responsibility. A good shot isn't good unless it goes in as well an open shot isn't gaurunteed to go in.. the more sure aspects are defense and rebounding, it speaks more towards character and toughness which is what this program has been hanging it's hat on for more than 2 decades. The two things require a coach on your ass as well which is something a lot of young guys will run away from. By the way Caupain is looking nice tonight in the summer league... But I digress yes I think the system can be affective it's just the consistency at this level that leaves me wondering
Click to expand...

Cronin showed great results with micro managing as much of the action he could...but when the green light came on I think the players weren't able to trust that it was real. I remember Caupain having issues with it. Sometimes he would hear Cronin saying go go go...but most of the time Cronin wanted to slow it down (and call his play) so I am sure it was confusing. Players used to pass up good shots all the time as well...probably because they thought Cronin wanted the ball to go through a progression before a shot was taken. But then in a presser we would hear Cronin talk about passing up open shots at times. He created that confusion.

When the players know they are supposed to push the ball every time (and take open shots) it takes the confusion away. If a player gets tired they will have to come out. And the worst players (for the system) will be last off the bench (and we have 12 of them to use this year). I think defense will become simpler as well. What we might lose in the overall scheme we might make up for in less players getting lost on switches etc...who knows.

It's a catch 22 I guess...there is no perfect recipe. In March you have to hope the players can take over the game with instinct. Cronin use to say the players win games in March...but he was probably too often getting in the way.
 
itsamemario said:
hasnt been recruited over...Yet
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I am certainly not rooting for players getting recruited over to become a theme for CJB. But I do think there are a couple of Cronin recruits who could still be in a precarious position. Cumberland, Scott and Williams fit pretty well and probably Diara. That would leave Moore and Gillam.

Bannen has a lot of recruiting to do for next year so recruiting over a current player will mean he probably landed a pretty stellar class all things considered.

The more I think about the Hardnett situation the more I think the "sit down talk" about how each player fits in is the right way to go. Moore will have to make his shots this year. If not...he will be on the end of the bench and he should be offered help by the coach in finding a better situation rather than sitting at the end of a bench all year. If the player says I am OK with riding pine all year...then I guess you have to give him the option to do that. I don't foresee a player wanting to do that...and I think it's fair to let each player know where they stand in the pecking order.
 
Curious as to why so many posters on the board discount Prince as a factor. Does anyone have any inside info that would fuel such beliefs? I have no connections or info at all, so I kind of depend on stuff that I read.

He certainly looks like he has progressed in the fitness & strength program, but does anyone really know about his skill set? I would love to see some informed comments, or even any scuttlebutt from comments by other players, folks around the program etc.
 
juckerrules said:
Curious as to why so many posters on the board discount Prince as a factor. Does anyone have any inside info that would fuel such beliefs? I have no connections or info at all, so I kind of depend on stuff that I read.

He certainly looks like he has progressed in the fitness & strength program, but does anyone really know about his skill set? I would love to see some informed comments, or even any scuttlebutt from comments by other players, folks around the program etc.
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We haven't had a redshirt freshman become a significant contributor in his first season of play since Kilpatrick. Take a look:

Mo Diarra (18/19): 7 mpg, end of the bench player

Tre Scott (16/17): 10.5 mpg, arguably our first big off the bench that year but didn't become a real contributor until 18/19

Deshaun Morman (14/15): 10 mpg, okay rotation player that year but ended up transferring to a low major school (Towson) where he finished his career as an average player.

Shaq Thomas (12/13): 10.8 mpg, similar role to Morman as a frosh. Had a disappointing career considering he was a legit 4-star prospect out of HS.

Kelvin Gaines: (11/12): 8.5 mpg, had an Nsoseme-like impact on the court. Transferred after soph. year and never played D1 again.


Not to say that Prince can't an exception because the opportunity will be there playing on a team with only 3 true frontcourt players, but as a late bloomer and someone who will likely be undersized at his position, I expect the adjustment period to playing high major basketball be at least a full season.
 
Personally I think a lot of the "play fast" stuff is wishful thinking by the fans. Fans who were tired of Cronin now just want the complete opposite, regardless of if it works. Teams that play fast don't tend to do any better and Brannen has averaged around 150 in pace, so not exactly running all the time.

I doubt the defense will get simpler. Cronin tried to coach just one defense and perfect it. Brannen probably won't have as complicated of a defense, but he will also play more defenses and players will have to learn the subtleties of each defense. Brannen has talked a lot about working on defense during the summer practices.

Offensively, I expect us to push when it's available and take the first open shot. But not to be constantly pushing. As JoeRunner said, few teams have the players to play a pro style where every player (or at least the 1-4) can push the ball. Also I expect to get on players about shot selection and even pull them, NKU had a very good Efg%, doing that requires the right players taking the right shots. If someone who shouldn't be shooting takes a long jumper or a bad three, I expect Brannen to get on them just as much as Cronin would have.

I guess we will see. All we've heard from Brannen is talk so far. Cronin used to talk about pressing and running every year and put more focus than Brannen has on recruiting for that system. And yet come conference play, we almost never pressed. It seems like most pressing teams are long/tall athletes. But Brannen recruited quick guards and big, plodding centers, so it's hard to see us pressing a lot.

I anticipate us playing mostly half-court defense, but focusing more on getting the ball down court quickly on offense. Test the defense, if it's there take the shot, if not pull it out and run the offense. As I've said before, my biggest concern is our rebounding, you can't run if you can't get the rebound.
 
Jeremiah Davenport got injured, not sure how, but I saw trev Moore’s and Chris vogts ig posts said speedy recovery to him...
 
Helicopter said:
That sucks. Might be a blessing in disguise for him if he redshirts, though. Would maximize his minutes at the college level.
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I think his opportunity is really going to boil down to what Gillam can do. If Gillam displays enough ball skills or outside shot...then it's going to be tough for Davenport to find the floor. I would think it would be easier for Davenport to be on the floor as a small ball stretch 4 type of player (this year)...than it would for him to find time among the talented wing group. Next year could be a different story.
 

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