Recruiting Prospects

[bearcat jeff]

Cpaw asked me about the current state of UC recruiting and I wanted to put out a new thread so it could be discussed.

We all know the one and done has changed the scape of basketball recruiting. There are a handful of difference makers and they are going to go perenially to big name programs where they have a legit shot at a national championship and where they will get the utmost exposure to increase their draft status. If this program doesn't return to the NCAA consistently, they will have an extremely hard time competing for this type of player.

To me that leaves the next level or 2-3 year and done players and filling in with quality, coachable, hard working program guys. If you doubt the improtance of this just look across town at a team that is going to the Sweet 16 regularly with this formula. Look at the National Championship runner up. Look in the Great NW where Gonzaga resides.

Mick and company needs to apply this formula to UC and I believe all signs are pointing to this very thing. I really like what I'm seeing from a perimeter stand point with the 2011 class. I'm not convinced Guyn or Carter (if persauded) one won't play in 2010. Smith has already signed and is a gym rat. Throw in Jermaine Sanders, Tyquan Goodlett, Jerome Seagears, Maurice Harkless and you can see that "Bearcat Attitude" is now part of the equation. Darren Savino joining the staff greatly strengthens the ties to recruiting the northeast and could be huge in signing some of these guys. Rumor is that Mick is much closer to Cedrick McAfee than most realize as well. Though Davis has seen his stock fall nationally this spring and summer, most still see him as a top prospect.

Down low I don't think U.C. will sign Chane or Sampson. I look for them to go after guys like Nick Jacobs, Tommie McCune, Javon Pressley, Greg Lewis and players similiar to them. I really like Jacobs but it'll be hard to pull him from the south. Anthony Davis and Amir Williams aren't happening. They is the possibility of a greater impact in the 2012 class with guys like Alex Poythress, Jeremy Hollowell, Deontae Hawkins and Mitch McGary.

The class can still be really good. UC is in pretty well with some very good basketball talent. The perimeter will be the concentration, especially wing players like Sanders, Langford and Harkless, and they'll find some bigs to add depth who aren't program changers but solid. I like the potential of this class and I like the approach I see from the staff. I sense some things are changing and I hope they are successful so they can see it thru.

 

[Thegreatone]

Thanks for the write up. I felt much more comfortable about this class 2 months ago. I am starting to believe this might end up being a flop. But I dont want to doubt MC when it comes to recruiting. He seems to find a way to pull through.

 

[cincycpaw]

But I dont want to doubt MC when it comes to recruiting. He seems to find a way to pull through.

How so?


I'm very nervous about this class and the state the program will be in in 2 years time. I'm glad to read Bearcat Jeff's opinion and hope he is right. Thanks.

 

[Thegreatone]

If you look at who he has landed in his tenure I think we can all agree he got talent on paper. Ability to progress that talent is definately a ?.

Wilks, Lance, Biggie, Yancy and Cash were all considered top 60 talent.

 

[bearcat jeff]

If you look at who he has landed in his tenure I think we can all agree he got talent on paper. Ability to progress that talent is definately a ?.

Wilks, Lance, Biggie, Yancy and Cash were all considered top 60 talent.

Lance was above average. He just didn't live up to the hype. His game is suited to the pro game and I think he'll have a very nice career. Wilks is what I thought he would be. He is a tweener who appears to have made a very positive turn at the end of last season. He never had the good ball skills to be a 3 in college and lacked the strength his first 2 seasons to play pf effectively. His rating was largely on athleticism that was off the chart. I think he would be further along had UC had a better point guard and could run more. Biggie was another rated highly on size and potential. Chronic foot issues have kept him from reaching his full potential. Cash was set back a full year by injury. The loss of a competitive year is huge in terms of development. The clean up on his knee shouldn't take more than a month to recover from.

People are enamoured by a star and a number. Most people will tell you that in most years, after you get past about the top 25 or so players, that it's a crap shoot. They are far too many players today to see all of them as much as you really need to eveluate them totally effectively. Also, the talent around them means so much. You look much better running with a team that has 2-3 potential McD AA's than on a team where you are the only legitimate high D1 prospect. Also, a players self discipline and drive to be and get better can't be measured and plays a large role in how quickly a kid moves his game up a level. Every season there are kids that we never heard of or weren't ranked very highly that contribute, and every year there are so called can't miss prospects that do.

If you find "basketball players" that understand the game it makes up for so much that you may miss out on. The icing gets put on the cake by winning. You win by playing the game the right way. I want kids with heart, with basketball iq, playground toughness, that hate to lose and have a chip on their shoulder. Kids that are tough are usually tough mentally too. I see those kinds of recruits being sought after.

Now I'm not saying that Mick is going to land a top ten class, but I do think 2011 will be a good recruiting class, and with winning and a little patience to wait on a couple players it could be real nice. I'm excited about what Savino brings in terms of game prep, practice and recruiting ties. I also like what the players are doing on their own this offseason. mostly I like the attitude of Killa, Thomas, Jackson, Parker, and Cash. I also believe you'll see a much different Bishop in terms of aggression. There is a core of players here for the first time in awhile that have some talent that is willing to work hard for what they want and hate to lose. They have a good rapport overall as well. When is the last time you have been able to say that? Now the coaches have to evaluate how best to use them and bring it together. That's my question for the coming season. Can they do it?

 

[david aka the TYZ]

I agree that we need to take the 2-3 year-and-done player approach. We're not going to land many one-and-dones at this point. One-and-dones are good to boost an already solid team. Once we get there, I would love to go after and hopefully land some of these guys.

I think too many fans are worried about the number of stars next to a player's name and not the quality that player will have in the future. Obviously when looking at a recruit before he gets on the court, the only thing you have to go by is how highly touted he is, but unless you get all the top recruits like a UNC or UK, etc. your formula for winning needs to be finding solid, smart, coachable players that fit into your style of play and compliment your existing team. I think that is what Mick is going for, we just haven't seen the results yet. The Yancey/Cash/Dixon is the first true class we could take out of Mick. They are in their third year now. Typically the junior year is when you can tell if a recruit will pan out or not. I know fans are impatient and want to win now (I do, too) but I think we need to let things progress through this year. I like the sophomore class we have and while a little disappointed we couldn't bring in another name, I like Jackson and Gaines potential out of this years class. I think the 2011 class will be just fine. We might not land a big name, but Mick has a lot of scholarships open and can be choosey. Also, I think fans need to remember that more and more good recruits wait until after their senior season to commit to better evaluate their options. There is still plenty of time to land some bigger names. Winning will go a long way in that regard.

 

[swg]

Good write up! I do think UC either has to win before we start seeing the recruits that is needed. Not making the NCAA tourney isn't exactly a huge draw for recruits.
That said, I'm sure MC is doing the best he can.

 

[cincycpaw]

I think too many fans are worried about the number of stars next to a player's name and not the quality that player will have in the future.

I think this worry comes from the fact that the 2-3 star players we have had haven't really done much nor developed much.

The time to grab 2-3 star players and have them develop was long before 2011. We can't wait on too many players to develop now or they might have a new coach trying to develop them.

Anyhow, bcatjeff is very close to the recruiting and feels good, so I feel better.

 

[bearcat jeff]

Let's clarify. I feel good about the possibilities. I was lukewarm to the Smith signing, but like what I am hearing about the effort he is putting in to play more effectively on the perimeter in college. I like the Guyn commitment and think he'll be a solid player as he develops and gets stronger.

The rest is still up in the air. What will Davis do? Can he play pg at the college level? His shot from distance has been off so does this help Cincinnati as others back off a bit? Mick was on Sanders early, but now others are getting involved as well. Same with Seagears. Interest in him is picking up. You could go on. Who are they going to fill the sf/wing with? Khristian Smith will probably play some there, but do they have a shot at Harkless or Langford? The frontcourt is the biggest question to me. Who will they sign to fill those needs.

What I want folks to understand is don't write this class off because Teague went to Kentucky. This is a deep class. It's not as top heavy as some have been. There are some very good, solid players out there and Cincinnati is in the mix with many of them. Again, I really like adding Savino, especially with some east coast talent in the crosshairs (Goodlett, Sanders, Harkless, etc.). There's a shot at a real good '11 class still. I also like U.C.'s standing with players in the '12 class. Winning will help.

 

[david aka the TYZ]

I think this worry comes from the fact that the 2-3 star players we have had haven't really done much nor developed much.

The time to grab 2-3 star players and have them develop was long before 2011. We can't wait on too many players to develop now or they might have a new coach trying to develop them.

Anyhow, bcatjeff is very close to the recruiting and feels good, so I feel better.

No, that is fair and I agree. Most of these players haven't panned out. But neither did our two 5-star recruits (Gates/Stephenson). I think Cash, Parker, Thomas and killa will end up showing those past two recruiting classes are better than most give Mick credit for. And I'm hoping Jackson at least will do the same.

 

[Bearcat_NTS]

I assume that this 2011 class has been a selling point Cronin has used to keep his job safe. I'm sure that class will not be terrible but from what it looked like lets say in 08-09 when Amir Williams was a UC lean, Chane was a commit, Davis was a UC lean and UC was among those for Teague it isn't enough to warrant keeping Mick around.

 

[psax889906]

I assume that this 2011 class has been a selling point Cronin has used to keep his job safe. I'm sure that class will not be terrible but from what it looked like lets say in 08-09 when Amir Williams was a UC lean, Chane was a commit, Davis was a UC lean and UC was among those for Teague it isn't enough to warrant keeping Mick around.

Exactly... many (Myself included) kept saying, give him a full cycle (3-4 years) to develop relationships early on with players and we'll see it pay off... unfortunately... it looks as though the caliber of recruit we'll be getting for the 2011 class will be the same level of years past, if not below it considering Yancy and Lance were both 5 star recruits.

 

[Who Dey Time]

No, that is fair and I agree. Most of these players haven't panned out. But neither did our two 5-star recruits (Gates/Stephenson). I think Cash, Parker, Thomas and killa will end up showing those past two recruiting classes are better than most give Mick credit for. And I'm hoping Jackson at least will do the same.

Might be a bit unfair to say that Gates and Stephenson didn't pan out. Stephenson was the BE ROY and Gates is only entering his junior year and, as history has shown, most of our "star" big men were not very impressive until the latter part of their UC careers.

IMO, to insinuate that either player hasn't already had or could still have success at UC isn't telling an entirely accurate story.

 

[JasonS]

Might be a bit unfair to say that Gates and Stephenson didn't pan out. Stephenson was the BE ROY and Gates is only entering his junior year and, as history has shown, most of our "star" big men were not very impressive until the latter part of their UC careers.

IMO, to insinuate that either player hasn't already had or could still have success at UC isn't telling an entirely accurate story.

I would agree with this statement.

 

[david aka the TYZ]

Might be a bit unfair to say that Gates and Stephenson didn't pan out. Stephenson was the BE ROY and Gates is only entering his junior year and, as history has shown, most of our "star" big men were not very impressive until the latter part of their UC careers.

IMO, to insinuate that either player hasn't already had or could still have success at UC isn't telling an entirely accurate story.

I meant thus far. My whole argument all along is to give this junior and sophomore class a chance to prove themselves now that they have experience. That has to come this year. Gates could still turn out to warrant his five stars. I might give you that on Stephenson, but a guy that comes in for one year and leads the team in turnovers and misses a heck of a lot of shots doesn't scream great to me. And now he's gone and his scholarship is likely going unused this year. (Not that that is his fault.) My only point really was that the stars next to your name doesn't dictate how good a career you're going to have. Some fans think that if we're not landing five star guys or at least high fours we have no chance to win. Our best player (based on actual production) under Mick would have to be Vaughn and I can't imagine he was more than a two-star recruit.