Nevada

[jacobkdoyle]

So do you want to start a petition to fire him, I'm not sure what youre trying to say?

Or should we just keep complaining about our little tourney success and not get over it?

You give him a free pass. I don't think he deserves one after this long. At what point does he stop living off of what he inherited 12 years ago?

Be honest, if someone told you the day he was hired that we'd have 1 2nd weekend game in the first 12 years of him coaching, and none in years 7-12, you'd be a tad disappointed, no?

I'm simply defining expectations bc I don't trust the coach to. And no one holds him accountable within the program. He can't continue to say it doesn't matter if we make a Sweet 16, Elite 8, or Final 4 if we don't win it all. That's bullsh*t. If matter to everyone BUT him. And he's just saying that when he's being a sore loser. I mean, he openly admitted that it helps recruiting to make a run in the tournament. SO HOW CAN HE SAY IT DOESN'T MATTER? And we wonder why some kid would rather go to Florida Gulf Coast over UC. We have to be so easy to negatively recruit against.

Next 3 years: Win another AAC Title and get to a Sweet 16. That's the absolute minimum for me. (This would be open to reevaluation should we make 3 Sweet 16s without a conference title, or some version of that. But we can cross that part of it if we come to it. I'm nothing if not fair )

 

[waterhead]

First off Jon, I would really like to commend you on your loyalty to the program and to Mick. I have to assume, based on your undying allegiance to him, that you have a personal connection to the Cronnin family....and loyal friends are worth their weight in gold. That said, I believe your heart is getting in the way of your head.
There's no doubting that the state of the program is better than what it was when Cronnin took over. However, their are many fans on and off this site that are beginning to believe that we have peaked under his leadership (me included). The notion that the program is doomed to failure should Mick depart is really pretty sad. Does the thought of starting over create some axiety??? Sure it does. I've played enough sports and worked in the corporate world for 22 years now and I've come to one conclusion.....fear of failure is paralyzing. It prevents creativity and breeds apathy. It generates an attitude that the situation, despite the results, are good enough the way they are. Fear destroys the possibility of a better future.
At some point you just have to roll the dice and hope we land a Mack, Miller, Huggins, Smart. Believe me.....they're out there and would kill for the opportunity to continue this remarkable saga that is UC basketball. The time ,for me is now!

This is a very good post! The first thing I would like to see happen is seeing some pressure applied by the brass or major donors to make sure Cronin is addressing his weak points. We have a coach right now that could get the job done with some changes in philosophy.

If Cronin shows he is either incapable or unwilling to adjust...then we can talk about what the next move would be...but I think we should exhaust the options we have with this coach.

As an institution we have made some pretty good hires over the years in BB and FB. Just to point out...Eggs has done the same thing in BB almost every time they hire. If we were to try to hire someone new I would expect to have a good result more times than not based on history. We do not have to go down with the ship if we make a bad hire...we can always try again.

We may be a stepping stone program (for now) until we get in a power conference but there are coaches out there that will stick with a program provided they can get paid somewhere around market value and they can achieve success within the program they are at. Cronin is getting paid pretty close to market value now.

Let's give this coach an opportunity to see if he can make some adjustments. If his ego is too big to make a change...I would say let's test the market and let the chips fall where they may. I personally would feel better if I saw an administration and donor base that was willing to risk going backwards in an attempt to reach the pinnacle than I would with keeping with a status quo that was capped with what we can accomplish in the dance.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

I am not starting the fire coach petition but I am sure someone will. However, many fans think tourney success we should have been complaining about BEFORE this year. It was becoming a "thing" for national media outlets BEFORE this year. There is really only one way to stop the complaining about a deep tourney run...and I'm not sure it's going to stop after just one run. A massive collapse is only going to fuel this fire.

So the answer for me is YES...I will be complaining about deep tourney runs until it happens...and possibly even until we can repeat it. I am not sure why that would be asking too much. We can point to conference affiliation all we want but it's just not an excuse for me.

We can celebrate other accomplishments along the way...there are some things to be proud of. Like it or not March Madness is a huge factor in every basketball season for a good % of fans. We can talk about conference championships and getting good quality kids to graduate etc...but deep tourney runs can only be measure in one way.

Cronin is a very good coach and he's just a few adjustments away from being one of the great coaches. Obviously most of that is on the offensive side of the ball and finding players who can produce when the situation calls for it.

He needs to put the players in the situation to have success. When Cumberland shoots a long 2 in crunch time with time left on the shot clock, that's on the coach. Bc Cumberland and others do it year after year and clearly no one has ever told them not to do that. Broome can have all the talent in the world, but when the entire season is spent ripping him down to the studs and screwing with his head, without the time being taken to ever build him back up...and you are screaming and cussing at him not to shoot in the 2nd half, I'm not sure what people really expect him to do. He was brought here to score, and 2 years in his coach doesn't trust him enough to even take a shot against a Mountain West team. And we want to blame the player for the lack of development there? No. That's on Big Game Mick too. That moment at the end for Broome was a long time coming. It was a culmination of everything Cronin did wrong in handling him all year.

If Jay Wright was teleported in and switched spots with Cronin at the 65-43 point, am I to believe we only score 8 the rest of the way in 11+ minutes? And 2 in the final 6 minutes?

 

[sedziobs]

Jon Rycek and Garrad, I'm generally with you guys. I feel the need to point out that the "blame Mick" groupthink here does not in any way make their opinions more correct than anyone else's. I'm not about to spend my time throwing mud back and forth regarding subjective opinions though. So many opinions are being presented as if they are facts, and logical fallacies are rampant. It's not possible to have a productive discussion in this kind of environment.

 

[cincyguy13]

Jon Rycek and Garrad, I'm generally with you guys. I feel the need to point out that the "blame Mick" groupthink here does not in any way make their opinions more correct than anyone else's. I'm not about to spend my time throwing mud back and forth regarding subjective opinions though. So many opinions are being presented as if they are facts, and logical fallacies are rampant. It's not possible to have a productive discussion in this kind of environment.

I think the discussion is productive. Both sides are right to some extent. The truth is he is a pretty good coach but he needs to do better in the tournament. We can all agree on the

 

[Garybearcat]

Next 3 years: Win another AAC Title and get to a Sweet 16. That's the absolute minimum for me. (This would be open to reevaluation should we make 3 Sweet 16s without a conference title, or some version of that. But we can cross that part of it if we come to it. I'm nothing if not fair )[/QUOTE]

So what are you going to do if he doesn’t meet your requirements, fire him? I think not you are not the athletic director, I’m pretty sure of that fact. So what are you going to do stop supporting the team because the Mr. Doyle standards of excellence has not been achieved. Time to grow up and stop your whining and either crap or get off the pot. I’m not happy with the team losing early n tourney, but only a child would make silly demands each year. They could lose 20 games next year I would be extremely disappointed, but it wouldn’t change my support for the Bearcats.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

So what are you going to do if he doesn’t meet your requirements, fire him? I think not you are not the athletic director, I’m pretty sure of that fact. So what are you going to do stop supporting the team because the Mr. Doyle standards of excellence has not been achieved. Time to grow up and stop your whining and either crap or get off the pot. I’m not happy with the team losing early n tourney, but only a child would make silly demands each year. They could lose 20 games next year I would be extremely disappointed, but it wouldn’t change my support for the Bearcats.

Deflect the topic and make it about something else. All you people do.

Thank you for letting me know that I'm not the athletic director. I was under the impression that I could fire Cronin myself any time I wished.
OR this is a UC board and the place I go to share my opinions on UC. And my opinion is that if we don't have success in the NCAA Tournament by the time Cronin's contract is up in 3 years, I'm going to stop supporting the program until he is gone. It doesn't matter to me if that's important to you or anyone. That's just where I am personally with things. At least I share my opinions instead of just showing up here to post about other people.

P.S. Didn't you have a big dramatic exit from the site a while back? Didn't take? What's up with that?

 

[Zdiddy513]

Next 3 years: Win another AAC Title and get to a Sweet 16. That's the absolute minimum for me. (This would be open to reevaluation should we make 3 Sweet 16s without a conference title, or some version of that. But we can cross that part of it if we come to it. I'm nothing if not fair )

So what are you going to do if he doesn’t meet your requirements, fire him? I think not you are not the athletic director, I’m pretty sure of that fact. So what are you going to do stop supporting the team because the Mr. Doyle standards of excellence has not been achieved. Time to grow up and stop your whining and either crap or get off the pot. I’m not happy with the team losing early n tourney, but only a child would make silly demands each year. They could lose 20 games next year I would be extremely disappointed, but it wouldn’t change my support for the Bearcats.[/QUOTE]

I think everyone here will support the Bearcats regardless. Coaches, players and presidents come and go but the one thing that will always remain is our alma mater/cities team. Just because some of us disagree with the leaders at a point in time doesn't mean we are any less of a fan than those that just accept whatever they are given.

 

[All we do is Guyn]

If we were to try to hire someone new I would expect to have a good result more times than not based on history. We do not have to go down with the ship if we make a bad hire...we can always try again.

In my opinion this is a critical point that the "fire Mick" people probably agree with, and most others don't. I think it's exponentially more likely that we'll get worse if we fire Mick. You don't even have to look further than our conference to see teams going to shit because of coaching changes. X is the exception, not the rule.

If we hit our ceiling this season by winning 30+ games, winning the conference, winning the conference championship, and getting a realistic shot in the tournament... I'm more than okay with that ceiling. There's plenty worse teams and coaches that have made deep tournament runs, we'll have ours too.

Last point in this Friday afternoon procrastination: some of you need to find a more enjoyable hobby. If losing a basketball game that you had no part in sends you in a 2 week emotional spiral, maybe try crochet.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

In my opinion this is a critical point that the "fire Mick" people probably agree with, and most others don't. I think it's exponentially more likely that we'll get worse if we fire Mick.You don't even have to look further than our conference to see teams going to shit because of coaching changes. X is the exception, not the rule.

If we hit our ceiling this season by winning 30+ games, winning the conference, winning the conference championship, and getting a realistic shot in the tournament... I'm more than okay with that ceiling. There's plenty worse teams and coaches that have made deep tournament runs, we'll have ours too.

Last point in this Friday afternoon procrastination: some of you need to find a more enjoyable hobby. If losing a basketball game that you had no part in sends you in a 2 week emotional spiral, maybe try crochet.

This is why I was asking everyone at what point they'd risk going in that direction. Impossible to get an answer from people though. If you dare mention the name Mick Cronin in a way they don't approve of, they will become triggered and it ends any kind of real conversation.

 

[waterhead]

This is why I was asking everyone at what point they'd risk going in that direction. Impossible to get an answer from people though. If you dare mention the name Mick Cronin in a way they don't approve of, they will become triggered and it ends any kind of real conversation.

2 Million is a lot to offer. Not saying I think it's time YET...but we could reel in some decent prospects at even 1M per year.

My hope is that Cronin is willing to change a bit...we still have the ultimate scenario of a good coach who bleeds red and black. But I don't think we can just let a coach get complacent. Our coach would not let any player get complacent...so we should expect the same from the coach.

I can get behind Cronin supporters for all sorts of reasons...but unwillingness to change weaknesses is where I draw the line.

 

[Nayers]

This is why I was asking everyone at what point they'd risk going in that direction. Impossible to get an answer from people though. If you dare mention the name Mick Cronin in a way they don't approve of, they will become triggered and it ends any kind of real conversation.

I've disagreed with you plenty on stuff but I don't understand all the pushback you are seeing on this issue. I've noticed rycek would not answer my question as to what minimum success he'd be happy with.

Seidzobs, accusing anyone who is not satisfied with micks tourney success as "fire mick" crowd is ignorant. Both jake and I think he should prove something on this current contract. That's not exactly fire mick territory. And accusing that said crowd as group thinkers is laughable. The only uniform group think I see is the keep mick forever crowd.

If we can't question his coaching after that tourney, one of 11 not making second weekend, why not sign him up for a lifetime contract-all guaranteed money-with a no termination ever clause?

 

[sedziobs]

Seidzobs, accusing anyone who is not satisfied with micks tourney success as "fire mick" crowd is ignorant.

I have not used the word "fired", and I said nothing about Mick's tourney success. You have invented a strawman argument, one of the many logical fallacies in this thread.

Garrad and Jon's opinions were met with "You are living in fantasy land" and "You are too emotional to talk to about this stuff" from one moderator, among many other belligerent remarks. A poster accused Jon of having "a personal connection to the Cronin family." That accusation was met with "This is a very good post!" from another moderator. Yet there are posts, yours included, worried about the pushback that Jake is getting. I consider that to be groupthink.

 

[waterhead]

I have not used the word "fired", and I said nothing about Mick's tourney success. You have invented a strawman argument, one of the many logical fallacies in this thread.

Garrad and Jon's opinions were met with "You are living in fantasy land" and "You are too emotional to talk to about this stuff" from one moderator, among many other belligerent remarks. A poster accused Jon of having "a personal connection to the Cronin family." That accusation was met with "This is a very good post!" from another moderator. Yet there are posts, yours included, worried about the pushback that Jake is getting. I consider that to be groupthink.

I thought maybe you were being somewhat rational until this point. The post you are referring to had a lot of different points in it...you seem to be focused on one of the points made and that my response was in regards to the one you mention. By directly tying my response to a single sentence in the post. It wasn't. SMH!!

The post in question COMMENDED Jon on being a loyal fan. That the state of the program is in BETTER shape than when Cronin took over. Shame on you for doing the very thing you ask other posters not to.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

I thought maybe you were being somewhat rational until this point. The post you are referring to had a lot of different points in it...you seem to be focused on one of the points made and that my response was in regards to the one you mention. By directly tying my to response to a single sentence in the post. SMH!!

The post in question COMMENDED Jon on being a loyal fan. That the state of the program is in BETTER shape than when Cronin took over. Shame on you for doing the very thing you ask other posters not to.

Yeah he also completely neglected the 99% of my post before I said anything about fantasy land. Incredibly misleading. And pretty worthless tbh.

 

[waterhead]

Yeah he also completely neglected the 99% of my post before I said anything about fantasy land. Incredibly misleading. And pretty worthless tbh.

It's hard to respond to a single post (with many points in it) without dealing with them individually. To take specific points and apply them to the whole post is just asking for trouble most of the time.

 

[waterhead]

I thought maybe you were being somewhat rational until this point. The post you are referring to had a lot of different points in it...you seem to be focused on one of the points made and that my response was in regards to the one you mention. By directly tying my response to a single sentence in the post. It wasn't. SMH!!

The post in question COMMENDED Jon on being a loyal fan. That the state of the program is in BETTER shape than when Cronin took over. Shame on you for doing the very thing you ask other posters not to.

In fact...go back and look at my post. There isn't a SINGLE comment in regards to the "family connections" thing. Nor even a single reason to believe my response had ANYTHING to do with that PARTICULAR comment. If you try to tie my response to that single issue...you are reaching a LONG LONG way!! But that is where you went with it so here we are.

 

[sedziobs]

I think there is "blame Mick" groupthink in this thread. I gave a few examples to support my contention, same as everyone else has been doing. What do you want me to do, publish a report analyzing every single sentence that has been posted?

"First off Jon, I would really like to commend you on your loyalty to the program and to Mick. I have to assume, based on your undying allegiance to him, that you have a personal connection to the Cronnin family....and loyal friends are worth their weight in gold."
I think it's a real stretch to interpret this as anything other than a belligerent backhanded compliment. To view it as a sincere commendation is absurd in my view. I'm aware that other points were made, but absolutely no pushback to the quoted section was posted. I think that's problematic, so shame on me for pointing that out I guess.

I did not neglect 99% of your posts, Jacob. I chose to post two sentences, but I don't consider them misleading. I think you have been unnecessarily attacking Garrad and Jon with all of your posts directed at them in this thread. The two I quoted are not out of character.

All I'm asking for is that posters acknowledge that this is all subjective, and differing opinions are valid. We don't have to draw a line in the sand. Aggressiveness isn't helpful. I'm probably being too aggressive myself in pointing it out.

 

[waterhead]

I think there is "blame Mick" groupthink in this thread. I gave a few examples to support my contention, same as everyone else has been doing. What do you want me to do, publish a report analyzing every single sentence that has been posted?

"First off Jon, I would really like to commend you on your loyalty to the program and to Mick. I have to assume, based on your undying allegiance to him, that you have a personal connection to the Cronnin family....and loyal friends are worth their weight in gold."
I think it's a real stretch to interpret this as anything other than a belligerent backhanded compliment. To view it as a sincere commendation is absurd in my view. I'm aware that other points were made, but absolutely no pushback to the quoted section was posted. I think that's problematic, so shame on me for pointing that out I guess.

I did not neglect 99% of your posts, Jacob. I chose to post two sentences, but I don't consider them misleading. I think you have been unnecessarily attacking Garrad and Jon with all of your posts directed at them in this thread. The two I quoted are not out of character.

All I'm asking for is that posters acknowledge that this is all subjective, and differing opinions are valid. We don't have to draw a line in the sand. Aggressiveness isn't helpful. I'm probably being too aggressive myself in pointing it out.

I will make sure in future posts that you address ALL comments in the post you are addressing. It's only fair. If you don't address ALL of them I will assume you are complicit with ANY statement being made...as you have of mine.

 

[sedziobs]

I will make sure in future posts that you address ALL comments in the post you are addressing. It's only fair. If you don't address all of them I will assume you are complicit with any statement being made.

I pointed it out as part of a pattern of unchecked aggression. A single sentence, post, or poster would not be an issue. There were 9 consecutive posts by 4 different posters showing the same sentiment, with quite a few aggressive comments mixed in. So I stepped in to say something. Your specific comment is a tree, not the forest.