Season Updates

[cincyguy13]

Such as? I'm not listening

Legend breaking the news to the world that Born Ready was going to be a bearcat game... After seeing him at a random summer league game "oxygen".... Chad claimed it was "stolen" info lol. I've been blocked since.

Chad is annoying. He picks fights for no reason. He thinks he’s more important than he is, but I’ll still listen to anyone talk about uc.

 

[TheLivingLegend]

I think chad knows a little more than us. I’m not saying he in the know for everything but we don’t know anything. He knows more than that.

I found it interesting that Harvey’s advance stats says he’s the worst player on offense and defense. You guys love advanced stats.

I also found it interesting that brannen wanted to keep some of the guys, everyone here thinks he told everyone to leave.

Berg is a fairly neutral party. And knows basketball. I like listening to him

What are these advanced stats?

 

[Queens_NYC]

What are these advanced stats?

Chad stated that Harvey had the worst "offensive and defensive leverage" rating on the team which he described as an advanced +/-.

Harvey's average +/- rating on the season was -3.64/game. I'm not sure how significant that stat is alone, but I guess this leverage statistic has a little more value.

 

[justinhub2003]

What are these advanced stats?

Yea.

I just looked up Zach Harvey’s offensive stats on Synergy and his grade is listed as excellent.

Literally grades our better than 90% of other D1 players
. Defensively he is below Average.

But my guess is he our highest graded offensive player and we lost him,


I told you. It’s state run spin zone media over on BCJ

 

[cincyguy13]

Yea.

I just looked up Zach Harvey’s offensive stats on Synergy and his grade is listed as excellent.

Literally grades our better than 90% of other D1 players
. Defensively he is below Average.

But my guess is he our highest graded offensive player and we lost him,


I told you. It’s state run spin zone media over on BCJ

Yeah, I don’t know the stats. I never know how to look that stuff up. It could not be true but it’s always interesting hearing the other side of things.

Also, you calling people out for spinning an argument is something.

 

[cincyguy13]

Yea.

I just looked up Zach Harvey’s offensive stats on Synergy and his grade is listed as excellent.

Literally grades our better than 90% of other D1 players
. Defensively he is below Average.

But my guess is he our highest graded offensive player and we lost him,


I told you. It’s state run spin zone media over on BCJ

If the guy has 8 assist like someone stated earlier, that could be an issue. I’d love to have Harvey still, but there could be more to the story. Or maybe not

 

[cincrulz11]

Chad stated that Harvey had the worst "offensive and defensive leverage" rating on the team which he described as an advanced +/-.

Harvey's average +/- rating on the season was -3.64/game. I'm not sure how significant that stat is alone, but I guess this leverage statistic has a little more value.

What do they use to come up with that stat.

 

[cincyguy13]

What do they use to come up with that stat.

You can always make those advanced stats say whatever you want. That’s why I don’t love them but I found it interesting that if it was true.

 

[cincrulz11]

You can always make those advanced stats say whatever you want. That’s why I don’t love them but I found it interesting that if it was true.

I mean i really like advanced stats, but I'd like to know what goes into them before judging them.


I could say Harvey had an insane eFG (73) and TS (72.5) in conference, which he did. But its because he hit 10-16 3's in conference play. A number like that isn't sustainable for anybody in the world, and he's probably a guy that shoots half that. Harvey could have been in for some of our awful awful runs, which we go on frequently, and that could screw up some sort of plus/minus stat in just 12 games. And those runs could have had nothing to do with him.


But I think you can see the athlete, you can see how fluid his movement is. He handles the ball well. He's great in transition. He can lock down with on ball defense.


I viewed him as a more athletic Keith but similar issues to Keith in that his shot needs to be fixed. Keith never got his shot figured out and thats why he's shooting 24% from the floor for any shot that isn't at the rim. Harvey puts so much arc on every shot theres no way he can be consistent.

But projecting him going forward, he had by far the most potential of any wing on the roster.

 

[sedziobs]

It's probably something similar to the NBA's PER, which weighs rebounding and assists somewhat heavily. Harvey doesn't rebound or create assists really at all. His defensive rebounding rate is worst on the team, even below Saunders, and offensive rebounding rate is terrible too. His assist rate is also worst on the team. I agree the potential is there watching him drive the ball, but I can definitely see how advance metrics could paint an unfavorable picture.

 

[sedziobs]

Defense is harder to quantify, but his block + steal rate is second lowest on the team after Mason. That also goes into PER. To me, the rebounding is the worst part of this given his position on the wing. Wings should be providing something in terms of rebounding.

So terrible rebounding, assist, and defense statistics. If you adjust for the small sample 46% 3 pt shooting, it's a pretty bad statistical profile.

 

[sedziobs]

Chad stated that Harvey had the worst "offensive and defensive leverage" rating on the team which he described as an advanced +/-.

A quick search for this term brought up this quote from Nate Oats just a couple weeks ago:

The analytics guy sent us some leverage numbers, offensive and defensive, and Keon is one of the highest leverage guys on the team. Both sides of the ball. We are going to give him more minutes.

si.com/college/alabama/bamacentral/nate-oats-on-keon-ellis

Seems to be something other teams are using too.

 

[TheLivingLegend]

Use whatever data analytics people want... At some point the eye test still needs to hold merit. Eye test tells me Harvey is inconsistent but has ability.

 

[justinhub2003]

Yea. In one breath people are saying we should hold out judgement for Mason in the same are judging a Top 50 recruit who had damn severe ankle surgery and didn’t play for a whole season before coming to UC, missed the offseason as he was still recovering and then in this off season he also missed most of the summer from injury.

Harvey has more scoring potential than anyone else on this team. He likely needed until his JR to show they off his skills.

But the reality is... Covid has been a pain in the ass for unpaid college athletes. It’s a lot to deal with and sacrifice. But if that sacrifice isn’t bearing fruit the way you want it to on the court, then I can empathize with wanting a fresh start, maybe closer to home.

 

[cincrulz11]

Defense is harder to quantify, but his block + steal rate is second lowest on the team after Mason. That also goes into PER. To me, the rebounding is the worst part of this given his position on the wing. Wings should be providing something in terms of rebounding.

So terrible rebounding, assist, and defense statistics. If you adjust for the small sample 46% 3 pt shooting, it's a pretty bad statistical profile.

Yeah, I've glossed over those things with Harvey because I really wanted him to play more and thought he had great potential.

But every time I would look at his rebound rate I would get sad because theres really no reason for it to be that low.

 

[sedziobs]

Harvey has more scoring potential than anyone else on this team. He likely needed until his JR to show they off his skills.

I agree with this, and I've said I thought he would become our best player. I definitely wouldn't want him forced out (or anyone else).

I was surprised that he would have bad advanced stats this year, but it makes sense when you dig a little. The only things he's done well statistically are limit turnovers and shoot the three. That looks good for ORtg. The things he's not done well at (rebounding, assists, steals) show up in PER and point to a lack of effort. But he has tons of potential.

 

[cincyguy13]

I agree with this, and I've said I thought he would become our best player. I definitely wouldn't want him forced out (or anyone else).

I was surprised that he would have bad advanced stats this year, but it makes sense when you dig a little. The only things he's done well statistically are limit turnovers and shoot the three. That looks good for ORtg. The things he's not done well at (rebounding, assists, steals) show up in PER and point to a lack of effort. But he has tons of potential.

I think this is how everyone feels. We all want the guy to stay, especially in our position. I think Harvey could be really good but if you’re looking for a reason he wasn’t playing more than we thought he should, this would explain some of it. It still looks bad for brannen that he keeps losing guys, but it’s a little more understandable. The disconnect between the two. Brannen is probably telling him to do these things and he probably isn’t. There is no reason he doesn’t have more assist. He’s a great passer

 

[cincrulz11]

I think this is how everyone feels. We all want the guy to stay, especially in our position. I think Harvey could be really good but if you’re looking for a reason he wasn’t playing more than we thought he should, this would explain some of it. It still looks bad for brannen that he keeps losing guys, but it’s a little more understandable. The disconnect between the two. Brannen is probably telling him to do these things and he probably isn’t. There is no reason he doesn’t have more assist. He’s a great passer

I think the low assist rate comes from he didn't really try to do anything on offense. He'd shoot the wide open 3, or just pass it back out 30 feet from the rim. it wasn't from a selfish standpoint.


actually the more i write and think about it, i guess he was kind of going through the motions out there. unless it was transition, he was great in transition.

 

[sedziobs]

I think the low assist rate comes from he didn't really try to do anything on offense. He'd shoot the wide open 3, or just pass it back out 30 feet from the rim. it wasn't from a selfish standpoint.


actually the more i write and think about it, i guess he was kind of going through the motions out there. unless it was transition, he was great in transition.

Yeah, if he was selfish or not focused he would have turnovers and fouls. I think he just wasn't all that engaged and wasn't giving max effort. It's kind of the opposite of Keith or Tari, who have great effort but are lacking in focus.

 

[cincyguy13]

Yeah, if he was selfish or not focused he would have turnovers and fouls. I think he just wasn't all that engaged and wasn't giving max effort. It's kind of the opposite of Keith or Tari, who have great effort but are lacking in focus.

I thought he was a little selfish but I liked it. I thought the team needed that, but I’m also not the coach. He could have been telling him something different for months and Harvey wasn’t listening. I have no idea. I wished they could have figured it out though