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I might just remember that wrong. I thought I heard Mick didn't want Downey because something happened and Herrera was 6-11 270..we could have used him IMO. I guess Adam H. was a better starter, come on people.

You do.

Herrera left on his own accord. Mick tried to convince Downey to stay. Downey told Mick he was transferring and was looking at other programs. So Mick recruited Vaughn and Vaughn committed. Downey then apparently wanted to come back but by then Mick already gave Vaughn his word.

Adam H was better than Herrera. Hernol Hall was better than both of them by a long shot but unfortunately was ruled ineligible because if memory serves, he played on a national team that was considered a professional team.

Hernol Hall: [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DJwiKdJtRo[/ame]
 
Losing Hernol Hall is actually the thing that hurt the rebuilding of this program. I'm not saying the kid was Kenyon Martin but, as the highlight video above shows, he was an aggressive big that could block shots and finish around the rim. Something we sorely lacked those first few years under Mick. This is just another example of the NCAA screwing a kid that did nothing wrong with their asinine rules. From gobearcats.com:

"During the certification process for his eligibility, it was determined that Hernol Hall played in organized basketball competition with Tiburones of Nicarugua and the Costa Rican national team during two calendar years after his 21st birthday" said McKinley. "NCAA Bylaw 14.2.3.5 states that for each calendar year that a prospect participates in any organized competition after their 21st birthday and before their initial enrollment in college, the prospect is charged with a season of eligibility. Since Hernol participated in two calendar years after turning 21 and he competed two years at Lon Morris College, he has exhausted his four years of collegiate eligibility."

"Coach Cronin and his staff were forced to recruit under unusual and exceptional time constraints and we signed nine excellent student-athletes," stated UC Director of Athletics Mike Thomas. "Under even the best of circumstances, recruiting international students presents some very unique challenges. My heart goes out to Hernol and the rest of our men's basketball family who were all under the impression that Hernol had eligibility remaining."

Head Coach Mick Cronin stated, "We are extremely disappointed with the outcome of Hernol's appeal. Hernol is a great player and an even better person and will remain a Bearcat. We will work with him everyday and continue to help him chase his dreams as a student and then as a professional player. Hernol is concerned about his teammates and has been through so much in his life that this is only a minor setback for him. When we told him, his main concern was us, he feels like he let us down, which we told him was not the case. Hernol will have no comment at this time. His entire story is very compelling and he will have his say when he is ready, right now he wants to be with his teammates."

Cronin added that "This is an unfortunate situation to say the least and we are not happy about losing arguably our best player and top recruit. That said, we will continue to work hard and build our program back to national prominence."
 
Here is a question I would like to hear what the majority opinion would be in this forum. Most of the fans here are more knowledgeable fans of BB and have a better understanding of UC BB history than do your average fan.

If you had a choice...what would you prefer?

A coach who puts the program in a better national public light in terms of graduation, grades, kids staying out of trouble, and having a non thug persona but you don't get a lot of top 5-10 squads.

or

A coach who gets results by winning league and tourney champs and gets to the NCAA's every year with highly nationally ranked squads consistently but doesn't quite get that more positive national image.

I am not asking this to compare Huggs and Cronin (even if comparisons can be made). I like(d) them both. I am asking in general...what would you rather have? Obviously we would all rather have both. I am also assuming the coach in scenario B isn't overly sleazy or having teams on probation.

I will save my opinion for later
 
You do.

Herrera left on his own accord. Mick tried to convince Downey to stay. Downey told Mick he was transferring and was looking at other programs. So Mick recruited Vaughn and Vaughn committed. Downey then apparently wanted to come back but by then Mick already gave Vaughn his word.

Adam H was better than Herrera. Hernol Hall was better than both of them by a long shot but unfortunately was ruled ineligible because if memory serves, he played on a national team that was considered a professional team.

Hernol Hall: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DJwiKdJtRo

Mick said no when Downey wanted to come back?? Well that's borderline insanity. Adam H was not better than anyone in the entire country playing basketball. Are you nuts?? Dude couldn't hit a layup for the life of him.
 
Here is a question I would like to hear what the majority opinion would be in this forum. Most of the fans here are more knowledgeable fans of BB and have a better understanding of UC BB history than do your average fan.

If you had a choice...what would you prefer?

A coach who puts the program in a better national public light in terms of graduation, grades, kids staying out of trouble, and having a non thug persona but you don't get a lot of top 5-10 squads.

or

A coach who gets results by winning league and tourney champs and gets to the NCAA's every year with highly nationally ranked squads consistently but doesn't quite get that more positive national image.

I am not asking this to compare Huggs and Cronin (even if comparisons can be made). I like(d) them both. I am asking in general...what would you rather have? Obviously we would all rather have both. I am also assuming the coach in scenario B isn't overly sleazy or having teams on probation.

I will save my opinion for later

OPTION TWO..winning is all that matters. I'm not paying to see scholars dunk the basketball.
 
OPTION TWO..winning is all that matters. I'm not paying to see scholars dunk the basketball.

Always knew you were a closet Xavier fan, thanks for making it obvious. I think a mixture of the two is the best, but I would much rather lean towards option 1. A good reputation will help your standing with recruits, and when you get better recruits, your national image usually improves.
 
Here is a question I would like to hear what the majority opinion would be in this forum. Most of the fans here are more knowledgeable fans of BB and have a better understanding of UC BB history than do your average fan.

If you had a choice...what would you prefer?

A coach who puts the program in a better national public light in terms of graduation, grades, kids staying out of trouble, and having a non thug persona but you don't get a lot of top 5-10 squads.

or

A coach who gets results by winning league and tourney champs and gets to the NCAA's every year with highly nationally ranked squads consistently but doesn't quite get that more positive national image.

I am not asking this to compare Huggs and Cronin (even if comparisons can be made). I like(d) them both. I am asking in general...what would you rather have? Obviously we would all rather have both. I am also assuming the coach in scenario B isn't overly sleazy or having teams on probation.

I will save my opinion for later

Depends if you are an alum. If not you don't care about the University's reputation. As an alum, I believe it is very important.
 
The problem with option 2 is that it is hard to maintain, too many guys leave the program or never make it to campus. Part of the reason why Mick had no one when he came in was because Dom Tilford, Roy Bright, Herrera, Tyree Evans, etc didn't stick around (even if those guys were to transfer when Mick came in).
 
The problem with option 2 is that it is hard to maintain, too many guys leave the program or never make it to campus. Part of the reason why Mick had no one when he came in was because Dom Tilford, Roy Bright, Herrera, Tyree Evans, etc didn't stick around (even if those guys were to transfer when Mick came in).

Woooow, Roy Bright lol completely forgot about him. Dom Tilford was an epic bust too. Good stuff
 
Mick said no when Downey wanted to come back?? Well that's borderline insanity. Adam H was not better than anyone in the entire country playing basketball. Are you nuts?? Dude couldn't hit a layup for the life of him.

Abdul Herrera's stats 2008-09

Stat Summary:

Season GP MPG PPG FG% 3FG% FT% APG RPG BPG SPG
2008-09 4 4.5 1.2 50.0 0.0 25.0 0.2 1.2 0.8 0.0

http://kstateupdate.com/kansas-state-basketball/roster_player_games/abdul-herrera

That 1.2 points really would have sped up the rebuilding process. I can't find stats for Adam H but fundamentally he was pretty solid, did the little things, box out, set vicious picks. I think the chances he averaged less than AH are very low.

The Downey coming back I think was a strong rumor. I don't think it was ever public that Downey wanted to come back.
 
Always knew you were a closet Xavier fan, thanks for making it obvious. I think a mixture of the two is the best, but I would much rather lean towards option 1. A good reputation will help your standing with recruits, and when you get better recruits, your national image usually improves.

Xavier fan?? Where did that come from. I would argue I've been to more UC games than the majority on this board.
 
Mick said no when Downey wanted to come back?? Well that's borderline insanity. Adam H was not better than anyone in the entire country playing basketball. Are you nuts?? Dude couldn't hit a layup for the life of him.

Adam H was better than Herrera...easily. He averaged 6 pts and 5 rebounds and shot 71% from the line in the one season he was allowed to play. Hell, I wish Justin Jackson would provide those numbers.
 
Adam H was better than Herrera...easily. He averaged 6 pts and 5 rebounds and shot 71% from the line in the one season he was allowed to play. Hell, I wish Justin Jackson would provide those numbers.

Adam H was terrible. I don't care who you compare him to. He missed more layups than he had pts
 
Adam H was terrible. I don't care who you compare him to. He missed more layups than he had pts

Maybe but he was still a lot better than Herrera, who was a Huggins recruit. That should tell you something about the level of recruiting going on during Huggins late years.
 
Maybe but he was still a lot better than Herrera, who was a Huggins recruit. That should tell you something about the level of recruiting going on during Huggins late years.

Bad memories of Asrangue Souleyman stealing condoms...Vincent Banks and Tyree Evans failing to qualify twice also come to mind. Those later years of Huggins were depressing. It is too bad because Bill Walker and Michael Beasley along with Devan Downey would have been a great class if he wasn't fired that year.
 
Adam H was better than Herrera...easily. He averaged 6 pts and 5 rebounds and shot 71% from the line in the one season he was allowed to play. Hell, I wish Justin Jackson would provide those numbers.

I respect you opinion TLH..but there is not a shot in hell Adam was better than Herrera. He was quite possibly the worst Bearcat I've seen take the floor.
 
Bad memories of Asrangue Souleyman stealing condoms...Vincent Banks and Tyree Evans failing to qualify twice also come to mind. Those later years of Huggins were depressing. It is too bad because Bill Walker and Michael Beasley along with Devan Downey would have been a great class if he wasn't fired that year.

Walker yes, but highly doubtful about Beasley. I did like Downey, wish he would have stayed. On the other hand, if Huggins were kept, there may not have been any UC hoops to talk about for a while. We were on pretty shaky ground as far as the NCAA was concerned back then.
 
I respect you opinion TLH..but there is not a shot in hell Adam was better than Herrera. He was quite possibly the worst Bearcat I've seen take the floor.

Did you ever actually watch Herrera play? I would assume not since there is nothing that Herrera has ever done that would point to him being better than Adam. I know everyone loves to hate on Adam because he missed a ton of layups but he was still better than Herrera by a long shot and he was obviously better than any other big man that UC had, hence the PT. Herrera couldn't play anywhere.

Offensively, Adam H was better than Mbodj. He was a better rebounder too.
 
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