Morehead State

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Mick loves experience we all know that and IMO he will stick with Guyn and Thomas as the starters but that doesn't mean we can't have the best 6th man (Cobb).
 
TheLongHaul said:
Cobb and Ellis definitely look like the two best players out there. Ellis has been the most consistent but even without his shooting Cobb seems the most composed on offense (him, not Caupain was the one that knew how to break the press). Add in his deadly range and he needs to be on the floor at all times. Hopefully last night gets him a start.

Guyn and Sanders did very little. Still not sure what Guyn adds to this team. Sanders is okay for an occasional wide open 3 but that's about it.

Shaq is incredibly disappointing. I know Mick says he doesn't pull guys for bad shots but he should and Shaq should be pulled every time he takes a 3. Why does Mick pull players for turnovers when a bad shot is the same thing?

Caupain has been disappointing me so far this season. Even though his stat line was good last night he never looked like the floor leader. He took some bad shots, made lazy passes, and still looks too slow. I'm confident he will turn it around because he impressed me last season.

I'm hoping KJ needs to get a rythm going because so far he hasn't done anything to deserve PT. Same with Morman.

All big guys except Ellis look really slow. I like the potential of Moore but it's going to take some time. And I hope I'm wrong about Clark but I do not see what the hype was about him. He looks slow footed, timid, and from watching him shoot in warmups he doesn't appear to have any face up game. At least he looks like he can rebound. I'm waiting to see the athleticism we all have been hearing about. Hopefully he is just having a slow start while he gets his legs under him.
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Mick pulls people for bad defense not shots.

Caupain was good lastnight. He helped get the oppositon in foul trouble early by driving and drawing the contact but missed the free throws.It is why Morehead state had to go to a zone which enabled Cobb and sanders to get some open looks. He also didn't have a turnover. Between him and Cobb they had one turnover.

Clark had 8 boards and played solid defense. He also is a good passer for a big. his points will come.
 
I'm surprised people are being tough on Caupain. Yeah he started 1-4 from the line, but he made his last 7 and played a good all around game. I'd take games like that from him all the time.
 
Bearcatboy said:
Mick loves experience we all know that and IMO he will stick with Guyn and Thomas as the starters but that doesn't mean we can't have the best 6th man (Cobb).
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If Guyn and Thomas continue to start, we will continue to get off to slow starts offensively. And that is the last thing we need. I would like to see Sanders starting over Shaq and anyone on the team over Guyn. But I wouldn't be surprised at all if Mick stuck with those guys anyway.
 
It looks like our upper-classmen are our worst players -- which is good and bad. I hope Cronin makes them earn playing time, just like the youngins. I believe someone else said it, but as of right now, I think a lineup of Caupain, Cobb, Sanders, Clark, and Ellis gives us the best chance to win. Granted, that could change in a week, but they've impressed me the most so far. They deserve the most minutes at this point.
 
WAITE HOYT 2 said:
Mick pulls people for bad defense not shots
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I'm pretty sure I said he doesn't pull people for bad shots? Turnovers and defense, that's it. And to the other person who said it was a cliche, it certainly isn't. Is a bad shot literally the same thing as a turnover? Of course not, but they are very similar. Bad shots rarely go in, hence the reason they are called bad shots.
 
jacobkdoyle said:
If Guyn and Thomas continue to start, we will continue to get off to slow starts offensively. And that is the last thing we need. I would like to see Sanders starting over Shaq and anyone on the team over Guyn. But I wouldn't be surprised at all if Mick stuck with those guys anyway.
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Mick has been known to stick with the same starting lineups for both the start of the game and the start of the second half. Even when things are going well in the first half with a different lineup he tends to start the second half with the normal lineup. That said, I think it's going to be very hard to keep Cobb out of the starting lineup. Guyn brings very little, and maybe Shaq would be better suited coming off the bench, but not sure who would start over Shaq.
 
Shaq is a great defender. I just wish he could score.

Honestly, I'd start Caupain and Cobb right now. Cobb can play the 2 and he's a more effective scorer than anyone else we have. Saunders, for all of my griping about him, does make big shots (he hit some big 3s last year and last night). I think this team needs to look for their shots. Moore had a wide open 3 and passed on it. The only big guy we have who demands the ball is Ellis.

Last year we had similar problems - only SK wanted to shoot the ball, and teams ended up locking down on him and daring anyone else to shoot.
 
TheLongHaul said:
I'm pretty sure I said he doesn't pull people for bad shots? Turnovers and defense, that's it. And to the other person who said it was a cliche, it certainly isn't. Is a bad shot literally the same thing as a turnover? Of course not, but they are very similar. Bad shots rarely go in, hence the reason they are called bad shots.
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They can also be rebounded for a put back. They also result in fewer transition opportunities than live ball turnovers.

And if we're getting right down to it, take a look at the expectation.

Hypothetically I think we would all agree if a guys career 3pt% is 20% we don't want him shooting 3's.

Still on average that shot is worth .6 of a point.

During the Mick era we've scored between 1.01 and 1.09 pts per possession over the course of a season.

Getting half of that production on a possession vs ZERO makes a huge difference.
 
Clark reminds me of another player who was an incredible bust in our program. He has no offensive game. He looks slow. He looks timid. I hate it when we recruit these type of players. That damn "bust" of a player coincidently was from North carolina also. His name was Eric Hicks. He even ended up quitting the team for a brief period as a freshman and only averaged 2 points per game. Everyone was highly disappointed with him too. Looks like we've probably got another one of those types of players with Clark.

As to whether or not Cobb will play like that in the future, when we recruited another unknown JC transfer named Nick Van Exel, we all had the same disbelief that he could sustain the first performance we saw that was amazing. Momentum and confidence are an amazing thing. That young man came alive last night and reminded me of the first time I was amazed by Nick Van Exel at about this same point in his first season with us. I'n going to choose to believe that last night was the real Farad Cobb and if it is, he may be the missing piece to this puzzle.....a real shooter finally.

I actually thought we looked rather good against the zone...not at first...but when Mick got the right players in there, we attacked it well. My initial thought was, "Oh hell, if they stick with this zone, no way we're going to win this game." Mick had some crazy player combinations in there initially to attack it, but to his credit, he eventually found the right one and he struck gold!

Lastly, the biggest thing I took away from last night was about Mick himself. I've always found fault with the timing of his substitutions, and the wierd times that he would substitute for players who were hot and on a roll. Last night, he stuck with the hot lineup, and I loved that. I really wanted him to get Morman and Johnson back in there, but he stuck with Caupain and Cobb and rode them to a nice victory. That was good coaching!
 
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If I have a point guard score double digits, hand out 6 assists and pull down 5 rebounds I will take it every time out. Amazing people are dogging TC. JUST INSANE IN MY OPINION.

Clark is thinking and not playing that is why he seems slow. If he pulls down 8 boards a game and gives you double digit points here and there as a frosh you call that a good freshman year. Again I don't get the complaints.

Cobb and Ellis are the only two new guys playing and not thinking. They all are either feeling their way on offense, defense or both. It's two games in. Goodness guys chill out and let three guys grow and develop. We all knew it's a process and will be.
That said give me TC, Cobb, Shaq till someone else steps up, Clark and Ellis.
 
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Mick said he has been starting his best 4 defenders with Troy. He likes bringing offensive minded players like Cobb, Moore and Johnson off the bench. However he did say that things will likely change.
 
I think last night was a solid victory for this early in the season. Morehead State gave us a good look at what we need to work on and tested this young team. KJ and Morman will come around. Shaq... Kind of worried about, but I do think he will snap out of this and get 8-10 PPG this year off floaters and mid range shots. He was looking like Rubles shooting that 3. I do worry when Ellis comes out of the game. He really needs to stay out of foul trouble this year. Clark is one of my favorites and he is doing exactly what we need right now- rebounding and defense. Any offense he contributes is a nice bonus. All around I am happy with the win. We could have looked better on offense, but Cobb showed their is hope and that will come in time. Sunday it might be Shaq. It might be KJ. It might be Guyn.
 
ervins84 said:
They can also be rebounded for a put back. They also result in fewer transition opportunities than live ball turnovers.

And if we're getting right down to it, take a look at the expectation.

Hypothetically I think we would all agree if a guys career 3pt% is 20% we don't want him shooting 3's.

Still on average that shot is worth .6 of a point.

During the Mick era we've scored between 1.01 and 1.09 pts per possession over the course of a season.

Getting half of that production on a possession vs ZERO makes a huge difference.
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I think you are missing the point, but still...a bad shot is not worth .6 of a point. If you are going to use your hypothetical numbers, the 20% would also include good shots. If you strip out the good shots that number goes waayyy down. Add in that when you take a bad shot you reduce the chances of taking a good shot, or getting fouled. It's called a bad shot for a reason.
 
L-T said:
Clark reminds me of another player who was an incredible bust in our program. He has no offensive game. He looks slow. He looks timid. I hate it when we recruit these type of players. That damn "bust" of a player coincidently was from North carolina also. His name was Eric Hicks. He even ended up quitting the team for a brief period as a freshman and only averaged 2 points per game. Everyone was highly disappointed with him too. Looks like we've probably got another one of those types of players with Clark.
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Is this for real?
 
L-T said:
Clark reminds me of another player who was an incredible bust in our program. He has no offensive game. He looks slow. He looks timid. I hate it when we recruit these type of players. That damn "bust" of a player coincidently was from North carolina also. His name was Eric Hicks. He even ended up quitting the team for a brief period as a freshman and only averaged 2 points per game. Everyone was highly disappointed with him too. Looks like we've probably got another one of those types of players with Clark.
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You're caling Eric Hicks a bust???? First team All-Big East Eric Hicks? :confused:

Okay after reading it again I see what you did there... Haha sorry
 
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My lineup

Troy. Cobb. Sanders. Clark. Ellis.

Off bench. Kj. Moorman. Shaq. Moore.

Mick has to get his rotations at 9 or less. Basketball is a game built around flow.
 

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