Bearcat_NTS
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How cute. Big 12 will not expand, the leadership of the league isn't exactly proactive.
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How cute. Big 12 will not expand, the leadership of the league isn't exactly proactive.
JumpinJack5
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Who's your source? Have you talked to the B12 presidents, ADs, or the Commish? Just because they haven't done it before doesn't mean they can't or won't do it. By the same token, you could be right. Nobody knows what will happen, even though they might act as if they know it all.
Cataclysmo
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I don't normally respond to you (because no one believes you), but i'' bite this time, where did you get the 25 million number? I remember Greg Swaim used to talk about the Big 12 not expanding if they don't increase value, is he your source?
So why argue with him...
JumpinJack5
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Just felt like it today. It isn't just Ralph who thinks he knows it all, it is becoming a widespread problem.
Bearcat_NTS
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25 million is approximately the amount of money each Big 12 member receives from their current TV deal. The Big 12 has the highest pay out per team of any conference (mostly because they have 10 members). They will not expand if the school brought in reduces the pay out, meaning they must be worth at leas 25 million. Hope that helps.
Cataclysmo
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I would think a new market in Cincinnati, completely untapped, would be able to make up for the loss of an additional team.
Cataclysmo
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No need to worry fellas, the dude says were a near lock if the BIg 12 expands.....
JasonS
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Big Ten schools make more per year than any other conference.
Bearcat_NTS
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Not all is from the TV contract......
Bob Bowlsby, the commissioner of the Big 12, and Deloss Dodds the AD of Texas, have stated every time they have been asked about Big 12 expansion, that the Big 12 will not expand unless the school adds at least $25 million to the TV contract, this is what each of the 10 schools currently receives. Both have repeatedly stated the 10 like being at 10.
JasonS
Football Moderator
The difference is $400,000 per school (more for Big 12) from TV plus an additional $22,000,000 per school for Big Ten schools from other resources. It's not close. You can argue semantics but when the Big Ten schools look at their earnings from athletics they are looking at $48 Million, not $25.8 Million plus additional money.
Cataclysmo
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Can i see a link?
There is nothing in the playoff setup that FORCES the Big 12 to have a conference championship game, this notion is internet garbage.
Notre Dame does not have to play a conference championship game to get into the 4 team playoff, why would the Big 12?
The Big 12 at 10 members has a round robin schedule, everyone plays everyone. A 12-0 Big 12 team and a 12-0 Notre Dame team, will always get one of the 4 playoff spots.
You can make the argument that a one loss Big 12 team would have a second chance at getting a playoff spot if they had a CCG (Alabama this year) but is that really worth splitting the same amount of revenue 12 ways instead of 10?
Expected Big 12 revenue per year is $330 million, $240 million from the TV contract, $90 million from the playoff/Champions Bowl system. At 10 schools that is $33 million per. At 12 schools that is $27.5 million per. Do people really believe that each of the 10 schools is going to give up $5.5 million per year to go to 12 schools to have a CCG?
Bearcat_NTS
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Spot on as always Ralph. Your knoweldge of realignment is up to par with mine.
JasonS
Football Moderator
Once again you miss the point. No one is saying that they will add teams and give up money. That's stupid. Look at the college landscape. What is happening? Conference TV networks. The Big Ten has one. The SEC is looking into it. The ACC is looking into it. The Pac 12 is looking into it. When a conference has it's own TV network, money comes from subscribers. You have more subscribers by having more people that care in major television markets. The next step for the Big 12 is a conference television channel. When that happens, a conference Championship game could be a big part to that. Look at the places the Big 12 reaches: Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri (yes the Tigers are gone but still Big 12 fans there), Iowa, West Virginia. That's about it. I may have missed one or two but you get the point. Not a lot of big TV markets there outside of Texas. Therefore, the Big 12, if they follow this model (which is successful), would need to expand and expand to other available markets. Cincinnati is somewhere around 30 in the country in market size and would be a good fit for expansion. THAT is why Cincinnati is possibly a Big 12 target. Things have to happen but if the Big 12 sees an opportunity to start a network, they will look to expand and when they do, they will add a Championship game.
If the Big 12 looks at the TV model and decides that they don't want to go that route, they won't expand. To sit there and say that there is no way they will expand because schools would get less money is both ludicrous and illogical. Any expansion that would happen would give the Big 12 schools more money. If it doesn't, they won't expand. When you look at the $48 Million each school in the Big Ten is getting BEFORE any bowl/Tourney payouts, it's hard to think that other conferences aren't going to follow that model.
joshuag12000
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It's not as clear cut as a team has to be worth $25 million. There's so many other factors that will come into play. For one the tv contracts tend to adjust based on number of teams, then you have to factor in the additional revenue of the CCG. You also have to figure your conference's perception as all of college football is driven by opinion of the polls and a CCG solidifies the conference champion as a battle tested team. What happens in the polls when the Big 12 champion is up for the last spot in the four team playoff and has a similar record to another team that goes on to win its conference's championship game while they sit at home with the season already concluded. We see teams get jumped all the time for being idle. A conference doesn't want that happening in the last week. Money is playing the largest role in conference realignment and the Big 12 has seemed relectant to add anybody or at least selective about it, but you seem to always talk in absolutes which is why most people seem to ignore you now. But in reality everyone on here can spout off different opinions or possibilities that they can see happening, yet none of us know with absolute certainty that it will happen until it actually does.
Robert
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As others have said, the Big 12 will expand IF they decide to do a television network. I believe that they will, but obviously that's just speculation. If they do start a television network and decide to expand, I believe their top two targets will be BYU and Cincinnati.
Cincinnati is a big TV market that gives the Big 12 a school in the heart of Big Ten country, and BYU has a huge following and locks up another big TV market, Salt Lake City. No one from the other 4 power conferences will be available to the Big 12, so they are left to pick from the smaller conferences and independents. I believe they would be wise to start a television network ASAP before they get left in the dust.
I don't see any other logical choices aside from BYU and UC if they expand. UConn is way more out of whack geographically than WVU or UC. Houston and SMU make no sense because the Big 12 already has 4 schools in the state of Texas. Boise State is weak academically and doesn't offer much in the way of a TV market.
Cincinnati is a big TV market that gives the Big 12 a school in the heart of Big Ten country, and BYU has a huge following and locks up another big TV market, Salt Lake City. No one from the other 4 power conferences will be available to the Big 12, so they are left to pick from the smaller conferences and independents. I believe they would be wise to start a television network ASAP before they get left in the dust.
I don't see any other logical choices aside from BYU and UC if they expand. UConn is way more out of whack geographically than WVU or UC. Houston and SMU make no sense because the Big 12 already has 4 schools in the state of Texas. Boise State is weak academically and doesn't offer much in the way of a TV market.