I'm not sure I would have put those two players together either. I think there are maybe more similarities to SK in Troy Caupain of the 2013 class. He (Caupain) seems like someone that will find ways to score.
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I'm not sure I would have put those two players together either. I think there are maybe more similarities to SK in Troy Caupain of the 2013 class. He (Caupain) seems like someone that will find ways to score.
TheLivingLegend
Well-known member
The fact that Sanders gets off the bench before Jerry is completely absurd..
Sanders frankly hasnt brought anything.... He gets a few rebounds. But offensively he cant beat anyone off the dribble and frankly hes not that good of a shooter.
Sanders frankly hasnt brought anything.... He gets a few rebounds. But offensively he cant beat anyone off the dribble and frankly hes not that good of a shooter.
JDIII has been good and deserves playing time but that is flatly wrong.
Yesterday he(Sanders) was 3/5, 8 points, 3 boards, an assist and a steal. All in 13 minutes.
I'll grant he's less flashy than the guards, but "hasn't brought anything"...?
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UCalum08
Well-known member
I totally agree with you here Nomadic. I really like JDIII on offense he knows how to get in the lane which creates. I would be taking an educated guess and say it is his defense that has kept him off the court because he looks lost and def. doesn't put pressure on the ball and frankly looks quite tentative.
#BearcatNation
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I'm just as excited as the next person about this season, but on a more negative note, does anyone know what the hell JJ's role has been so far? Why on earth does Cronin constantly have him hanging outside the 3 point line looking to spot up or drive? I understand him being out there to set a play or make some solid passes, but offensively he's been pretty wild these first couple games. It's like Cronin's trying to play him as more of a wing forward, rather than a post man. Thought it was kind of strange. Maybe JJ has just gotten real excited with the ball, but when we start playing BE teams, the last thing I want to see him do is an out-of-control drive to the hoop or try and drain one from downtown.
Patrick Bateman
Well-known member
Cronin said in an interview I think last week that in our new offense there is technically only 1 center. He is moving JJ to the wing and having him basically be a guard on offense. JJ has played very sloppily and has made many unforced to's so far. He did miss the exhibition games but that is no excuse for the bad choices on offense.
He is a wing in this offense. The only guys you'll see down low are Mbodj, Nyarsuk, and Gaines if he plays. JJ's problem is that he's a home run hitter according to Mick. He basically said they need to get him to just run the offense instead of trying to make tough, highlight passes. He definitely has the ability to create from the outside. In the opener his drive, spin, and pass to one of the bigs for a dunk was a thing of beauty. I love his intensity without the ball. They just need to get him to slow down with the ball in his hands. Missing both exhibition games probably made things look worse than they really are. I think he's going to take a step in the right direction this year. He almost single handily kept us in the 1st half of the OSU game last year. I think he just might reach his goal of averaging a double/double.
JasonS
Football Moderator
The Bearcats are playing a 4 out 1 in offense this year and for the years to come. This is how Mick likes to play and this is how Mick is recruiting. Unlike Nova, who tended to play a 4 GUARD lineup, Mick is recruiting bigs who can handle the ball and play on the perimeter. By doing this, it opens up the driving lanes on offense and still will allow the Bearcats to match up on defense.
TheLivingLegend
Well-known member
I have never been wrong about the game of basketball...
8 points in garbage time vs a garbage team and your impressed? Jerry has done that in tons of games.
Look maybe sanders will turn into a solid player. But frankly right now, Jerry is a better player who adds more to the team.
Honestly neither should really see much play time come big games. But Sanders in the game before Jerry is absurd.
And by the way Jerry played 10 minutes had 9 points 3 assists a steal and 2 rebounds....
Case closed. Yawn. Bring your A game next time.
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BearcatMick
Well-known member
That was a living legend smackdown!
Given that the game was decided well before either came out, JDIII 9 points in garbage team vs a garbage team. What's your point? He also turned the ball over more against said garbage team.
Indeed, against similar competition. Which is why he's not head and shoulders above Sanders and why I don't get your comment.
If that were the case, he would have seen significant floor time in the NCAA tourny last year. He didn't Sanders did. Sorry, I just don't see your argument. He can make a few things happen, he also wrecklessly dribbles into opponents for no reason. He can't dribble to the left, no matter how fast you are, that's poor ball handling. He's good, he's about on par with the other n00bs.
Negated by the three TO's he had.
You're trading a point for a rebound. Again, what's the diff? Seem pretty mediocre on both ends, if you ask me. Why don't we compare them to the starting guards? When one of the underclassmen play as well as Parker, they can start feeling entitled. No, scratch that, when they play as well as Lance Stephenson they can feel entitled. Remove the log from your own eye, brother troll.
Last year and this year JD3 has had a 2:1 (assist/steal to turnover) ratio...while Sanders is and was at 1:1. 2:1 is about what Parker and SK play at. Cash and Guyn play around 3:1. JD3 scored about twice as many points per minute as Sanders last year and probably this year as well.
I don't see the turnover machine in JD3...but one could argue that Sanders is because 1:1 is about the worst on the team. If Sanders were more aggressive he MIGHT be more valuable than JD3 but he isn't more aggressive...he's passive and tentative. last year JD had slightly more turnovers than JS in slightly less minutes but JD3 had 13 steals to Sanders 1. Sanders was horrible at steals last year probably because of his lack of aggression.
My guess is Davis either has severe defensive issues or this is attitude related. Whatever the issue is it's hard to notice and it's not something that shows up in stats.
Also Davis was doing a GREAT job of using his left hand in that last game...all the while looking up the court. He actually seemed to favor his left hand a little. He looks better than Guyn to me with the ball in his hands...and he's a better shooter than Sanders.
I don't see the turnover machine in JD3...but one could argue that Sanders is because 1:1 is about the worst on the team. If Sanders were more aggressive he MIGHT be more valuable than JD3 but he isn't more aggressive...he's passive and tentative. last year JD had slightly more turnovers than JS in slightly less minutes but JD3 had 13 steals to Sanders 1. Sanders was horrible at steals last year probably because of his lack of aggression.
My guess is Davis either has severe defensive issues or this is attitude related. Whatever the issue is it's hard to notice and it's not something that shows up in stats.
Also Davis was doing a GREAT job of using his left hand in that last game...all the while looking up the court. He actually seemed to favor his left hand a little. He looks better than Guyn to me with the ball in his hands...and he's a better shooter than Sanders.
Here is my theory on Davis vs Sanders right now.
Cronin has developed a perceptoin in practice that Sanders is better for one reason or another or perhaps many reasons. But in the game Davis is playing better and Cronin's previous perception is blocking him from noticing.
You see this a lot with QB's in football. The coach sees one guy has a lot more talent and wins the starting job in practice but when it comes to gametime they clam up. Then the back up comes in and plays better because they either have more confidence or can pick up the speed of the game better.
Cronin has developed a perceptoin in practice that Sanders is better for one reason or another or perhaps many reasons. But in the game Davis is playing better and Cronin's previous perception is blocking him from noticing.
You see this a lot with QB's in football. The coach sees one guy has a lot more talent and wins the starting job in practice but when it comes to gametime they clam up. Then the back up comes in and plays better because they either have more confidence or can pick up the speed of the game better.
I think Sanders is doing everything he can NOT to screw up (so he looks good to coach)...and in doing so doesn't take some of the necessary chances that you have to take in games. Even on D he doesn't want to get beat so he doesn't go for the ball.
At some point there comes a time when focusing solely on NOT screwing up becomes a detriment. Sanders was and is the prime example to me. Davis right now is much more valuable IMO until Sanders comes out of his shell.
At some point there comes a time when focusing solely on NOT screwing up becomes a detriment. Sanders was and is the prime example to me. Davis right now is much more valuable IMO until Sanders comes out of his shell.
JasonS
Football Moderator
I'll trust Cronin knows what he is doing and I'll hold out on forming a hard and fast opinion until I see more games this year.
I still think you guys are comparing apples to oranges. You have Sanders coming in at the 3 and JDIII coming in at the 2. Minutes could simply be a matter of rotation and it may not even be a "Who gets in the game first, JDIII or Sanders?" type of question.
I still think you guys are comparing apples to oranges. You have Sanders coming in at the 3 and JDIII coming in at the 2. Minutes could simply be a matter of rotation and it may not even be a "Who gets in the game first, JDIII or Sanders?" type of question.
You can't be serious...
Sanders played against real competition last year, from last February through March, Davis was a ghost.
He turned it over three times in ten minutes, against MVSU.
^That's the end of this debate^
By no measure, will that ever be good.
Obviously, he's not that good of a ball handler, let alone "great". More over, 2 of his TO's were going to the left. Every time he took the ball, he went kamikazi into the teeth of the defense, like a headless chicken and it came out 50/50. Yes, he had 3 assists, he also had 3 TO's. What good does it do you to take a step forward and a step backward? You're right back where you started. This is MVSU we're talking about. What happens when we play a real NCAA team?
I think he has potential but good lord, statistically, objectively, this kid has done nothing to distinguish himself from Sanders.
Add that to the fact they play different positions, it begs the question, wtf are people on about?
Sanders played against real competition last year, from last February through March, Davis was a ghost.
He turned it over three times in ten minutes, against MVSU.
^That's the end of this debate^
By no measure, will that ever be good.
Obviously, he's not that good of a ball handler, let alone "great". More over, 2 of his TO's were going to the left. Every time he took the ball, he went kamikazi into the teeth of the defense, like a headless chicken and it came out 50/50. Yes, he had 3 assists, he also had 3 TO's. What good does it do you to take a step forward and a step backward? You're right back where you started. This is MVSU we're talking about. What happens when we play a real NCAA team?
I think he has potential but good lord, statistically, objectively, this kid has done nothing to distinguish himself from Sanders.
Add that to the fact they play different positions, it begs the question, wtf are people on about?
JasonS
Football Moderator
You're right. What was I thinking? Wait, why aren't you coaching the team again?
I'll place my trust in Mick Cronin on this one.
So the "end of this debate" comes down to how many TO's Davis had in his last game and not what happens overall?? Geesh. I understand Davis will turn the ball over slightly more than Sanders but Davis gets a lot more steals and scores the ball twice as much.
As I mentioned last year Davis had a 2:1 assist/steal to turnover ratio and Sanders had a 1:1. Sanders got some garbage time too. This year so far it's the same ratio. Even in garbage time when you are playing against an inferior opponent it doesn't mean they have their garbage players in...often times they don't...and not all of JD3's minutes came in garbage time...even if most did.
I understand and admit that Sanders saw more minutes against better comp...but I don't necessarily see this as apples and oranges...maybe tangerines and oranges. I don't think JD is a GREAT ball handler but neither is Guyn or Sanders. They might make less mistakes but they also score less points and Sanders doesn't steal the ball nearly as often. If Davis was able to score twice as many points and was plus 1 on Sanders in terms of assists/steals to turnover margin while playing against the same players would you agree Davis is the better option (given he's not a liability on D)?
I think it's time to find out. I am not here to rip on Sanders...I hope he comes out of his shell and asserts himself...it will only help us as a team. If he does this I would be happy to say Sanders is the better option. Right now I just don't see it. Obviously we have to trust Cronin and his instincts and right now they are saying Sanders.
You're right. What was I thinking? Wait, why aren't you coaching the team again?
I'll place my trust in Mick Cronin on this one.
When did I doubt Cronin?
I haven't questioned his line ups, I was replying to someone who did.
If you're going to object, why not to the person who actually disagrees with Cronin?
I don't necessarily disagree with Cronin as much as I am wondering what the issue is with Davis. I can't find it in the stats...so I have to assume it's something else.
From a statistical standpoint JD3 has been better. As I mentioned it may be a defensive or attitude issue. I am not buying the apples and oranges argument...maybe tangerines and oranges. JD may have had a lot of garbage time but that doesn't mean the other team had their 2nd team in or that Sanders didn't have garbage time as well. I will admit Sanders saw more time against better comp...how much better is the question really? Enough to skew the stats the way they looked? I don't think so but it's possible.
I don't want to argue...I like hypotheiticals and theorizing. It's all fun!