JasonS
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Nope. Just a very recent example. It's not worth spending any more time on it because it is ludicrous.
OT - LeBron
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Nope. Just a very recent example. It's not worth spending any more time on it because it is ludicrous.
Robert
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Mike Miller's stats in his year with Washington, his 3 years with Miami, and last season with Memphis:
09-10 (WSH) - 10.9 pts, 6.2 reb, 3.9 ast, 33.4 min
10-11 (MIA) - 5.6 pts, 4.5 reb, 1.2 ast, 20.4 min
11-12 (MIA) - 6.1 pts, 3.3 reb, 1.1 ast, 19.3 min
12-13 (MIA) - 4.8 pts, 2.7 reb, 1.7 ast, 15.3 min
13-14 (MEM) - 7.1 pts, 2.5 reb, 1.6 ast, 20.8 min
I don't think Mike Miller is a very good example. He was more or less the same player in Miami he has been his entire career, only he played less minutes and had back problems.
I do think LeBron makes his teammates better, but no more than many other superstars such as Chris Paul, Kevin Durant, and Tim Duncan. He is the greatest player of this generation and deserves his due for that. I don't care for the influence he has had on free agency in the NBA, but he has been a model citizen off the court.
09-10 (WSH) - 10.9 pts, 6.2 reb, 3.9 ast, 33.4 min
10-11 (MIA) - 5.6 pts, 4.5 reb, 1.2 ast, 20.4 min
11-12 (MIA) - 6.1 pts, 3.3 reb, 1.1 ast, 19.3 min
12-13 (MIA) - 4.8 pts, 2.7 reb, 1.7 ast, 15.3 min
13-14 (MEM) - 7.1 pts, 2.5 reb, 1.6 ast, 20.8 min
I don't think Mike Miller is a very good example. He was more or less the same player in Miami he has been his entire career, only he played less minutes and had back problems.
I do think LeBron makes his teammates better, but no more than many other superstars such as Chris Paul, Kevin Durant, and Tim Duncan. He is the greatest player of this generation and deserves his due for that. I don't care for the influence he has had on free agency in the NBA, but he has been a model citizen off the court.
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jacobkdoyle
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I'm just trying to figure out why LeBron has only won 10 out of 26 career Finals games. It just always seems to be "LeBron has bo help" as the default line. But the more I thought about his time in Miami, the more I noticed the trend in his career. It may not be any different than the Jordan/Kobes of the world, but they were more selfish offensively. Maybe LeBron needs to cut loose and drop 50 more often since the rest of his team combined never seems to be able to top 50 pts no matter what he does. In game 4, LeBron had 9 at half. They were getting smoked. He came out with 19 in the 3rd but it was way too late. He needed to be doing that th whole time once he saw what was happening in the series. Again, not trashing the guy, but something has to be different if he is going to get anymore rings.
Bearcat Rob
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He made mo williams an all star in Cleveland
jacobkdoyle
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There ya go. Didn't think of him. That's what I was looking for.
Robert
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Mo Williams' stats in Cleveland were almost identical to his stats the last two seasons he played in Milwaukee. He was already an established borderline all star talent before he played with LeBron, which is why Cleveland acquired him.
Bearcat Rob
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Milwaukee was horrible those years and he wasn't close to an all star, ya his stats were close but 17.8 pts a game on a team with the best record in the nba (Cleveland) is like 3 times better than 17.2 pts a game on a 26-56 Milwaukee team. The fact that his stats went up going from that team to the cavs shows lebrons greatness
jacobkdoyle
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Mo Williams is the best example I think. It just seems like over the course of playing 300-400 games with LeBron you are so used to deferring to him that you become a specialty player and a shell of your former self. Guys like Bosh, Chalmers, Cole, Lewis, Battier, and Allen are traiined to just stand around the perimeter on offense so they're out of LeBron's driving lane and open for 3s on his passes but they don't have a true big that can pass from the inside. They need a Lowry type PG and LeBron needs to get the ball in the post more imo. LeBron is a great FG% guy as a shooter, but he could torch people on an inside out game bc he'd pass so well out of double teams and he is so strong.
the_one_32
Recruiting Analyst
How about the entire 2007 Cleveland Cavaliers team he led to the finals with what really was a 35+ YMCA league teams alongside him. Smh getting tired of the lebron hate and questioning his greatness.
jacobkdoyle
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I'm not hating on LeBron. I'm trying to figure out what would help him win more championships. If things dont change a lot, he isn't going to beat SA, OKC, or LAC next year.
jacobkdoyle
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Bringing up the 2007 Cavs kind of makes my point...that was ALL LeBron and it wasn't enough. And now 4 years into the hand picked situation, it is the same story. Something has to change. Saying that doesn't mean I don't understand LeBron's greatness. But the system he is playing in isn't good enough for him to win 2 or 3 more rings. So I suggest a PG and LeBron as more of a 4...what is your fix?
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the_one_32
Recruiting Analyst
Please don't act like I made your point. Lol. Your point was LeBron doesn't make his teammates better and I presented you a situation where he did and then you switch and say I made your point because that was all LeBron. Sigh. Let me ask you a question how many titles did Jordan/Kobe/Magic/Bird win by themselves... Don't worry I will wait... Oh that's right NONE. The fact that LeBron has to listen to the crap he does is beyond funny to me. He needs a healthy D Wade and a bench that hasn't received their AARP card.
jacobkdoyle
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LeBron had to score what? 25 straight points in that game 5 of 2007 Eastern finals? Then they got smoked in the Finals? It was all him. Everyone else was coming with him no matter who they were. He didn't make those guys better. They literally did nothing. That's a horrible example.
Why is LeBron above any criticism at all? In a championship setting he has lost more than won. Obviously those other legends had good players with them but Jordan has 6 rings and Kobe and Magic have 5. Lebron's 2x defending champs just lost 4 out of 5 by 15+ points. Jordan lost 1 Finals game in his whole career by 15+. LeBron is the best player in the world right now but the Miami roster is falling apart and it is going to take more than random bench guys and healthy Wade to beat any of the top 3 teams in the West. And btw Wade isn't going to magically get healthy.
Why is LeBron above any criticism at all? In a championship setting he has lost more than won. Obviously those other legends had good players with them but Jordan has 6 rings and Kobe and Magic have 5. Lebron's 2x defending champs just lost 4 out of 5 by 15+ points. Jordan lost 1 Finals game in his whole career by 15+. LeBron is the best player in the world right now but the Miami roster is falling apart and it is going to take more than random bench guys and healthy Wade to beat any of the top 3 teams in the West. And btw Wade isn't going to magically get healthy.
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jacobkdoyle
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http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2014/06/raptors-eyeing-lowry.html
There we go. Lowry makes a huge difference.
There we go. Lowry makes a huge difference.
Bearcat_NTS
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How can you stipulate that a player has to opt out and return to Toronto? That rumor doesn't seem real...
jacobkdoyle
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Yeah it wouldnt be a sign and trade. Miami would have to get Lowry as a FA.
jacobkdoyle
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Robert
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Yes, a lot of people don't like LeBron. So what? He's the greatest player of this generation, no doubt, but I don't particularly like him. I never had a problem with him until the "decision" and while my feelings have softened since then, he's never going to be one of my favorite players. I don't blame him for leaving Cleveland, but I just can't get on board with players conspiring to form super teams to chase championships -- even though they are perfectly within their right to do so. It just isn't something I find enjoyable as an NBA fan.
AAABearcat
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Oklahoma City acquired the rights for $$$