O$U

[M64W]

SOS

SOS can stand for several things---save our souls and/or same old s__t. It only took about 5 minutes of action to see how "god awful" our shooting was.
Please tell me how in the world these players can play basketball for years, 12 months a year, 24/7, and can't shoot a lick! They can run, they can jump, they can slash, they can get deflections, they can rebound, they can intimidate, but when it comes to shooting the rock (that's the name of the game), they stink! You can teach and coach defense, but you can't teach shooting, so when they are recruiting I suggest they find people who can score. SOS!!

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I doubt any coach would sit their superstar after getting one foul for 8 minutes in 1H

I think you may be wrong. Jarron's picks up more offensive fouls then he does on the defensive end. With him needing the ball in his hands for us to be effective offensively we can not having him pushing people in the back away from the ball or trying to trip players while screening. Here is a thought if you want to stay on the floor guard and stay away from cheap stupid fouls. Execute the game plan.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

He conveniently left out the part where Mick said his team was outplayed and he was out coached. The Cats where 5-21 on lay ups.

And we were told by Mick last year that Eli is an elite layup maker, UC's 6'11" center got blocked by the rim and has never been strong with the ball or able to finish, same w/ Scott so far, this is not a surprise.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

You guys enjoy your day I think this one has been beat to death. I'll be back after next game hopefully it will be a better outcome.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

I think you may be wrong. Jarron's picks up more offensive fouls then he does on the defensive end. With him needing the ball in his hands for us to be effective offensively we can not having him pushing people in the back away from the ball or trying to trip players while screening. Here is a thought if you want to stay on the floor guard and stay away from cheap stupid fouls. Execute the game plan.

How many offensive fouls did Jarron get last night? How many defensive? What was the game plan?

 

[tonka]

Recruits I have been excited about: Cumberland, Williams and Broome
Recruits that made me a intrigued: Logan and Hardnett
Recruits that gave me zero excitement: Moore, Jenifer, Brooks, Nsesome, Scott, Fredericks, Diarra, Prince

The reason for the lack of excitement was because none of those guys had other big offers or seemed like they were game changers. That's a lot of guys for a team that should be doing better. Forever, I have said I dont think UC can do better than Mick and I have been a supporter of his but watching this team last night made me really disappointed in our recruiting. I understand trying to find one diamond in the rough but this team looked awful on the offensive end. I think with that new arena and our tradition, we should expect better than what Mick is putting out there.

 

[waterhead]

You absolutely leave out the fact that you try to manage a players fouls as the game unfolds because it can decrease his effectiveness. If player A has 4 fouls in first half do you sit him? How about mid way through the second half. Do you think playing his way towards fouling out decreases his effectiveness. WH I really think you may want to rethink your position. Sitting a player to protect him from getting his third foul in the first half is a good strategy. One that most coaches in the game employ.

I am strictly talking about foul number one and addressed foul number 2 in the first response. Sitting him after 1 foul is/was ridiculous. Of course you manage 2nd, 3rd and 4th fouls. Normally I agree with sitting a player with 2 fouls in the first half especially if they are prone to fouling out or getting to 4 a lot. However, if it is a rare occurrence for a player I might rethink even 2 fouls in the first half and chalk it up as an exception. Cumberland is our main scoring option and we only really have 1 other. We may not even have the luxury of sitting him with 2 fouls because of how detrimental it is to our offense (which already sucks). But I would at least understand if we did.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

10/49 from 3 in 2 games at new arena. Teams are going to pack it in until show can shoot outside with any consistency moving forward.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

he won 30+ games two years running. His way is working. Legend if Mick quits tomorrow I will wager you any amount that we will not win a NCAA championship in the next 20 years regardless who they are able to bring in here. We don't cheat and we are not P-5. I agree with you his last two recruiting classes to this point have been MIA.

Do you think a new HC could obtain these numbers? Look at coaches similar to Mick in tenure and school and compare

0-3 vs OSU
3-8 vs XU
1 outright conf championship in 11 years
1 conf tournament champion in 11 years
1 Sweet Sixteen in 11 years

 

[waterhead]

I think its difficult to find a 5 man lineup for this team, but i know for sure it isn't 10 deep. Was it just me or did it feel like we subbed at every single stoppage of play last night?

The 5 man lineup is difficult to say. I can only tell you 4 of them. I was hoping we could go with 1 big at a time. I don't think Brooks or Ellie work very well with high ball screens or pick n rolls. So Scott is really the only big that can help us on offense really. But then you have to go really small and lose your rim protection and rebounding advantage.

Are we going to try to win by shutting teams down and scoring minimial points or can we put a lineup out there that can score better even if we suffer a bit on D? I think we know what Cronin is going to do.

I would love to say Johnson, Cumberland, Broome, Scott and pick your wing.

 

[cincrulz11]

The 5 man lineup is difficult to say. I can only tell you 4 of them. I was hoping we could go with 1 big at a time. I don't think Brooks or Ellie work very well with high ball screens or pick n rolls.

Ellie just has no offensive game at all. Twice we could at least throw it to brooks and he scored from 3 feet on a smaller defender. Ellie can't even give you that.


That is why he stands no chance to play anywhere close to 25 minutes like some had suggested.

 

[waterhead]

Ellie just has no offensive game at all. Twice we could at least throw it to brooks and he scored from 3 feet on a smaller defender. Ellie can't even give you that.


That is why he stands no chance to play anywhere close to 25 minutes like some had suggested.

I don't really want either one of them out there for more than 15 minutes. Brooks can probably make a couple of baby hooks per game but Ellie will probably get a couple more rebounds and add to the foul total of the other team. The baby hook isn't drawing any fouls. Ellie is a bit more mobile on D as well but who knows it's probably all a wash.

I just hate the idea of putting one of them out there with Scott all the time. Buzz kill

 

[indydoug]

I doubt any coach would sit their superstar after getting one foul for 8 minutes in 1H

Although not stars-related, KenPom has a 2-Foul Participation rate for teams measuring what % of remaining minutes a starter plays after picking up 2nd foul in 1st half. Average is about 20% (in 2017); thus, if Cumberland had picked up his 2nd with 10 minutes left, the avg. no. of minutes a Div I coach would have played him the remainder of the half is 2 minutes. UC was #297 last year at 7.6%, far below the avg. Some notables above and below UC include Syr 58.3%; Duke 41.5%; AZ 36.1%; Kan 29.9%; XU 25.4%; Mich St. 5.8%; Louisv. (Pitino) 4.6%; UVA 3.8% and Mich. 0.6%. Thought the numbers were intersting. BTW, the trend is heading downward since info became available in 2010. And I know you were talking about sitting after 1 foul and not 2. Agree with you on premise of your post (8 minutes after 1 foul).

 

[waterhead]

Although not stars-related, KenPom has a 2-Foul Participation rate for teams measuring what % of remaining minutes a starter plays after picking up 2nd foul in 1st half. Average is about 20% (in 2017); thus, if Cumberland had picked up his 2nd with 10 minutes left, the avg. no. of minutes a Div I coach would have played him the remainder of the half is 2 minutes. UC was #297 last year at 7.6%, far below the avg. Some notables above and below UC include Syr 58.3%; Duke 41.5%; AZ 36.1%; Kan 29.9%; XU 25.4%; Mich St. 5.8%; Louisv. (Pitino) 4.6%; UVA 3.8% and Mich. 0.6%. Thought the numbers were intersting. BTW, the trend is heading downward since info became available in 2010. And I know you were talking about sitting after 1 foul and not 2. Agree with you on premise of your post (8 minutes after 1 foul).

Nice find! And the idea that a stat doesn't exist for 1 foul is pretty telling. Plus Duke has plenty of players they can back up a player with. So they can likely play right through foul trouble on guards...maybe not a valuable big.

We have no answer for Cumberland making it more likely we should look at playing him even after 2 fouls as long as they aren't super early in the first half. You have to try to max his minutes and let him know he needs to watch the fouls out there and let him play. Let the chips fall. If he proves he cannot keep it in check then maybe revisit.

 

[indydoug]

Nice find! And the idea that a stat doesn't exist for 1 foul is pretty telling. Plus Duke has plenty of players they can back up a player with. So they can likely play right through foul trouble on guards...maybe not a valuable big.

We have no answer for Cumberland making it more likely we should look at playing him even after 2 fouls as long as they aren't super early in the first half. You have to try to max his minutes and let him know he needs to watch the fouls out there and let him play. Let the chips fall. If he proves he cannot keep it in check then maybe revisit.

Agree fully, although the lack of 1 foul data might suggest there would be too many data points to even try to figure out.

 

[BearcatsNE]

This was the bonehead move! Sitting with 1 foul. We can talk all day about the philosophy to sit a player with 2 fouls for the rest of the half. That is done all the time. As some have mentioned though...he is VITAL to our team scoring so you might roll with the punches with Cumberland. If we are going to sit him with 2 fouls I think we need to get Johnson on the court and that probably has to be with Broome and not Jenifer.

Waterhead I think what Mick needs to do is run a more player friendly offense with multiple player options. Because what happens is the guys stand around and doesn’t move. Which makes us very easy to guard. Especially when we will are not shooting the ball well. I don’t think Mick knows how to draw up play to incorporate more than 1 player.

 

[BearcatsNE]

Agree Broome will have better nights but he can't negate those better nights by giving up open looks which negate his offense.

It’s a result of some of the way Cronin does things. If Cronin was more of a players coach and allowed more freedom of play. You’re see guys like Cane and Justin putting up shoots and not passing on them. Cane shot the ball 2 times in the second half and if he’s our second option he needs more touches than that. And that’s where Mick comes in, and plus he had Cane sitting for over 6 minutes in the second half. That can’t happen, Mick need to do better substituting

 

[waterhead]

Waterhead I think what Mick needs to do is run a more player friendly offense with multiple player options. Because what happens is the guys stand around and doesn’t move. Which makes us very easy to guard. Especially when we will are not shooting the ball well. I don’t think Mick knows how to draw up play to incorporate more than 1 player.

I am not going to go back and watch that ugliness but it seems to me we didn't get a lot of set shots from 3 off the pass. We no longer have an inside out game which helped tremendously in that regard when our bigs were doubled. Now all we have is send Cumberland or Broome towards the lane and kick it out...but we didn't get much out of that in terms of easy set shots. Our shooting suffered because of that. When passing it around the perimeter we rarely do it fast enough or with enough reversals to keep the defense on their toes. I saw Cumberland begging for the quick reversal twice in the same sequence last night and he would have been open both times.

Just little things would help

 

[[email protected]]

Sooooooooo depressing. The team Mick had the first year he took over from Andy Kennedy was better than this one offensively.

 

[Bcatfollower]

Until we are able to recruit with the big boys again this is the product we are forced to live with. Are you willing to bit the bit for a couple years while Mick changes his philosophy which enables us to win a bunch of games and compete for league and conference titles for the chance we may advance a bit farther in the dance,

And Legend my friend your much to smart a fan to believe the melt down we had in the Nevada game was philosophy.

One coukd argue that his lack of offensive mentality prevents better recruits from coming to u.c.. i doubt many good scorers would look at how mick coaches O as something they want to do.