Future teams

[Bcatfollower]

I'd say roughly 20-25...


Paying him 2.5 million would have made him the 40th highest paid coach.

So now with all the resources he has that uc didn’t provide him he should easily win a national championship..... or make the second weekend

 

[cincyalum2014]

Tell me why the recruiting fell off ?

What big change happened to UC?

Mick had 3 5 star players commit while he was in the big east.

Zero in the AAC.

Let’s see what Brannen can do. He already took an L on a grad transfer and an L on a P5 assistant.

He’s most likely not getting the best assistant from his nku staff


This is where a pragmatic idealist meets the harsh reality.

Who were the 3 5 star recruits? I know Lance and Jermaine Lawrence were, who was the third? Yancy Gates? (serious question). IMO I think Lance was wasted by Cronin along with the other highly rated guys Mick was able to get. I think it was a mix of Cronin not letting Lance play his game and Lance under performing a little. Jermaine Lawrence was a pretty big bust and Yancy never made a huge improvement from year to year but he never regressed either, he was overall a solid player. Either way Mick was able to turn lower recruited players like Gary and SK into top college basketball players. Also this is my personal opinion I don't think Cronins system is very enticing to many of the top college basketball players in the country, especially when you are not in a power 5 conference. He may be more attractive to top players now with the UCLA brand.

 

[waterhead]

Brooks is on a visit to Miami right now

I think he has one foot out the door. And that is why we need to replace him now. We can't wait for him to say "maybe I'll stick around". Find a transfer and put some pressure on him...or maybe we can work with Diara or Gillam etc.

I would rather find a PG or combo guard who can score a little bit right now. But we can't/shouldn't wait on Brooks.

If Curtis and Johnson are sticking around maybe we don't need to fill that many positions right now. But I think we need a PG if Cumberland leaves or if Johnson leaves and maybe even if they don't. I think many of us would like a shooter too...for Brannen's system to work best. Maybe Moore can finally get out of his own head but who knows.

 

[justinhub2003]

Who were the 3 5 star recruits? I know Lance and Jermaine Lawrence were, who was the third? Yancy Gates? (serious question). IMO I think Lance was wasted by Cronin along with the other highly rated guys Mick was able to get. I think it was a mix of Cronin not letting Lance play his game and Lance under performing a little. Jermaine Lawrence was a pretty big bust and Yancy never made a huge improvement from year to year but he never regressed either, he was overall a solid player. Either way Mick was able to turn lower recruited players like Gary and SK into top college basketball players. Also this is my personal opinion I don't think Cronins system is very enticing to many of the top college basketball players in the country, especially when you are not in a power 5 conference. He may be more attractive to top players now with the UCLA brand.

Yancy was a 5 star on Rivals

 

[justinhub2003]

Who were the 3 5 star recruits? I know Lance and Jermaine Lawrence were, who was the third? Yancy Gates? (serious question). IMO I think Lance was wasted by Cronin along with the other highly rated guys Mick was able to get. I think it was a mix of Cronin not letting Lance play his game and Lance under performing a little. Jermaine Lawrence was a pretty big bust and Yancy never made a huge improvement from year to year but he never regressed either, he was overall a solid player. Either way Mick was able to turn lower recruited players like Gary and SK into top college basketball players. Also this is my personal opinion I don't think Cronins system is very enticing to many of the top college basketball players in the country, especially when you are not in a power 5 conference. He may be more attractive to top players now with the UCLA brand.

Do you know what is enticing to recruits?


Living in LA, the most beautiful college girls on the planet and the California Weather.


UCLA recruits itself.


LOL they have top 100 kid who stayed committed after Alford was fired and after Mick was hired. He was coming to LA regardless of who was the coach.

 

[justinhub2003]

So now with all the resources he has that uc didn’t provide him he should easily win a national championship..... or make the second weekend

national Championship.. Probably not.


but 2nd weekend.. absolutely.


in my opinion, Mick's defense coupled with elite talent is a winning formula. he will get bucket getters at UCLA and he will make them work a whole hell of a lot harder than Alford did

 

[justinhub2003]

I think he has one foot out the door. And that is why we need to replace him now. We can't wait for him to say "maybe I'll stick around". Find a transfer and put some pressure on him...or maybe we can work with Diara or Gillam etc.

I would rather find a PG or combo guard who can score a little bit right now. But we can't/shouldn't wait on Brooks.

If Curtis and Johnson are sticking around maybe we don't need to fill that many positions right now. But I think we need a PG if Cumberland leaves or if Johnson leaves and maybe even if they don't. I think many of us would like a shooter too...for Brannen's system to work best. Maybe Moore can finally get out of his own head but who knows.

I don’t think we need to replace him now.

1. No one worthy of replacing him on the market
2. Diarra & nsesome can hold it down at the 5
3. Scott & prince can man the 4 with hardnett too

You have nothing but time to wait on him.

If he stays... your priority is a PG
If he leaves... your priority is a PG

No reason to tie up a scholarship on a shitty player

It’s all about the 2020 class.

For 2019 we just need a PG and then maybe a combo guard in case jarron decides to leave

 

[cincrulz11]

There were a lot of people on the boards who thought we could do better than Cronin but there were a lot who didn't see it that way and a lot more who felt like we maybe could and maybe couldn't.

yes there was a group of us that thought we might be able to get a better coach but also might not. i think there was a decent group of us that didn't necessarily want him fired, but weren't upset he chose to leave.


its probably best for both parties that he split after that nevada game. a large group of the remaining fans had started to grow apathetic towards the program. that game and season sorta revealed the true cap on our potential under mick. when the very best you can look forward to is winning a bad conference and an early tournament exit, with really no hope of a sweet 16, then it makes you start to lose interest. i think most realized the talent on team was likely the best we were ever going to put together under mick.



out with the playing scared to lose style. in with the aggressive and no fear style. hello forcing other teams to make plays, goodbye just hoping they don't.

 

[justinhub2003]

yes there was a group of us that thought we might be able to get a better coach but also might not. i think there was a decent group of us that didn't necessarily want him fired, but weren't upset he chose to leave.


its probably best for both parties that he split after that nevada game. a large group of the remaining fans had started to grow apathetic towards the program. that game and season sorta revealed the true cap on our potential under mick. when the very best you can look forward to is winning a bad conference and an early tournament exit, with really no hope of a sweet 16, then it makes you start to lose interest. i think most realized the talent on team was likely the best we were ever going to put together under mick.



out with the playing scared to lose style. in with the aggressive and no fear style. hello forcing other teams to make plays, goodbye just hoping they don't.

Clearly you aren't a season ticket holder then.


That place was lit every single home game last year. It was sold out nearly every night and if you want to upgrade seats to the lower level, most were going for 200 bucks in even the worst conference games.


Let's see if ticket sales are as good this year.

 

[cincrulz11]

Clearly you aren't a season ticket holder then.


That place was lit every single home game last year. It was sold out nearly every night and if you want to upgrade seats to the lower level, most were going for 200 bucks in even the worst conference games.


Let's see if ticket sales are as good this year.

first season in the upgraded arena. usually those go well for teams in terms of attendance.

 

[waterhead]

national Championship.. Probably not.


but 2nd weekend.. absolutely.


in my opinion, Mick's defense coupled with elite talent is a winning formula. he will get bucket getters at UCLA and he will make them work a whole hell of a lot harder than Alford did

That's the thing with Brannen. I think he's going to focus more on bucket getters than the bucket stoppers. We will find out soon enough which of those styles will be the better style in Cincinnati. I think Cronin will have the best of both worlds at UCLA but we will find out which is best for a team like UC who can't get the same talent level.

If Cronin could not get the bucket getters to come to UC and he can at UCLA then we were very likely CAPPED with him at UC. And if Brannen has troubles defending we may be in a similar situation...but I think a large portion of the fan base thinks we need more bucket getters in March to advance and I honestly don't know for sure...but we are at that point where we might start to find out.

Cronin's defensive system seemed to work well no matter how many bucket getters were on the court. Washington and Cumberland and Jenifer were not highly athletic...but we still managed to have our best defense because we had Clark and Evans. But we could score pretty well from everywhere. Cronin needed the bucket guys to put together his best team ever...and we didn't slack off on D because of it.

I expect Brannen to lean more on the offensive skills and BB IQ and perhaps his D will be just fine. Cronin's system on D leaned heavy on athletecism but maybe it could have been just fine so long as all the players knew where to be and when...even if they couldn't close out as fast or jump as high. Maybe you don't need that if you are in position to not have to do that.

 

[waterhead]

yes there was a group of us that thought we might be able to get a better coach but also might not. i think there was a decent group of us that didn't necessarily want him fired, but weren't upset he chose to leave.


its probably best for both parties that he split after that nevada game. a large group of the remaining fans had started to grow apathetic towards the program. that game and season sorta revealed the true cap on our potential under mick. when the very best you can look forward to is winning a bad conference and an early tournament exit, with really no hope of a sweet 16, then it makes you start to lose interest. i think most realized the talent on team was likely the best we were ever going to put together under mick.



out with the playing scared to lose style. in with the aggressive and no fear style. hello forcing other teams to make plays, goodbye just hoping they don't.

Yah I was in the crowd wondering if we could do better or worse. I would have been okay either way whether he stayed or went. I am nervous to find out but also excited that we are going to try.

For a fractured fan base and possibly donors and administration...it probably had to play out like this at some point.

I always enjoy the season but my excitement reaches a peak for March hopes. And I guess for a fan like myself...that can come at the expense of sustained success. I have never had anymore fun than the F4 season. I did have a lot of fun in the years following because I often felt we had a legit chance to make a F4 run as well.

Going into the tourney thinking you are capped at S16 at best is not a lot of fun for me. That Nevada game was a real kick in the stomach because it was really Cronin's only legit contender in 13 years in the dance. Just getting to the dance is only half of the fun for me...but that's just me. I know many other fans have a different view on that.

 

[waterhead]

Just looking at 2020 so far.

Zach Loveday is a good indicator of the difference in philosophy we are going to see whether we land him or not. Not hyper athletic but can shoot the 3 as a 6'11" big man. He seems plenty mobile though.

I don't know if Cronin would have recruited him or not...but Brannen is.

 

[justinhub2003]

That's the thing with Brannen. I think he's going to focus more on bucket getters than the bucket stoppers. We will find out soon enough which of those styles will be the better style in Cincinnati. I think Cronin will have the best of both worlds at UCLA but we will find out which is best for a team like UC who can't get the same talent level.

If Cronin could not get the bucket getters to come to UC and he can at UCLA then we were very likely CAPPED with him at UC. And if Brannen has troubles defending we may be in a similar situation...but I think a large portion of the fan base thinks we need more bucket getters in March to advance and I honestly don't know for sure...but we are at that point where we might start to find out.

Cronin's defensive system seemed to work well no matter how many bucket getters were on the court. Washington and Cumberland and Jenifer were not highly athletic...but we still managed to have our best defense because we had Clark and Evans. But we could score pretty well from everywhere. Cronin needed the bucket guys to put together his best team ever...and we didn't slack off on D because of it.

I expect Brannen to lean more on the offensive skills and BB IQ and perhaps his D will be just fine. Cronin's system on D leaned heavy on athletecism but maybe it could have been just fine so long as all the players knew where to be and when...even if they couldn't close out as fast or jump as high. Maybe you don't need that if you are in position to not have to do that.

Here's the thing though.


We've become so successful in the AAC under Mick Cronin that teams started to Mimic our toughness and intense focus on Defense.

The defense in our league is generally outstanding. And will continue to get better and better.
We created the winning formula for our league. Slow, steady, Defensive & efficient.


All that said, the team who won the Horizon league title last year wasn't NKU. It was the team who plays like UC. Wright ST had the best defense in the horizon. It also played the slowest pace. And thus they played NKU 3x and beat them 2 out of 3. They took home the league regular season title.


So will Brannen's offensive system work against a team like Houston is absolutely great at shutting down teams offenses? Will it work against an insane gritty and up & coming team like USF?

Will Brannen be out matched coaching wise by Greg Marshall & Tim Jankovich. Or will he just be out talented by memphis And Uconn.



Something we could always count on from Mick Cronin is that his defensive minded style of basketball kept us in every single game. I mean, under Cronin, we've won games where we shot less than 30%. Thats insanity.


I worry about teams who focus too much on offense in our league.



He is going to need to play tough defense in this league. The AAC IS NOT a finesse league.

 

[cincrulz11]

from an LA Times article on the UCLA coaching search



"Cronin was also near the top of UCLA’s list and harbored such strong interest in the job that he agreed to go on standby as the school pursued other coaches."




bohn totally forced him out of here though.

 

[waterhead]

Here's the thing though.


We've become so successful in the AAC under Mick Cronin that teams started to Mimic our toughness and intense focus on Defense.

The defense in our league is generally outstanding. And will continue to get better and better.
We created the winning formula for our league. Slow, steady, Defensive & efficient.


All that said, the team who won the Horizon league title last year wasn't NKU. It was the team who plays like UC. Wright ST had the best defense in the horizon. It also played the slowest pace. And thus they played NKU 3x and beat them 2 out of 3. They took home the league regular season title.


So will Brannen's offensive system work against a team like Houston is absolutely great at shutting down teams offenses? Will it work against an insane gritty and up & coming team like USF?

Will Brannen be out matched coaching wise by Greg Marshall & Tim Jankovich. Or will he just be out talented by memphis And Uconn.



Something we could always count on from Mick Cronin is that his defensive minded style of basketball kept us in every single game. I mean, under Cronin, we've won games where we shot less than 30%. Thats insanity.


I worry about teams who focus too much on offense in our league.



He is going to need to play tough defense in this league. The AAC IS NOT a finesse league.

Some good points. We will have to wait and see I guess but WSU was ranked 122 on D in Kenpom and NKU was 130 last year. Roughly the same.

We will have to play well on both sides of the ball. We will still have to rebound and not turn it over etc. We created a winning formula for the AAC but it didn't equate that well in the dance lately for any of the teams.

I'm not sure the AAC model is the one we need to focus on. Gotta keep adapting and changing to the environment of NCAA basketball. Brannen is big into the analytics of how to do that from what I understand. It's one of the main reasons he was hired. He laid out the plan to the brass and got hired.

It was a proposal on how to do better in the tourney and I think much of that had to do with things like tempo and shooting %.

 

[waterhead]

Some good points. We will have to wait and see I guess but WSU was ranked 122 on D in Kenpom and NKU was 130 last year. Roughly the same.

We will have to play well on both sides of the ball. We will still have to rebound and not turn it over etc. We created a winning formula for the AAC but it didn't equate that well in the dance lately for any of the teams.

I'm not sure the AAC model is the one we need to focus on. Gotta keep adapting and changing to the environment of NCAA basketball. Brannen is big into the analytics of how to do that from what I understand. It's one of the main reasons he was hired. He laid out the plan to the brass and got hired.

It was a proposal on how to do better in the tourney and I think much of that had to do with things like tempo and shooting %.

I think our offensive rebounding will take a hit this year because Brannen will want to take the first good shot we see. With an offensively challenged bunch I am not sure that is the wrong idea. We can't rebound very well if we are taking fast break shots and pushing tempo but maybe we can get some extra points on the board. Maybe not.

Tempo and high quality shots before the D gets in place is what a lot of fans have been clamoring for. As opposed to walking it up and playing half court with a defense set in place already.

 

[beeman7467]

I'd say roughly 20-25...


Paying him 2.5 million would have made him the 40th highest paid coach.

For the record, I wanted him to stay. However, I don't think he's a top 25 coach. Top 40, maybe, top 50 for sure. He has felt under appreciated for a long time at Cincinnati. It was small sample size that constantly chirped about him, but he listened for it. And if your if you're listening for it, that's a bad thing. Fans do what they do. You need to tune out the noise and go on about your business. If your ego is so fragile that you constantly need reinforcement at this level, good luck.

The new coach is going to deal with the same nonsense Cronin dealt with when he replaced Huggins. Brannen may or may not be the guy. I don't have any clue. But he deserves better run than killing him after a year if he doesn't win the league and make a tourney run. No clue what "team" he will even have to start the season. And even if he gets everyone back, remember, that's basically the same guys that Cronin took to a first round flame out earlier this year.

 

[justinhub2003]

from an LA Times article on the UCLA coaching search



"Cronin was also near the top of UCLA’s list and harbored such strong interest in the job that he agreed to go on standby as the school pursued other coaches."




bohn totally forced him out of here though.

You realize that he went on Standby because of the contract dispute. Bohn made a terrible offer and then didn't want to meet Mick's not so crazy demands.


Cronin wasn't Bohn's guy. He couldn't fire him but he absolutely did nothing to try and keep him. Nothing

 

[justinhub2003]

Some good points. We will have to wait and see I guess but WSU was ranked 122 on D in Kenpom and NKU was 130 last year. Roughly the same.

We will have to play well on both sides of the ball. We will still have to rebound and not turn it over etc. We created a winning formula for the AAC but it didn't equate that well in the dance lately for any of the teams.

I'm not sure the AAC model is the one we need to focus on. Gotta keep adapting and changing to the environment of NCAA basketball. Brannen is big into the analytics of how to do that from what I understand. It's one of the main reasons he was hired. He laid out the plan to the brass and got hired.

It was a proposal on how to do better in the tourney and I think much of that had to do with things like tempo and shooting %.

Thats a dreadful comparison though.


WSU had a complete rebuild. This years WSU team will be 2-3x better than last year. I mean, they had like 11 new players.


You can't play in the big dance if you don't win your league or at least compete for a league title.


I 100% expect John Brannen to make the tourney every single year without exception. Thats a bare minimum to match Cronin. And then I expect a sweet 16 every 3 years.


So In 9 years, I expect 9 tourney births, 3 sweet 16's and multiple guys drafted.,


People have said thats what we deserve so its what i will expect.