Mid Season Synergy Grades

[justinhub2003]

I question these metrics if they are telling me Quadri was an excellent defender. He’s one of the worst I’ve ever seen. No one ever seen quad and said he is a good defender. No one. Maybe that was a sample size thing.

His last season at UC he defended well.

But zone is a little tougher to gauge because mick can hide him.

In this man to man stuff, it’s hard to hide your warts.

 

[cincrulz11]

I question these metrics if they are telling me Quadri was an excellent defender. He’s one of the worst I’ve ever seen. No one ever seen quad and said he is a good defender. No one. Maybe that was a sample size thing.

if your guy just misses open shots in a small sample it will say you're a good defender, just like if your guy hits tough shots in a small sample it will say you're a bad defender.

 

[cincyguy13]

His last season at UC he defended well.

But zone is a little tougher to gauge because mick can hide him.

In this man to man stuff, it’s hard to hide your warts.

I never seen him defend well. He couldn’t move, didn’t know what was going on, and didn’t really try. I watched every minute of his career. Had to be the zone and maybe a smaller sample. There’s a reason he’s playing D3

 

[justinhub2003]

if your guy just misses open shots in a small sample it will say you're a good defender, just like if your guy hits tough shots in a small sample it will say you're a bad defender.

But we’re getting well past the point of small sample size.

If guys are always getting “lucky” every time YOU guard them, it’s probably something to do with you.

I have zero issues with his limitations defensively, more so just wish we’d use him to his strength instead of letting teams exploit his weakness.

Synergy is the tool coaches use to scout. They see these numbers to and they immediately try and do things to exploit it.

Diarra defensively is better suited for this defense because he can erase mistakes.

But Vogt is so good offensively, you have to play him.

 

[cincrulz11]

But we’re getting well past the point of small sample size.

i was talking about his quadri example

 

[cincyguy13]

But we’re getting well past the point of small sample size.

If guys are always getting “lucky” every time YOU guard them, it’s probably something to do with you.

I have zero issues with his limitations defensively, more so just wish we’d use him to his strength instead of letting teams exploit his weakness.

Synergy is the tool coaches use to scout. They see these numbers to and they immediately try and do things to exploit it.

Diarra defensively is better suited for this defense because he can erase mistakes.

But Vogt is so good offensively, you have to play him.

I think we are all in agreement Vogt can’t play defense. Simply can’t move. Hope diarra keeps improving to where we can play him more. For this year and the future. I think diarra will be a big help against Memphis if he isn’t doing stupid stuff.

 

[sedziobs]

Synergy is the tool coaches use to scout. They see these numbers to and they immediately try and do things to exploit it.

Synergy is a tool coaches use to scout. None of us has any idea how or for what purposes they are using it. I would guess defensive grades are supplementary at best. Video indexing seems like the most useful part, although teams might already use other software for that. For fans, it's just something fun to look at.

 

[cincyguy13]

Synergy is a tool coaches use to scout. None of us has any idea how or for what purposes they are using it. I would guess defensive grades are supplementary at best. Video indexing seems like the most useful part, although teams might already use other software for that. For fans, it's just something fun to look at.

I agree. Metrics are fun to look at but without the whole story it’s hard to live and die by. We don’t know what the players are supposed to be doing. I know cronin would tell his guys to let certain players shoot. I’m not sure how the metrics could account for things like that.

 

[kskenyon4]

I agree. Metrics are fun to look at but without the whole story it’s hard to live and die by. We don’t know what the players are supposed to be doing. I know cronin would tell his guys to let certain players shoot. I’m not sure how the metrics could account for things like that.

Great point.

Some of these surprised me, and I'm not claiming to be a basketball expert, but theres smart plays and dumb plays, and metrics have a hard time determining the impact of the right play at the right time, or wrong play at the wrong time. IE Harvey on defense, or Jarron on offense. Both seem off to me.

 

[justinhub2003]

Great point.

Some of these surprised me, and I'm not claiming to be a basketball expert, but theres smart plays and dumb plays, and metrics have a hard time determining the impact of the right play at the right time, or wrong play at the wrong time. IE Harvey on defense, or Jarron on offense. Both seem off to me.

Jarron’s offense isn’t off in the metrics.

He was off.


He’s had 4 straight kenpom offensive ratings of 100 or better since conference play started.

Before that, he had just 1 game in 12 games where he had a 100 or better and it was against drake.

Jarron has been inefficient most of the season, the numbers reflect that.

 

[justinhub2003]

Synergy is a tool coaches use to scout. None of us has any idea how or for what purposes they are using it. I would guess defensive grades are supplementary at best. Video indexing seems like the most useful part, although teams might already use other software for that. For fans, it's just something fun to look at.

I can tell you that UC uses synergy.

It’s the main scouting tool. Especially for in depth player analysis.


There is a reason why it’s 30 bucks a month for the crippled version I use vs the one the schools uses which you can’t get access to unless your a member of the team.

 

[TheLongHaul]

I think we are all in agreement Vogt can’t play defense. Simply can’t move. Hope diarra keeps improving to where we can play him more. For this year and the future. I think diarra will be a big help against Memphis if he isn’t doing stupid stuff.

not good at perimeter defense. His interior defense is actually pretty good.

 

[justinhub2003]

not good at perimeter defense. His interior defense is actually pretty good.

Numbers don’t show that tho.

They used to

 

[Jon Rycek]

Chris Vogt: Poor (1.143 ppp) 4%, why would anyone complain about his defense?

I read that, and just thought here we go. I feel like you read that over and over and had a really good night with yourself in your room. But he’s also by far our best scorer as far as these grades are concerned. Averaging .15 PPP over the next guy, and pretty much .25 over everybody else besides a 3 point sharpshooter. His defense has a lot to be desired. And idk enough about these rankings to know if they’re based on the guy he’s specifically on, or if it’s like a whoever’s closest kind of thing. Because If the second one is the case, I’m not gonna blame him for slow help side defense every time one of our other guys lets someone get by him. Cause he’s always gonna be the guy closest to the hoop.

 

[waterhead]

Numbers don’t show that tho.

They used to

I don't want to make too many excuses but here we go. As someone has already mentioned he has had quite a number of shots go in on him that were difficult to make. Him being pulled to the perimeter and/or trying to close on a guard that got through his defender is going to make him look worse in the numbers as he's just not that mobile obviously.

My third point is...I remember Vogt started off in foul trouble early and he's was bringing his arms down on the player. I wonder just how much after a few games Brannen thought he needed to keep him on the court. He's keeping his arms straight up a lot more now and he's also been able to stay on the floor. perhaps he's been asked to be a little less aggressive with fouls so he can stay on the court. That would also affect his defense a bit.

I do think he is pretty good guarding a traditional big and not giving up position. But I would agree we have to keep him in the paint as much as humanly possible and our guards have to do a better job of staying in front of their man to mitigate his weaknesses.

 

[waterhead]

I don't want to make too many excuses but here we go. As someone has already mentioned he has had quite a number of shots go in on him that were difficult to make. Him being pulled to the perimeter and/or trying to close on a guard that got through his defender is going to make him look worse in the numbers as he's just not that mobile obviously.

My third point is...I remember Vogt started off in foul trouble early and he's was bringing his arms down on the player. I wonder just how much after a few games Brannen thought he needed to keep him on the court. He's keeping his arms straight up a lot more now and he's also been able to stay on the floor. perhaps he's been asked to be a little less aggressive with fouls so he can stay on the court. That would also affect his defense a bit.

I do think he is pretty good guarding a traditional big and not giving up position. But I would agree we have to keep him in the paint as much as humanly possible and our guards have to do a better job of staying in front of their man to mitigate his weaknesses.

The reason I offer that 3rd point is that CJB doesn't seem all that concerned with his D. You don't hear him in pressers calling him out much. I seem to remember coach talking about Vogts arms coming down on fouls early in the season. Certainly if coach has access to and is looking at Synergy numbers he can see where Vogt currently stands on D. Or coach already knows his limitations and can't blame him for putting Vogt in those spots. Either way he wants him on the court for 30 mpg.

 

[cincrulz11]

The reason I offer that 3rd point is that CJB doesn't seem all that concerned with his D. You don't hear him in pressers calling him out much. I seem to remember coach talking about Vogts arms coming down on fouls early in the season. Certainly if coach has access to and is looking at Synergy numbers he can see where Vogt currently stands on D. Or coach already knows his limitations and can't blame him for putting Vogt in those spots. Either way he wants him on the court for 30 mpg.

shooting 70% from the field covers up a lot of deficiencies on defense.


my biggest concern with Vogt these days is his increasing TOrate. He's gotta do a much better job when the doubles come, 28.3 TOrate in conference is not gonna work.

 

[cincyguy13]

I don't want to make too many excuses but here we go. As someone has already mentioned he has had quite a number of shots go in on him that were difficult to make. Him being pulled to the perimeter and/or trying to close on a guard that got through his defender is going to make him look worse in the numbers as he's just not that mobile obviously.

My third point is...I remember Vogt started off in foul trouble early and he's was bringing his arms down on the player. I wonder just how much after a few games Brannen thought he needed to keep him on the court. He's keeping his arms straight up a lot more now and he's also been able to stay on the floor. perhaps he's been asked to be a little less aggressive with fouls so he can stay on the court. That would also affect his defense a bit.

I do think he is pretty good guarding a traditional big and not giving up position. But I would agree we have to keep him in the paint as much as humanly possible and our guards have to do a better job of staying in front of their man to mitigate his weaknesses.

This. Sometimes it’s more important for a guy to stay on the court than try to be aggressive on defense. I think that is some of it with Vogt and Jarron. Not all. Their offense is too valuable to be too aggressive on defense.

 

[waterhead]

shooting 70% from the field covers up a lot of deficiencies on defense.


my biggest concern with Vogt these days is his increasing TOrate. He's gotta do a much better job when the doubles come, 28.3 TOrate in conference is not gonna work.

Agreed on turnovers. Up until recently he never had to worry about getting doubled. It's new to him but his passing out of the double at the right time is going to be important. Que up some Gary Clark videos.

Does Synergy have the plus minus stats? That would be a good way to look at his overall value. His box +/- looks good but that never tells the whole story.

 

[TheLongHaul]

Numbers don’t show that tho.

They used to

#'s only tell you so much. Hence the reason it showed Quadri being good and Diarri being really good. Quadri was not good at anything.