Season Updates

[skyblade]

Boals also isn't that impressive, two fifth place finishes with a future NBA guard on the team.

Seems like the smoke yesterday was it's Archie's job to lose. Today it seems like it's Dennis Gates vs Erik Martin.

 

[cincyalum2014]

Boals also isn't that impressive, two fifth place finishes with a future NBA guard on the team.

Seems like the smoke yesterday was it's Archie's job to lose. Today it seems like it's Dennis Gates vs Erik Martin.

Archie is getting paid pretty handsomely from IU, I would assume he could sit a year and get paid and wait until next season for a better opportunity, maybe he’s not to interested with the situation UC is in right now.... just my thought

 

[cincyalum2014]

I am not looking to argue... I really just want to know people think NVE should be the head coach ? My thing with Nick is , yes I’d love to have him on the staff or something but to give him the reins of the team ??? No chance. He was mentioned 2 years ago for the job and he didn’t have his degree then.... what has he done in the last two years other than be a scout for the mavs? Dude still didn’t go get his degree or try to get a coaching gig... he also recruited for texas southern when he was an assistant there for a year and then bolted for an nba scout job or something with the grizzlies. I mean he hasn’t even tried to do anything to enhance his leverage to be hired here other than he was on the team that went to the final 4. I know the argument is look at Penny at Memphis , Penny already had that recruiting pipeline.. I have no idea if NVE can recruit or not. Again not starting an argument I just want to hear some opinions on why he should be the HC

 

[cincyguy13]

I am not looking to argue... I really just want to know people think NVE should be the head coach ? My thing with Nick is , yes I’d love to have him on the staff or something but to give him the reins of the team ??? No chance. He was mentioned 2 years ago for the job and he didn’t have his degree then.... what has he done in the last two years other than be a scout for the mavs? Dude still didn’t go get his degree or try to get a coaching gig... he also recruited for texas southern when he was an assistant there for a year and then bolted for an nba scout job or something with the grizzlies. I mean he hasn’t even tried to do anything to enhance his leverage to be hired here other than he was on the team that went to the final 4. I know the argument is look at Penny at Memphis , Penny already had that recruiting pipeline.. I have no idea if NVE can recruit or not. Again not starting an argument I just want to hear some opinions on why he should be the HC

Yeah, I think people want NVE to be the coach more than he does. He doesn’t seem to have much interest. If the degree thing is real and he knew that two years ago, and still didn’t get it, I’m guessing he isn’t that interested. Let’s be honest, it’s not that hard to get a degree. Most of the classes are online, and if the teachers know who you are they will pass you. It’s not like he’s studying for the BAR exam

 

[cincyguy13]

I’m not sure Erik Martin is the best option but there is something to “keeping in the family”. I don’t think it’s always necessary, but it gets fans and alumni excited. Brings alumi back. And the players know the program and city. There is something to that.

 

[skyblade]

I happen to agree with you on NVE. Though he is finishing his degree this summer, one could argue that he didn't expect the UC job to open up again quite this quickly (no one did).

Still on both Martin and NVE, the question is would they be considered for a coaching job at any other school at/near our level and the answer is a resounding no. Martin isn't even associate HC at WVU, NVE has almost no college coaching experience. If they want to coach here, then go build the resumes that deserve consideration. Former player is not something a resume should need on it to get consideration.

 

[seldompost]

J
On Boals, I think the assumption is he doesn't want to come here. Seems like he wants to be a career OU guy.

That assumption is not correct. He would be interested in UC job.

 

[cincyalum2014]

I happen to agree with you on NVE. Though he is finishing his degree this summer, one could argue that he didn't expect the UC job to open up again quite this quickly (no one did).

Still on both Martin and NVE, the question is would they be considered for a coaching job at any other school at/near our level and the answer is a resounding no. Martin isn't even associate HC at WVU, NVE has almost no college coaching experience. If they want to coach here, then go build the resumes that deserve consideration. Former player is not something a resume should need on it to get consideration.

Same could be said for Savino, would anyone want him as a HC if he wasn’t Mick’s assistant?

 

[skyblade]

That assumption is not correct. He would be interested in UC job.

I'd put Boals in the "hasn't done enough" column. I know that's quite a reach based on how little some other candidates have done. But two 5th place finishes in the MAC just aren't doing it for me.

 

[cincrulz11]

Boals also isn't that impressive, two fifth place finishes with a future NBA guard on the team.

Seems like the smoke yesterday was it's Archie's job to lose. Today it seems like it's Dennis Gates vs Erik Martin.

I’m so against Martin that I’d gladly take Gates if that’s what it’s down to.

And I don’t want Gates.

 

[skyblade]

Same could be said for Savino, would anyone want him as a HC if he wasn’t Mick’s assistant?

Agreed, but Savino is on the edge of moving up, sort of like Gates. Would like to see more, but could argue that he's a guy who may get a good job in a year or two if UCLA's success continues and we are striking early.

Savino has been an associate HC at Rutgers and under Cronin, which is more than Martin can say. If UCLA has a nice run next year (being listed as a top 5 team in a lot of early top 25's), Savino will get interest from other teams.

Gates similarly isn't quite there yet. He puts a whole lot of weight on his resume for this year, a year when his team was the luckiest in CBB (according to kenpom). If he has success next year or especially the next two years, other teams will come calling.

Martin meanwhile isn't going to get interest until he gets some time in as an associate HC. Martin is 5+ years out from other teams being interested in him.

 

[cincyguy13]

Agreed, but Savino is on the edge of moving up, sort of like Gates. Would like to see more, but could argue that he's a guy who may get a good job in a year or two if UCLA's success continues and we are striking early.

Savino is has been an associate HC at Rutgers and under Cronin, which is more than Martin can say. If UCLA has a nice run next year (being listed as a top 5 team in a lot of early top 25's), Savino will get interest from other teams.

Gates similarly isn't quite there yet. He puts a whole lot of weight on his resume for this year, a year when his team was the luckiest in CBB (according to kenpom). If he has success next year or especially the next two years, other teams will come calling.

Martin meanwhile isn't going to get interest until he gets some time in as an associate HC. Martin is 5+ years out from other teams being interested in him.

Gates has been the assistant at FSU the last 10 years. They’ve been more successful than any cronin team aside from this year. He was also a head coach the last 2 years. Explain why savino is more qualified than him again?

 

[skyblade]

I'm not sure who I want at this point. Every resume seems to be lacking in some way.

You either take a guy with little to no HC experience, you take a retread who failed once at the high-major level or you take Scott Nagy.

I'm not really a big Scott Nagy fan, though I am surprised he hasn't gotten more talk. He's a local veteran coach with a pretty successful low-major career.

My favorite John Jakus hasn't gotten any smoke.

Jerome Tang Baylor's associate HC has some smoke though. Of the most talked about names (Gates, Miller, Bryce Drew, Martin, NVE, Savino, Tang) I'd take Gates, Savino or Tang and hope for the best.

 

[skyblade]

Gates has been the assistant at FSU the last 10 years. They’ve been more successful than any cronin team aside from this year. He was also a head coach the last 2 years. Explain why savino is more qualified than him again?

Where did I say he's more qualified than Gates? I said they are both more qualified than Martin.

Though if you want a reason, I don't believe Gates was ever an associate HC. He made the jump straight from 3rd/4th assistant to HC (like Martin wants to).

Being an associate HC counts for something. In my mind Gates/Savino are both about equal - not quite qualified enough but given our options I'd take one.

 

[cincyguy13]

I think we put too much stock in head coaching experience. Let’s be real, all these guys have been around the game since they were 5 years old. It’s not rocket science. If you guys like you, they will run through a brick wall for you. Cronin, huggs. If they don’t like you, they will question everything you do. Xs and Os are a small portion of it.

 

[skyblade]

Gates has been the assistant at FSU the last 10 years. They’ve been more successful than any cronin team aside from this year. He was also a head coach the last 2 years. Explain why savino is more qualified than him again?

Gates joined FSU in 2011-12, in the 8 years he was there, they had 4 NCAA tournament appearances, one sweet 16 and one elite eight. In those 8 years UC went to 8 NCAA tournaments with one sweet 16.

Does the one elite eight outweigh four NCAA tournament appearances is your mind? If you ask me, UC was the more successful team.

 

[sedziobs]

his team was the luckiest in CBB (according to kenpom).

The Kenpom luck stat isn't properly named in my opinion. It doesn't necessarily mean luck as we understand it. It measures how far a team's actual record is from their expected record based on scoring margin over the season (pythagorean record in nerd lingo). UC was the 11th luckiest team last year, mostly because we got blown out several times which threw our scoring margin out of whack. We were 7-6 in games decided by two possessions (6 pts or less). A high luck rating can be due to lucky breaks at the end of games, but just as much due to good execution in tight games and getting the score run up in losses.

Part of Cleveland St's high luck rating is they were 9-3 in two possession games. It's hard to say how much of that is luck and how much is good late game execution. They also lost to Ohio by 54 and to Wright St by 36. That's the other part that pushed them to the #1 luck rating.

 

[skyblade]

I think we put too much stock in head coaching experience. Let’s be real, all these guys have been around the game since they were 5 years old. It’s not rocket science. If you guys like you, they will run through a brick wall for you. Cronin, huggs. If they don’t like you, they will question everything you do. Xs and Os are a small portion of it.

I think HC experience matters quite a bit.

A great assistant coach can be really good at one thing (X's and O's, recruiting, player relationships, player development) and have a lot of success. A great HC needs to be good/great at everything (and also good at delegating).

Look at Brannen, he will probably be a great assistant coach. Has the X's and O's down and good enough at recruiting. As an assistant coach, player relationships can be somebody elses problem. But when it comes to relationships as a HC, well we saw the result.

 

[cincyguy13]

Gates joined FSU in 2011-12, in the 8 years he was there, they had 4 NCAA tournament appearances, one sweet 16 and one elite eight. In those 8 years UC went to 8 NCAA tournaments with one sweet 16.

Does the one elite eight outweigh four NCAA tournament appearances is your mind? If you ask me, UC was the more successful team.

FSU has been one of the best programs in the best conferences. I think that’s pretty good. No matter how you rank it, the fact is gates was at a program that had a lot of success to go along with turning a program around as a head coach. I’m just not sure how that resume isn’t better than savino.

If you polled the national media, I’d guess 99% of them take FSU over the last 8 years

 

[skyblade]

FSU has been one of the best programs in the best conferences. I think that’s pretty good. No matter how you rank it, the fact is gates was at a program that had a lot of success to go along with turning a program around as a head coach. I’m just not sure how that resume isn’t better than savino

Savino has 4 years as an associate HC, Gates has 0. Savino has 9 straight NCAA tournaments and now a final 4 under Mick, Gates has 5 NCAA tournaments and an elite eight.

Gates coached in a better conference, but Cincinnati was the best team in the American. Gates has two years HC experience, Savino has 0.

If I had to pick, I'd put Gates resume a bit above Savino's. But I could see how Savino would be preferred based on his time here. I wouldn't be upset with either of them.