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I believe Harvey is a good player...but there is something (maybe more than 1) that he wasn't doing for the coach and/or the team to not be getting more minutes. I don't know what it was but I have my guesses. If Brannen is preaching team selfless basketball I would imagine he wants to see some assists out there. Harvey has 8 on the season. Is he happy for other players successes out there? IDK

But when you see walkons and frosh getting playing time you are licking your chops to get back out there and then Mason comes along and gets more minutes. You either do what is being asked or you quit so you can do what you want somewhere else. I can tell you Cronin would not have let the player do anything other than what was being asked.

In the end the player is not the coach and they don't get to call the shots. I don't like the players leaving trend but the coach must stick to his guns to have any respectability to the rest of the team. That will either end up working out or it can bite him...but he has to do it either way.
 
cincyguy13 said:
Brannen has brought in a lot of talent in a year and a half. Davenport, Eason, Harvey, mason, dejulius, even gabe was higher rated. There are 5-6 players that at least could be very solid players. Eason and Harvey could be really good. That’s hard to do in the limited time his been here. The problem is two of them just left.

I agree, next year is a big year for brannen. Some improvements have to be made
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Again, it's all about percentages. Any semi-competent coach is going to get a quality player now and then. But look at Brannen's recruits. By my criteria.

Didn't/don't belong at this level: Sorolla, Rap and McNeal.

May not belong at this level (up for debate, but none of them will be more than a solid role player): Vogt, Mason, Lakhin and Saunders.

Solid players who probably won't become a star: Jaevin, Gabe, MAW and Davenport.

Potential stars: DD, Harvey and Eason.

By my count, Brannen has recruited 7 quality players and 7 whom I could do without. A 50% success rate is not nearly good enough. I know there's a lot of Mason love right now, but I don't see him becoming a starter and a 4 year backup is not a quality recruit.

Meanwhile, he alienated Jarron and now Harvey is gone. He's also had a whole host of players leave mid-season - which is not a good look.

I get it, Brannen gets a year three no matter what. But he's on thin ice at this point. He hasn't done well enough so far and needs to blow it out of the water with recruiting this spring. He also needs to make sure Eason stays.

I expect to be back in the NCAA tournament next year - or at least very close - anything less is unacceptable in my book. Considering we need to add at minimum two quality bigs and a quality wing player, that's a big ask, especially considering Brannen's history at recruiting transfers.
 
I would like to see Tari stay also but only if he buys in and has discipline etc that a coach would ask for. If he's the pouting type it's not going to work out for him. There are coaches out there that will just let him do his own thing. There are probably some who could have managed expectations better IDK.

But you need the ALL IN guys! The coach has a system that will only work if the whole team plays it the same way. There are plenty of points to go around when the ball is being shared. The best players will get more chances at the end of clocks to play make. Keith and DD have been given that role and a little was going to Harvey for a while.

The system is not operating even close to how CJB would like to see it...so I guess it's also hard for players to see the vision. But they have to trust that the coaches overall plan will work if they do the things he says. It's a long process to perfect. I don't think Harvey saw the vision or how he could end up getting 16-20 ppg while sharing the ball as well.
 
skyblade said:
Again, it's all about percentages. Any semi-competent coach is going to get a quality player now and then. But look at Brannen's recruits. By my criteria.

Didn't/don't belong at this level: Sorolla, Rap and McNeal.

May not belong at this level (up for debate, but none of them will be more than a solid role player): Vogt, Mason, Lakhin and Saunders.

Solid players who probably won't become a star: Jaevin, Gabe, MAW and Davenport.

Potential stars: DD, Harvey and Eason.

By my count, Brannen has recruited 7 quality players and 7 whom I could do without. A 50% success rate is not nearly good enough. I know there's a lot of Mason love right now, but I don't see him becoming a starter and a 4 year backup is not a quality recruit.

Meanwhile, he alienated Jarron and now Harvey is gone. He's also had a whole host of players leave mid-season - which is not a good look.

I get it, Brannen gets a year three no matter what. But he's on thin ice at this point. He hasn't done well enough so far and needs to blow it out of the water with recruiting this spring. He also needs to make sure Eason stays.

I expect to be back in the NCAA tournament next year - or at least very close - anything less is unacceptable in my book. Considering we need to add at minimum two quality bigs and a quality wing player, that's a big ask, especially considering Brannen's history at recruiting transfers.
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Way too early to tell on some of these guys to say what their floor and ceiling will be.
 
skyblade said:
I agree with this, Brannen seems more concerned with them running his system, than he is about what they can do with their talent within his system.

Brannen seems to want to be like those elite mid-majors, a bunch of low talent level, but real-smart basketball players who do well because they all play together in the system. Then they run into a team of 4/5-stars and get crushed because they don't have the talent level to compete.

I'm not happy with Brannen so far and not optimistic given his history with transfers. Maybe Eason stays, Brannen crushes the transfer market and we turn it around. If that doesn't happen, I'd be happy with waving goodbye to Brannen at the end of next season.
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I'm not sold on this... You can win with high level system basketball. Villanova. Butler. Creighton. Etc.

But do agree. This is not UC brand and the turnover has become alarming. John needs to learn to mesh the two styles better... And a key peice to the is Tari imo.
 
I don't think any of us will ever know exactly why Harvey left. Regardless, we have to find a shooting guard and a center who can come in and play right away next season or it's going to be another down year. Another year as bad as this one puts the program on thin ice, unless we land some top talent for 2022-23 or there are signs the young guys are ready to break out.

DD, Davenport, and Eason are a decent core to build around, but we can't have a bunch of middling first and second year talent getting starters minutes at the other two spots and expect to be competitive. I know MAW will be in his third year, but his usage rate shows he isn't really a starter. Harvey had the potential. The only other options are the Madsens developing extremely quickly or Williams sticking around, both of which seem unlikely.

A lot is riding on this upcoming spring.
 
skyblade said:
Again, it's all about percentages. Any semi-competent coach is going to get a quality player now and then. But look at Brannen's recruits. By my criteria.

Didn't/don't belong at this level: Sorolla, Rap and McNeal.

May not belong at this level (up for debate, but none of them will be more than a solid role player): Vogt, Mason, Lakhin and Saunders.

Solid players who probably won't become a star: Jaevin, Gabe, MAW and Davenport.

Potential stars: DD, Harvey and Eason.

By my count, Brannen has recruited 7 quality players and 7 whom I could do without. A 50% success rate is not nearly good enough. I know there's a lot of Mason love right now, but I don't see him becoming a starter and a 4 year backup is not a quality recruit.

Meanwhile, he alienated Jarron and now Harvey is gone. He's also had a whole host of players leave mid-season - which is not a good look.

I get it, Brannen gets a year three no matter what. But he's on thin ice at this point. He hasn't done well enough so far and needs to blow it out of the water with recruiting this spring. He also needs to make sure Eason stays.

I expect to be back in the NCAA tournament next year - or at least very close - anything less is unacceptable in my book. Considering we need to add at minimum two quality bigs and a quality wing player, that's a big ask, especially considering Brannen's history at recruiting transfers.
Click to expand...

I know you just made the percentage thing up but what do you think cronin should percentage was? Do I need to make a list on his misses? Do you remember how many misses he had? Don’t even have to go back that far. Not starting the cronin vs brannen thing but no coach in America is going to hit on every single player. Cal and coach k miss on players and they can literally have whoever they want. I thought most people on this board agreed that getting 1 starter a year was pretty good. Too me, brannen has done that and more. I guess the goal post has changed on that now since hes done that. But you also have to keep them
 
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waterhead said:
I would like to see Tari stay also but only if he buys in and has discipline etc that a coach would ask for. If he's the pouting type it's not going to work out for him. There are coaches out there that will just let him do his own thing. There are probably some who could have managed expectations better IDK.

But you need the ALL IN guys! The coach has a system that will only work if the whole team plays it the same way. There are plenty of points to go around when the ball is being shared. The best players will get more chances at the end of clocks to play make. Keith and DD have been given that role and a little was going to Harvey for a while.

The system is not operating even close to how CJB would like to see it...so I guess it's also hard for players to see the vision. But they have to trust that the coaches overall plan will work if they do the things he says. It's a long process to perfect. I don't think Harvey saw the vision or how he could end up getting 16-20 ppg while sharing the ball as well.
Click to expand...

I've heard Calipari and Krzyzewski talk about the fact that with 5 stars the hardest part of coaching is personality management. You get a guy who is used to being able to dominate the opposing teams and being the star of his team and now he's one of 10 former stars competing for minutes.

Then you've got to actually coach the guy. It's a delicate balance of getting coaching done, but also being willing to have some give to keep the player happy.

The one size fits all method Brannen seems to bring, seems to work great for some guys. It seems to work better for a 2/3 star like Mason or Saunders isn't used to getting special treatment.

I don't think any coach deserves more than 3 years here to get to the NCAA tournament. We weren't a program that had fallen apart and needed a complete rebuild. We won 90 games in the 3 years before Brannen came here. If he can't have us in the NCAA tournament by year three, he should go to a mid-major that's willing to be more patient.

If the system is still a long ways off, it's firmly on Brannen for failing to recruits guys who could have us there. Maybe I'm looking too much into the future. But can anyone honestly say the expect us to be a top three AAC team or an NCAA tournament team next year? Because I can't. I would love for Brannen to prove me wrong over the next year.

If Eason leaves, I could see us being worse next year than we are this year.
 
history says CJB and his teams are slow starters. It takes him a good chunk of the season to scrap his original style and go for what suits the players better. He did it at NKU, he did it last year and so far this year the same thing happened. His teams just start slow. Is that a product of CJB refusing to adapt to what he has until he absolutely has to?

Which brings up the recruiting thing. CJB has no recruits for 2021. And the reasoning has been, if he cannot see someone in person he wont recruit them. Except the 5 or so takes that have all gone and signed with other teams. Can he not create any bonds with kids via zoom or just simple phone calls? Is this just CJB refusing to adapt to the times until its too late again? Recruiting in the spring/summer will be the same as right now.
 
cincyguy13 said:
I know you just made the percentage thing up but what do you think cronin should percentage was? Do I need to make a list on his misses? Do you remember how many misses he had? Don’t even have to go back that far. Not starting the cronin vs brannen thing but no coach in America is going to hit on every single player. Cal and coach k miss on players and they can literally have whoever they want. I thought most people on this board agreed that getting 1 starter a year was pretty good. Too me, brannen has done that and more. I guess the goal post has changed on that now since hes done that. But you also have to keep them
Click to expand...

I think your going to have to go back quite far to find a time when 50% or less of Cronin's players weren't quality players. Every coach is going to miss sometimes, but Brannen misses more than his fair share.

Where do you get 1 starter a year from? I want 1 star/potential NBA player per year. That's what Cronin was doing and he was supposedly bad at recruiting. In the long term, I'd like to average one guy per year going to the NBA (or at least the G-league). With Harvey gone, Eason is the only potential NBA player Brannen recruited on this roster.
 
skyblade said:
I think your going to have to go back quite far to find a time when 50% or less of Cronin's players weren't quality players. Every coach is going to miss sometimes, but Brannen misses more than his fair share.

Where do you get 1 starter a year from? I want 1 star/potential NBA player per year. That's what Cronin was doing and he was supposedly bad at recruiting. In the long term, I'd like to average one guy per year going to the NBA (or at least the G-league). With Harvey gone, Eason is the only potential NBA player Brannen recruited on this roster.
Click to expand...
When did cronin send one player a year to the nba? When did that happen. Clark, sk, Jacob got drafted. There’s 3 in 12 years. What am I missing?

Also half the roster that cronin just recruited went to mid majors. No high major wanted them. That literally just happened. Are we counting those as hits now?

It doesn’t really matter. The situation needs to get better. We both agree on that
 
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I wouldn’t mind a reporter asking brannen what is actually going on. I doubt it will happen but itd be nice. If it was Kentucky, they would ask.
 
I know everyone has staked out positions on when a coach deserves to be fired. Not everything has to be framed to fit that narrative. No one really cares if we think Brannen should be fired or not. It was the same with Cronin. We can talk about the team without each poster trying to persuade everyone that their position on Brannen is right.
 
cincyguy13 said:
When did cronin send one player a year to the nba? When did that happen. Clark, sk, Jacob got drafted. There’s 3 in 12 years. What am I missing?

Also half the roster that cronin just recruited went to mid majors. No high major wanted them. That literally just happened. Are we counting those as hits now?
Click to expand...

Scott, Clark, Cumberland, Jacob, SK, Caupain, even Kyle Washington. All of these guys have played in at least the G-league. Clark, Jacob, SK and Caupain have played at least some NBA games. Scott and Cumberland may play in the NBA at some point.

And don't forget, Cronin was supposedly bad at recruiting, so Brannen should be able to do better.

Who on this roster looks like they will play in at least the G-league and preferably the NBA? In my book, Eason is the only good bet and even he has a long ways to go. Davenport could have a shot if he continues to improve.
 
skyblade said:
Scott, Clark, Cumberland, Jacob, SK, Caupain, even Kyle Washington. All of these guys have played in at least the G-league. Clark, Jacob, SK and Caupain have played at least some NBA games. Scott and Cumberland may play in the NBA at some point.

And don't forget, Cronin was supposedly bad at recruiting, so Brannen should be able to do better.

Who on this roster looks like they will play in at least the G-league and preferably the NBA? In my book, Eason is the only good bet and even he has a long ways to go. Davenport could have a shot if he continues to improve.
Click to expand...
I think you are counting too many guys to fit your argument. Kyle Washington? I guess you could count Shaq Thomas by that logic. I think he played in the g-league. No one would call him a star, but maybe you would since cronin recruited him.
 

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