Midnight Madness

[skyblade]

Personally, I would like to see them try "no true point guard and no true center" lineups. I think Cumberland, Cumberland, Williams, Scott, Harvey would be the most talented lineup they could field. Nova won a title in 2016 starting 4 guards that were 6'3, 6'3, 6'5, and 6'6 along with a single big man. Swapping out one of the guards for a true PG would also be a quality lineup, but Scott should be a C more often than not.

There would be a problem with rim protection, but aside form Diarra I don't think this team has a rim protector whose flaws don't overwhelm the benefits. The 7-footers should be mostly watching if this team is going to be any good.

I think the mix-and-match approach is best until we see what works. I'd agree that Cumberland, Cumberland, Williams and Scott are our four best players. But from there, the 5th best player could be one of a number of players. I expect early in the season we will see a lot of variation until we figure out what works.

We'd be giving up a lot of size to the other team if we play small-ball with Scott as the center. It's worth trying and maybe it can be done, but I think we'd have to really excel on offense (and pressing/creating steals) with that line-up to make up for our lack of interior defense and rebounding.

With Diarra's athleticism, I wonder if we could also see a big-ball lineup at some point. Cumberland, Cumberland, Scott, Diarra and Vogt/Sorolla. Scott and Diarra both seem to have improved at ball handling and seem just as capable at shooting the three as any non-Cumberland on the team. Doubt we would play it much, but could be something interesting to try now and then.

 

[cincrulz11]

Personally, I would like to see them try "no true point guard and no true center" lineups. I think Cumberland, Cumberland, Williams, Scott, Harvey would be the most talented lineup they could field. Nova won a title in 2016 starting 4 guards that were 6'3, 6'3, 6'5, and 6'6 along with a single big man. Swapping out one of the guards for a true PG would also be a quality lineup, but Scott should be a C more often than not.

There would be a problem with rim protection, but aside form Diarra I don't think this team has a rim protector whose flaws don't overwhelm the benefits. The 7-footers should be mostly watching if this team is going to be any good.

i just wanna see us put the 5 best players on the court together. i know, a crazy concept.



i think also we're going to see a lot of opponent specific lineups. slow it down half court games will probably see the 7-footers get some decent minutes. i can also see games where they barely even get in.

 

[Jon Rycek]

They've put the Midnight Madness on YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvh8ky9QRRc


LOL It was hardly madness. I know it's just supposed to be a scrimmage for fans but the quality of play has me a bit concerned. Luckily it's early and coach has time to work the players into shape. Mostly concerned with outside shooting, but the lack of effort from Vogt and Scarolla was alarming.

Big lack of movement on defense. Too much watching from everyone. Scott was a bright spot as far as effort, but he still struggled to dunk more than once. Can't understand that with his level of experience. We need finishers on the inside.

I try to balance negative and positive. This wasn't a real game and they've just started. I just expected to see guys looking a little more polished than this.

Not sure what you were watching lmao, I saw plenty of good things in the scrimmage. And we are not gonna struggle from deep this year, smh.

 

[Emperor Snapper]

I think the mix-and-match approach is best until we see what works. I'd agree that Cumberland, Cumberland, Williams and Scott are our four best players. But from there, the 5th best player could be one of a number of players. I expect early in the season we will see a lot of variation until we figure out what works.

We'd be giving up a lot of size to the other team if we play small-ball with Scott as the center. It's worth trying and maybe it can be done, but I think we'd have to really excel on offense (and pressing/creating steals) with that line-up to make up for our lack of interior defense and rebounding.

With Diarra's athleticism, I wonder if we could also see a big-ball lineup at some point. Cumberland, Cumberland, Scott, Diarra and Vogt/Sorolla. Scott and Diarra both seem to have improved at ball handling and seem just as capable at shooting the three as any non-Cumberland on the team. Doubt we would play it much, but could be something interesting to try now and then.

I just fear that Vogt and Sorolla are not competitive high-level D-1 players. Both have been pretty ineffective against lesser competition, so unless they make huge strides they are going to get whipped in conference play.

A 7-footer who gets posterized 3 times a game and forces you to play 4-on-5 when you have the ball is not a benefit just because he is tall. I am more confident that Diarra and Scott can be effective in the middle than either of the BDWG

 

[Jon Rycek]

I just fear that Vogt and Sorolla are not competitive high-level D-1 players. Both have been pretty ineffective against lesser competition, so unless they make huge strides they are going to get whipped in conference play.

A 7-footer who gets posterized 3 times a game and forces you to play 4-on-5 when you have the ball is not a benefit just because he is tall. I am more confident that Diarra and Scott can be effective in the middle than either of the BDWG

Again didn’t really see much of that, I also saw how Sorolla can stretch the floor.

 

[skyblade]

Again didn’t really see much of that, I also saw how Sorolla can stretch the floor.

I'm not sure what you were watching then. Sorolla played absolutely horrible defense and was lazy on offensive rebounding as well. The reason McNeal (among others) had such success getting to the basket is because Sorolla did basically nothing to protect the rim. It may have been because he was tired, but he also put up terrible offensive rebounding numbers last year - so he may just be lazy.

Sorolla looks the part - he has the height and muscle - but so far nothing indicates he is good enough to play at this level. He did show a nice shooting touch with the mid-range jumper.

Vogt did more defensively and rebounding-wise than Sorolla, but he still looks a bit skinny for his size and doesn't have any shooting ability.

 

[Garybearcat]

Jarron will be okay and will be ready for 2019 season. Sleep well Bearcat fans!

 

[Emperor Snapper]

Again didn’t really see much of that, I also saw how Sorolla can stretch the floor.

Dude was a bad backup center in the Missouri Valley Conference. What are the odds he has suddenly improved enough over the summer to be a credible rotation player against much tougher competition? Vogt was an ineffective and almost comically foul prone backup center in the Horizon league. These were places where their size would have been an even greater advantage, and they were not good.

Consider how good Cane Broome was against lower-level D1 competition compared to playing in the AAC. Broome's skillset was better suited to moving up in competition, and neither of these guys were effective in a small time league. The odds they are going to be better against players of greater ability is long.

 

[itsamemario]

I get it that its all we have to work with right now, but i also cant believe people are taking anything from midnight madness. The team had a hardcore practice at 4 PM (they dont even do hardcore practices the day before real games, let alone the same day). Then the team spent the next 5-6 hours at the tailgate and the football game. THEN 3 hours later at 1 in the morning(maybe a little after) they scrimmaged for 13 minutes. If Jarron would have played we would be spending the next month talking about how much he regressed over the summer, luckily he didnt play, but now we get to talk about how bad everyone else is...yay

 

[waterhead]

I get it that its all we have to work with right now, but i also cant believe people are taking anything from midnight madness. The team had a hardcore practice at 4 PM (they dont even do hardcore practices the day before real games, let alone the same day). Then the team spent the next 5-6 hours at the tailgate and the football game. THEN 3 hours later at 1 in the morning(maybe a little after) they scrimmaged for 13 minutes. If Jarron would have played we would be spending the next month talking about how much he regressed over the summer, luckily he didnt play, but now we get to talk about how bad everyone else is...yay

I agree...not much we can take from the scrimmage. Especially on D. I am sure the objective was to have fun and not get hurt.

But some of the main issues we all had before the scrimmage will likely still be issues that we have to find a way to hide. Mainly we need another shooter to step up and one of the 7 footers will have to be at least an average play for us if we are going to use them for a significant portion of any game.

If Harvey were a soph I would think we could play a lot of small ball...but he will have his growing pains I am sure. I think McNeal and Jaevin are the two players likely to be the most ready to play at this level after Jarron, SCott and Williams. We should probably use that lineup any time we can if we aren't getting abused inside or on the boards.

 

[cincrulz11]

I agree...not much we can take from the scrimmage. Especially on D. I am sure the objective was to have fun and not get hurt.

But some of the main issues we all had before the scrimmage will likely still be issues that we have to find a way to hide. Mainly we need another shooter to step up and one of the 7 footers will have to be at least an average play for us if we are going to use them for a significant portion of any game.

If Harvey were a soph I would think we could play a lot of small ball...but he will have his growing pains I am sure. I think McNeal and Jaevin are the two players likely to be the most ready to play at this level after Jarron, SCott and Williams. We should probably use that lineup any time we can if we aren't getting abused inside or on the boards.

much better spacing. 2 pure shooters. 2 slashers plus scott. i dont think we need more shooters. if we get the spacing right we're gonna have a tough offense.


its gonna be much easier on our guys that can drive when we don't have 2 guys on each block the entire game.


penetrate, force rotations, pass pass open 3. the stuff good offenses did to us.


on defense i think we'll be worse defending 2 point shots, but i think we'll have a better plan vs 3 point shooters. defense might be better than we think.

 

[waterhead]

much better spacing. 2 pure shooters. 2 slashers plus scott. i dont think we need more shooters. if we get the spacing right we're gonna have a tough offense.


its gonna be much easier on our guys that can drive when we don't have 2 guys on each block the entire game.


penetrate, force rotations, pass pass open 3. the stuff good offenses did to us.


on defense i think we'll be worse defending 2 point shots, but i think we'll have a better plan vs 3 point shooters. defense might be better than we think.

Some very good points here. One thing I might take a slight exception with is having shooters. Obviously the Cumberlands can shoot. But with the emphasis CJB will have on pace and sprinting up and down they can't play as long as we would like (40 minutes haha). When one is off the court we need someone who can make a reliable 3 ball or at least be serviceable to keep those lanes open. I agree with not having two guys on the blocks opening things up as well and I don't expect much if any of that.

I watched the Brannen presser. He continues to talk about pace and getting used to sprinting to spots in half court and getting up and down the court. It's clear it is a major point of emphasis and maybe THE point of emphasis. He talked about McNeal seemingly in very high regard. He works out 3 times a day and he's always first in sprints etc. Got a good head on his shoulders as well...and said he's tough. Sounds like McNeal is not only ready but a perfect PG for brannen unless or until he wants to play some positionless BB and maybe move a wing over to point.

The similarities with McNeal and what Saunders will bring in terms of speed seems to be a high priority for coach. So it sounds like he's got his right man for now and the future as well.

 

[skyblade]

I still have to see it to believe it from McNeal. His historical stats don't really look good. A low-percentage/high volume three point shooter and a not that impressive assist/TO ratio. All against weaker competition than he will face here. To me, he is very similar to Sorolla/Vogt, guys who I don't expect much from, but hope to be surprised.

I'd say Jarron, Scott and Williams are our obvious top three guys. After than, I'd guess that Jaevin and Diarra are going to be our two next best players.

Besides those five, I'd say the other guys are all unproven for one reason or another (though you could argue Jaevin and Diarra are also unproven). I'm hoping 2 or 3 of them are good enough to provide quality minutes. I'd say McNeal, Moore, Harvey and Sorolla are the most likely to be able to do that, but they need to prove it on the court.

 

[justinhub2003]

I feel really good about 1-4 on this team and that includes the bench depth as well.

But the 5 spot is...really concerning. I mean imagine Sorolla or Vogt matching up against Caleb Wesson, James Wiseman, Tyrique Jones, and others.

I just don't think Vogt or Sorolla are ready for the kinda competition they will be facing. I wish Brooks had stayed, because he not only starts but he also helps develop Vogt/Sorolla and get them used to AAC level physicality.

I do trust Tre Scott to play his ass off and I could see him having a Gary Clark like Impact on this team. I really like McNeal, he just seems like a workhorse.

 

[cincrulz11]

I feel really good about 1-4 on this team and that includes the bench depth as well.

But the 5 spot is...really concerning. I mean imagine Sorolla or Vogt matching up against Caleb Wesson, James Wiseman, Tyrique Jones, and others.

I just don't think Vogt or Sorolla are ready for the kinda competition they will be facing. I wish Brooks had stayed, because he not only starts but he also helps develop Vogt/Sorolla and get them used to AAC level physicality.

I do trust Tre Scott to play his ass off and I could see him having a Gary Clark like Impact on this team. I really like McNeal, he just seems like a workhorse.

when we play the good bigs lets go the houston route of playing defense. grab and hold all game cause they can't call them all. use up the 10 fouls and wear out the other teams big!

 

[justinhub2003]

when we play the good bigs lets go the houston route of playing defense. grab and hold all game cause they can't call them all. use up the 10 fouls and wear out the other teams big!

Im actually fine with that approach to be honest.

But, Houston Bigs were tough as nails and were really good rebounders. The Tape I've watched of Vogt and Sorolla, didn't exactly show those qualities.

that said, Im hoping we just make more shots on the first attempt and don't have to rely on offensive rebounding nearly as much. But there will be games I think we lose because of rebounding.

 

[cincrulz11]

Im actually fine with that approach to be honest.

But, Houston Bigs were tough as nails and were really good rebounders. The Tape I've watched of Vogt and Sorolla, didn't exactly show those qualities.

that said, Im hoping we just make more shots on the first attempt and don't have to rely on offensive rebounding nearly as much. But there will be games I think we lose because of rebounding.

we might not get as many offensive rebounds, but defensively we were terrible at preventing offensive boards, most likely due to how our defense worked.



i see some potential improvements in some areas and some backsliding in others. hopefully it all comes out as a net positive.

 

[waterhead]

I still have to see it to believe it from McNeal. His historical stats don't really look good. A low-percentage/high volume three point shooter and a not that impressive assist/TO ratio. All against weaker competition than he will face here. To me, he is very similar to Sorolla/Vogt, guys who I don't expect much from, but hope to be surprised.

I'd say Jarron, Scott and Williams are our obvious top three guys. After than, I'd guess that Jaevin and Diarra are going to be our two next best players.

Besides those five, I'd say the other guys are all unproven for one reason or another (though you could argue Jaevin and Diarra are also unproven). I'm hoping 2 or 3 of them are good enough to provide quality minutes. I'd say McNeal, Moore, Harvey and Sorolla are the most likely to be able to do that, but they need to prove it on the court.

Some fair points on McNeal. I don't expect him to be a world beater but I think he will be serviceable for what we need at PG. If we can get him at 2 or 2.5 to 1 on assist to turnover and up his shooting to 33-35% from 3 that would be great for him. I don't think that would be unattainable for him but who knows. He won't need to be a primary scoring option.

His speed is going to fit right in for getting up the court for easy early looks. And he can break a defender down which means he can either get to the rack, open up shooters, or dish to the bigs when help comes. Sounds like he is strong as well so he can probably take the grind and physicality in the AAC. Don't think he will need much time to adjust.

 

[itsamemario]

Im actually fine with that approach to be honest.

But, Houston Bigs were tough as nails and were really good rebounders. The Tape I've watched of Vogt and Sorolla, didn't exactly show those qualities.

that said, Im hoping we just make more shots on the first attempt and don't have to rely on offensive rebounding nearly as much. But there will be games I think we lose because of rebounding.

just foul chris harris. He isnt making free throws

 

[justinhub2003]

just foul chris harris. He isnt making free throws

I mean, If they Foul Chris Vogt, he aint making em either... I think he shot 38% from the line last season at NKU