OT: Anybody see Montrezl Harrell last night?

[bearcat jeff]

Cincinnati has made 1 Final Four since 1963. That is not elite.

I have argued this for years. There is a differene between very good and elite. Most of the lingering disdain for the program is from those with an inflated view of where the program was. They get mad and say you're disrespecting the past when you point it out. I loved that era, but as I have said over and over, the only place that viewed UC as elite was Cincinnati.

It was a fun time and UC was on the cusp of taking that step between 92-96 but just couldn't sustain any postseason success after that.

 

[CinciSportsFan]

I have argued this for years. There is a differene between very good and elite. Most of the lingering disdain for the program is from those with an inflated view of where the program was. They get mad and say you're disrespecting the past when you point it out. I loved that era, but as I have said over and over, the only place that viewed UC as elite was Cincinnati.

It was a fun time and UC was on the cusp of taking that step between 92-96 but just couldn't sustain any postseason success after that.

I'm confident Cronin can change that.

 

[bearcat jeff]

The last 9 years of the Huggs era saw 1 Sweet 16 and the rest were 1st or 2nd round exits and those years included a 1 seed, 2 - 2 seeds, and 2 - 3 seeds along with 1 - 4 seed. There was certainly the opportunity take that step it simply never happened. Again great, fun years but lost opportunities.

I think the program is re-entering where it was during those 9 years, and in the next 2-3 years will take another step upward.

 

[L-T]

The last 9 years of the Huggs era saw 1 Sweet 16 and the rest were 1st or 2nd round exits and those years included a 1 seed, 2 - 2 seeds, and 2 - 3 seeds along with 1 - 4 seed. There was certainly the opportunity take that step it simply never happened. Again great, fun years but lost opportunities.

I think the program is re-entering where it was during those 9 years, and in the next 2-3 years will take another step upward.

Arguing your point using about 2% of the actual facts is like OJ arguing that he was innocent because the glove didn't fit. There's been very little comedy on TV tonight. Thank God we have this Forum. This is some funny stuff on this thread.

 

[L-T]

http://www.gobearcats.com/datadump/sports/mbball/history/history.html

All you "negative" naysayers on here need to contact our athletic department and have them correct our university's basketball website. They seem to agree with L-T. If you don't believe it, click on the attachment. Read it and weep!!! Pay very close attention to the very first sentence which our school uses to describe our program. The last 7 paragraphs are dedicated to the years that you all describe as very good, but disappointing, and certainly not elite.

The 1st sentence obviously sets the theme for the story of our program, and the paragraphs that follow support that theme. Funny how there's not a single word or paragraph about the present regime. Why is that? I've been deemed negative because I believe our program should live up to it's proud tradition, which the university agrees with me to be one of the elite programs in college basketball history...or at least it was.

So, I think we can now safely put this argument to bed. I'm sure the university would greatly appreciate its fanbase's acknowledgement of its proud history and tradition, and its place among the "elite" of college basketball! Lets not be satisfied with anything short of "quickly" reclaiming our place among the elite of college basketball and getting back into one of the power conferences where we belong!

 

[L-T]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...balls-10-greatest-programs-of-all-time/page/2

A 2012 article declaring us as one of the top 15 programs in college basketball history.

 

[L-T]

Here's an article from one month ago that still lists us as one of the top 10 programs of all time.

http://gojoebruin.com/2014/10/21/fa...e-basketball-programs-of-all-time-ucla-third/

Here's an ESPN Poll asking fans to rank the 15 best basketball programs all time. They only give the fans 15 choices. The UC Bearcats are among he 15!!!

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/post/_/id/10746993/all-hoops-programs

Com'on people. Be proud of the fact that we're one of the "elite" programs of all time. Don't downplay it. Don't understate it. Don't settle for anything less. Embrace it! Don't try to make a case why we aren't "elite". Let's be "positive" about our program!!!

 

[#BearcatNation]

http://www.gobearcats.com/datadump/sports/mbball/history/history.html

All you "negative" naysayers on here need to contact our athletic department and have them correct our university's basketball website. They seem to agree with L-T. If you don't believe it, click on the attachment. Read it and weep!!! Pay very close attention to the very first sentence which our school uses to describe our program. The last 7 paragraphs are dedicated to the years that you all describe as very good, but disappointing, and certainly not elite.

The 1st sentence obviously sets the theme for the story of our program, and the paragraphs that follow support that theme. Funny how there's not a single word or paragraph about the present regime. Why is that? I've been deemed negative because I believe our program should live up to it's proud tradition, which the university agrees with me to be one of the elite programs in college basketball history...or at least it was.

So, I think we can now safely put this argument to bed. I'm sure the university would greatly appreciate its fanbase's acknowledgement of its proud history and tradition, and its place among the "elite" of college basketball! Lets not be satisfied with anything short of "quickly" reclaiming our place among the elite of college basketball and getting back into one of the power conferences where we belong!

Because it was written at least 10 years ago, and never updated. There's a lot of old, archived files on gobearcats.com.

 

[JackBauer151]

I sit on both sides of the fence on this issue. When you look at the numbers there is no question Cincinnati is a top 25 program of all time. (Which is where we have been the last 5 years). However its also important to discuss Cincinnati basketball in the context of recent history. Have not had a national championship in over 50 years and havent had a final 4 in over 20. Those are not "elite" results. Now we have won a lot of games over that time and as a fan I am very proud of that. I will continue to boast that fact even without success in March. A single elimination tournament can dramatically change the perception of how good a program is. This program as it stands right now is not "elite" and whose fault is that? It's the administration's. Plain and simple the people in charge at UC have not invested in Cincinnati basketball to the degree that is required to maintain an "elite" status. Now whether that is because they couldn't, wouldn't, or shouldn't is up for debate. I just know that they have not. When the head coach has to do fundraising for his own plane to recruit, fundraising for new locker rooms, fundraising for the practice gym, gets passed over for funding for football when the program has only been relevant for 5 years (yes I understand why), plays in a multi purpose gym not a basketball arena, and has one of the smallest budgets in their conference, it is easy to see why the program has not been able to produce "elite" results. Top programs just in the Midwest dont deal with those issues. Even Chris Mack has a damn plane to recruit. So my point is that context matters. I honesty think Cronin has overachieved with the challenges he faces compared to a lot of his competitors, and it's why I give him a long leash when it comes to March. Cincinnati is most certainly one of the best programs of all time but a lot needs to happen before we even have the chance to become "elite" consistently in today's landscape of college basketball.

(I also think some of those things are starting to happen. New arena, new locker rooms, revitalized campus, attention to marketing as there is an 8 year high in season ticket sales, consistent winning and recruiting classes, seemingly full support from AD and President, and full student support. I think the train is just leaving the station but have to execute all of these things well and consistently.)

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I sit on both sides of the fence on this issue. When you look at the numbers there is no question Cincinnati is a top 25 program of all time. (Which is where we have been the last 5 years). However its also important to discuss Cincinnati basketball in the context of recent history. Have not had a national championship in over 50 years and havent had a final 4 in over 20. Those are not "elite" results. Now we have won a lot of games over that time and as a fan I am very proud of that. I will continue to boast that fact even without success in March. A single elimination tournament can dramatically change the perception of how good a program is. This program as it stands right now is not "elite" and whose fault is that? It's the administration's. Plain and simple the people in charge at UC have not invested in Cincinnati basketball to the degree that is required to maintain an "elite" status. Now whether that is because they couldn't, wouldn't, or shouldn't is up for debate. I just know that they have not. When the head coach has to do fundraising for his own plane to recruit, fundraising for new locker rooms, fundraising for the practice gym, gets passed over for funding for football when the program has only been relevant for 5 years (yes I understand why), plays in a multi purpose gym not a basketball arena, and has one of the smallest budgets in their conference, it is easy to see why the program has not been able to produce "elite" results. Top programs just in the Midwest dont deal with those issues. Even Chris Mack has a damn plane to recruit. So my point is that context matters. I honesty think Cronin has overachieved with the challenges he faces compared to a lot of his competitors, and it's why I give him a long leash when it comes to March. Cincinnati is most certainly one of the best programs of all time but a lot needs to happen before we even have the chance to become "elite" consistently in today's landscape of college basketball.

(I also think some of those things are starting to happen. New arena, new locker rooms, revitalized campus, attention to marketing as there is an 8 year high in season ticket sales, consistent winning and recruiting classes, seemingly full support from AD and President, and full student support. I think the train is just leaving the station but have to execute all of these things well and consistently.)

Very well put Jack

 

[L-T]

I sit on both sides of the fence on this issue. When you look at the numbers there is no question Cincinnati is a top 25 program of all time. (Which is where we have been the last 5 years). However its also important to discuss Cincinnati basketball in the context of recent history. Have not had a national championship in over 50 years and havent had a final 4 in over 20. Those are not "elite" results. Now we have won a lot of games over that time and as a fan I am very proud of that. I will continue to boast that fact even without success in March. A single elimination tournament can dramatically change the perception of how good a program is. This program as it stands right now is not "elite" and whose fault is that? It's the administration's. Plain and simple the people in charge at UC have not invested in Cincinnati basketball to the degree that is required to maintain an "elite" status. Now whether that is because they couldn't, wouldn't, or shouldn't is up for debate. I just know that they have not. When the head coach has to do fundraising for his own plane to recruit, fundraising for new locker rooms, fundraising for the practice gym, gets passed over for funding for football when the program has only been relevant for 5 years (yes I understand why), plays in a multi purpose gym not a basketball arena, and has one of the smallest budgets in their conference, it is easy to see why the program has not been able to produce "elite" results. Top programs just in the Midwest dont deal with those issues. Even Chris Mack has a damn plane to recruit. So my point is that context matters. I honesty think Cronin has overachieved with the challenges he faces compared to a lot of his competitors, and it's why I give him a long leash when it comes to March. Cincinnati is most certainly one of the best programs of all time but a lot needs to happen before we even have the chance to become "elite" consistently in today's landscape of college basketball.

(I also think some of those things are starting to happen. New arena, new locker rooms, revitalized campus, attention to marketing as there is an 8 year high in season ticket sales, consistent winning and recruiting classes, seemingly full support from AD and President, and full student support. I think the train is just leaving the station but have to execute all of these things well and consistently.)

Jack, a big part of the problem is that our fanbase no longer views us as elite, and thus has quit coming to games. People who sit around and make ridiculous statements that we should all be happy if we just make the tournament are so grossly lowering our standards that they are just exacerbating our decent to something less than elite. Thank God that the national perception of this program is nowhere near the low perception that our own fans have of the program. As the articles above demonstrate, the nation still views us as elite. But, you make many good points. Let's not sit on forums like this and lower our expectations and eventually find out that we've created self-fulfilling prophesies and wake up to find one day that we are suddenly no longer in the conversation that discusses the elite programs in college basketball. We're obviously headed in that direction. Some of the things you mentioned will hopefully help, but getting our fans to embrace the program again and quit tearing it down is just as important!

 

[Mcginnjw]

Here's an article from one month ago that still lists us as one of the top 10 programs of all time.

http://gojoebruin.com/2014/10/21/fa...e-basketball-programs-of-all-time-ucla-third/

Here's an ESPN Poll asking fans to rank the 15 best basketball programs all time. They only give the fans 15 choices. The UC Bearcats are among he 15!!!

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/post/_/id/10746993/all-hoops-programs

Com'on people. Be proud of the fact that we're one of the "elite" programs of all time. Don't downplay it. Don't understate it. Don't settle for anything less. Embrace it! Don't try to make a case why we aren't "elite". Let's be "positive" about our program!!!

I think most on this board are proud die hard bearcat fans. So I think we are arguing the same point. I love and financially support this program...always have and always will.

I was a huge Huggins fan. I just prefer the way Cronin has built his program and believe that Cronin is a better representative of UC than Huggins.

The reality is that Huggins had numerous off the court issues with his program. His teams overwhelmingly underachieved in the tournaments. His recruiting was always scrutinized as shady and borderline violated NCAA rules. His schedule was traditionally weak...and our teams were always dubbed over rated. His players were always in legal trouble. Huggins himself was in legal trouble for his drinking issues....that is the crap that made my head hurt. Fact is that Huggins is an alcoholic whose work suffered because of his drinking problems.

Cronin has built a very good program with hardly any off the court issues (Lance Stephenson). He is winning and his teams are typically dubbed overachievers by the national media. He has had a brutal conference schedule and started with nothing. Cronin is a class act and more importantly so are the kids that have played under him. He is building the right way and therefore I believe this program will experience long term sustained success.

I wish some in our fan base will be realistic about the Huggins era and appreciate what Cronin is currently achieving. The future is very bright for this program and I hope more fans financially support The current team. That is what Cronin needs the most to take the program to elite levels.

 

[L-T]

Because it was written at least 10 years ago, and never updated. There's a lot of old, archived files on gobearcats.com.

Do you honestly think we wouldn't update our file of the "History" of this program if something significant would happen? When our current achievements live up to our historical standards, I'm sure the file will be updated to reflect that. The story is about an elite program. I'm doing my part to make sure this fanbase never forgets that. I'm sure Mick Cronin would literally puke if he read some of the perceptions and expectations on here.

 

[#BearcatNation]

Do you honestly think we wouldn't update our file of the "History" of this program if something significant would happen? When our current achievements live up to our historical standards, I'm sure the file will be updated to reflect that. The story is about an elite program. I'm doing my part to make sure this fanbase never forgets that. I'm sure Mick Cronin would literally puke if he read some of the perceptions and expectations on here.

http://www.gobearcats.com/datadump/sports/mbball/history/timeline.html

This stops in 2006. Do you think that's intentional? Think that's a jab at Cronin? Cronin has had some seasons that were better than Huggins' last few, without a doubt. It's in the "archives" section for a reason. It's just old.

I guess I just don't get the whole "then vs. now" debate on the program. Yes, we are not back to "elite" status at the moment, but you know how easy it would've been for the program to tank after the Huggins ousting and having a temp. coach for a year? We could've fallen into the abyss and become a school like Houston. I truly thought that might happen after the Lance Stephenson season. We've rebounded well. It's just time to take the next step now is all.

 

[L-T]

I think most on this board are proud die hard bearcat fans. So I think we are arguing the same point. I love and financially support this program...always have and always will.

I was a huge Huggins fan. I just prefer the way Cronin has built his program and believe that Cronin is a better representative of UC than Huggins.

The reality is that Huggins had numerous off the court issues with his program. His teams overwhelmingly underachieved in the tournaments. His recruiting was always scrutinized as shady and borderline violated NCAA rules. His schedule was traditionally weak...and our teams were always dubbed over rated. His players were always in legal trouble. Huggins himself was in legal trouble for his drinking issues....that is the crap that made my head hurt. Fact is that Huggins is an alcoholic whose work suffered because of his drinking problems.

Cronin has built a very good program with hardly any off the court issues (Lance Stephenson). He is winning and his teams are typically dubbed overachievers by the national media. He has had a brutal conference schedule and started with nothing. Cronin is a class act and more importantly so are the kids that have played under him. He is building the right way and therefore I believe this program will experience long term sustained success.

I wish some in our fan base will be realistic about the Huggins era and appreciate what Cronin is currently achieving. The future is very bright for this program and I hope more fans financially support The current team. That is what Cronin needs the most to take the program to elite levels.

Some in this fanbase, and the University as a whole, are both very realistic about that era. The university devoted 7 paragraphs of that story to that proud era, but now you've proceeded to blow up all the good news with your post. This is a glass-half-empty attitude. The fact that the university feels strongly enough that it chose to prominently include that era as proof that we're an elite program, should be enough reason for you to do the same. You're right, Mick has done many great things. He's a few steps away from having us all the way back. Let's hope he closes the deal in the next few years and unites this fanbase once again.

 

[BearcatSpaniard513]

The program is heading in the right direction, ahead of schedule many would say. Next years team will be poised to make a Final 4 run. We all need to relax. Mick has everything under control. We are an elite program. Their are other elite programs like Kentucky, Arizona, Duke and North Carolina that are where we want to be right now, but we'll get there

 

[L-T]

http://www.gobearcats.com/datadump/sports/mbball/history/timeline.html

This stops in 2006. Do you think that's intentional? Think that's a jab at Cronin? Cronin has had some seasons that were better than Huggins' last few, without a doubt. It's in the "archives" section for a reason. It's just old.

I guess I just don't get the whole "then vs. now" debate on the program. Yes, we are not back to "elite" status at the moment, but you know how easy it would've been for the program to tank after the Huggins ousting and having a temp. coach for a year? We could've fallen into the abyss and become a school like Houston. I truly thought that might happen after the Lance Stephenson season. We've rebounded well. It's just time to take the next step now is all.

I don't know what the university's motives are for ignoring the current coach's accomplishments, but that's certainly part of the problem, don't you think?

I hate to bring up politics and Obama, but isn't this argument very similar to what's going on in the political arena. This nation was headed into the abyss at the end of Bush's term, and no matter what we all think of Obama, his leadership kept us out of a complete disaster. But, because he never fully brought us back to prosperity, he is vilified and disrespected by everyone.

This university just extended Mick's contract and made him the face of this program going forward into the future, yet these obvious areas on their own website where they ignore his accomplishments are great examples of where this administration is badly dropping the ball.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

I don't know what the university's motives are for ignoring the current coach's accomplishments, but that's certainly part of the problem, don't you think?

I hate to bring up politics and Obama, but isn't this argument very similar to what's going on in the political arena. This nation was headed into the abyss at the end of Bush's term, and no matter what we all think of Obama, his leadership kept us out of a complete disaster. But, because he never fully brought us back to prosperity, he is vilified and disrespected by everyone.

This university just extended Mick's contract and made him the face of this program going forward into the future, yet these obvious areas on their own website where they ignore his accomplishments are great examples of where this administration is badly dropping the ball.

Zzzzzzzzzzzz...

 

[L-T]

The program is heading in the right direction, ahead of schedule many would say. Next years team will be poised to make a Final 4 run. We all need to relax. Mick has everything under control. We are an elite program. Their are other elite programs like Kentucky, Arizona, Duke and North Carolina that are where we want to be right now, but we'll get there

BS, you just said it the way it needed to be said, and you did it with a minimal amount of words. I'm so happy to hear someone raise the bar of expectations to include the words...FINAL FOUR....and not to just being happy to make the tournament. I agree with you. This roster of young players does have final four potential. We don't lose much after this season. The future is indeed bright!

 

[#BearcatNation]

BS, you just said it the way it needed to be said, and you did it with a minimal amount of words. I'm so happy to hear someone raise the bar of expectations to include the words...FINAL FOUR....and not to just being happy to make the tournament. I agree with you. This roster of young players does have final four potential. We don't lose much after this season. The future is indeed bright!

Two things:

1) Nobody is happy with JUST making the tournament. Do you think after that loss to Harvard last year, people were like "Oh well. At least we made it." No! We were very frustrated to see an early exit. But one game does not define a season. There was plenty to be proud of last year.

2) If you "just" make the tournament for 15 straight years, you're going to have some good teams and go on some runs. Don't make it sound like going to the big dance is nothing. We've make it 4 straight years. As long as this year isn't too much of a struggle, I don't think making it 8-10 straight years is at all out of the question. Maybe more. You do that, and you'll likely at minimum have an Elite Eight in there.