Seniors and Juniors

[Nomadic1]

You make very excellent points. Probably not the way I would have stated it but excellent points all the same.

Yeah.. I'm sorry, I just get annoyed when people think it's soley the university's fault. This area, while it does have it's positives, has a lot of unnecessary, energy/happiness draining qualities to it at times. While logistics do dictate how much a city can develop, antipathy toward progress keeps it from even trying. Most of it is a matter of attitude and perception carried by a certain demographic living in southwest Ohio but I don't want to get any more specific than that.

When a major conference considers us, it's not just the athletics. It's the revenue, whether people will want to come here, whether the people here have an apetite for college athletics and would consider coming to the universities in the conference etc. Pinning this on Cronin is non-sense.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

You do realize that when your getting a 1 to 4 seed almost every year, that there are very few opportunities to beat a higher seed. When you do get an opportunity, you're playing a 1 or 2 seed which is far more difficult than the Cronin teams have with the lower seeds we tend to get now and having to upset a middle of the pack seed.

Remember, Mick was going to take the program to the next step. You can argue that academically, that may have happened, but it certainly hasn't come close to happening on the court. I sat there the other night looking up at a pretty empty upper deck playing an ACC team and I was wondering where all those fans have gone.

You made a key point above when you praised him for winning with inferior talent. That is a good thing. But the fact that we always have inferior talent is not. When your accomplishments are winning with inferior talent, beating a higher seed in the NCAA tournament, and graduating your players, is that the next level we all wanted 7 years ago?

what is best beating higher seeds or getting knocked out as a higher seed by a lower seed? Seems that happened quite a few times prior to Mick rebuilding the program in BE. Mick has elelavated the talent level and as he continues to have success he will have access to better talent. Attendance is increasing.

 

[ralph1950]

what is best beating higher seeds or getting knocked out as a higher seed by a lower seed? Seems that happened quite a few times prior to Mick rebuilding the program in BE. Mick has elelavated the talent level and as he continues to have success he will have access to better talent. Attendance is increasing.

The deck is stacked against non power 5 conferences. The revenue disparity, which provides the P5 with the cash to provide better training facilities, better player lounges, better player lodging, etc. takes it toll. Very hard to compete with schools getting $30 to $40 million a year from TV when you are getting $5 million a year. It has been a long while since a non BCS school won the NCAA Tourney, that trend is not going to end anytime soon. It is unlikely that a non P5 school will win the NCAA Tourney in the future.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

The deck is stacked against non power 5 conferences. The revenue disparity, which provides the P5 with the cash to provide better training facilities, better player lounges, better player lodging, etc. takes it toll. Very hard to compete with schools getting $30 to $40 million a year from TV when you are getting $5 million a year. It has been a long while since a non BCS school won the NCAA Tourney, that trend is not going to end anytime soon. It is unlikely that a non P5 school will win the NCAA Tourney in the future.

agree

 

[david aka the TYZ]

Yeah.. I'm sorry, I just get annoyed when people think it's soley the university's fault. This area, while it does have it's positives, has a lot of unnecessary, energy/happiness draining qualities to it at times. While logistics do dictate how much a city can develop, antipathy toward progress keeps it from even trying. Most of it is a matter of attitude and perception carried by a certain demographic living in southwest Ohio but I don't want to get any more specific than that.

When a major conference considers us, it's not just the athletics. It's the revenue, whether people will want to come here, whether the people here have an apetite for college athletics and would consider coming to the universities in the conference etc. Pinning this on Cronin is non-sense.

I agree with both your posts (except I don't see a problem with supporting the Reds and/or Bengals). People think UC is to blame for it's fortune. This town flat out doesn't support it. Fans are to blame. Fans that sit at home and wait for us to be elite before they'll offer support. That simply won't happen. Fans that expected Cronin to land blue chippers to a crap program. As you win you can sell your program to recruits, not before. We are seeing the natural and logical transition of this as our classes miraculously have gotten better now that we've returned to the tournament. And fans that blame Cronin for us not being in a power 5 conference are just 100% completely clueless. Revenue and markets drive the push to a power 5 conference and this town and its fans have long shown that they won't support UC to be part of that discussion.

 

[waterhead]

I'm not sure I buy the fact that he is recuiting this way intentionally, solely for the sake of the University's reputation. We have to just accept the fact that we're appearing more like a mid-major program today and doing it in a mid-major conference. While fan support was a little better last year, It certainly was far from good. I agree these last two recruiting classes have shown improvement and I really like what I'm seeing so far this year. Mick's job is safe, but we're 7 years in and we need to do something substantial soon or we'll just get lost in mediocrity. We shouldn't be happy where we are today. Major college sports doesn't feel we are worthy to be a part of their fraternity and some of that is certainly on Mick. We might not have the thug reputation anymore, but we also don't have a Top 25 reputation either. We can't be happy with just being pretty good.

I wasn't referring to his recruiting intentions in regards to putting the university first. I was speaking more to the way he handled the Xavier debacle and how he made it clear to the players they will represent the university in the proper way. Grades and graduation have also been much better.

We all want to be in the top 10 conversation. Because of what Mick has done to gradually improve our success starting from literal SCRATCH...I am willing to give him the next 4 years to get it done especially since I believe he has had IMO his best back to back recruiting classes.

We finally have BB talent DEPTH with height and athletecism at the 3 and 4 spots rather than working with undersized wings, guards or offensive projects. We were working with Parker, JJ, and Sanders for quite a while at 3 and 4. Parker was undersized and JJ was a project. Hey Parker was great to have but he didn't create mismatches (like Lawrence, Thomas, Rubles, and Clark can). JJ had plenty of athletecism for our D but little to offer on O (like the above metioned names). Adding quality and depth to these positions has allowed JJ to find a home where he belongs. The lack of these players was allowing defense to flood the perimeter and mitigate what our guards could do because we had almost ZERO offensive presence inside the perimeter.

We know he can recruit combo guards but we have clearly added two of our most athletic combos in recent memory with probably improved BB skills over guys like Parker and Dixon (two of our main minute guys lately). If you thought the Bearcats under Cronin were hell on D...just wait to see what KJ and DM bring to the table.

If Cronin can somehow manage to mix in a stud defensive C, a stud PG and a stud pure shooter with our next 3 recruits (we might already have some of that who knows) I think we can get back in the perrenial powerhouse conversation maybe not this year or next (since we will be very young) but I could see it start to happen the year after.

 

[L-T]

what is best beating higher seeds or getting knocked out as a higher seed by a lower seed? Seems that happened quite a few times prior to Mick rebuilding the program in BE. Mick has elelavated the talent level and as he continues to have success he will have access to better talent. Attendance is increasing.

In 7 years, we've been to the tournament 3 times, losing in the 2nd round twice and making the Sweet 16 once. We've had no all-americans, put just one player in the NBA, earned only two 6 seeds and one 10 seed in the tournament. Our offensive average has been in the mid to low 60s during 5 of his years and in the 50s 2 of the 7 years. Those 2 years in the 50s have occurred in 2 of the last 3 years. We recruit players who can't shoot, big men that nobody has heard of and who are unrated. We play ACC teams and have half the arena empty. We have been relagated to a Mid-Major Conference. The city we represent has lost interest and based on the above, are you surprised?

To counter those facts, we graduate our players, play good defense, are now having winning seasons, and have beaten one higher seeded team in the tournament.

If that all excites you guys, then thats great. I'm enjoying this year's team so far and have my fingers crossed that the future is far better than these first 7 years because this stretch has been painful to me.

 

[Scheids21]

In 7 years, we've been to the tournament 3 times, losing in the 2nd round twice and making the Sweet 16 once. We've had no all-americans, put just one player in the NBA, earned only two 6 seeds and one 10 seed in the tournament. Our offensive average has been in the mid to low 60s during 5 of his years and in the 50s 2 of the 7 years. Those 2 years in the 50s have occurred in 2 of the last 3 years. We recruit players who can't shoot, big men that nobody has heard of and who are unrated. We play ACC teams and have half the arena empty. We have been relagated to a Mid-Major Conference. The city we represent has lost interest and based on the above, are you surprised?

To counter those facts, we graduate our players, play good defense, are now having winning seasons, and have beaten one higher seeded team in the tournament.

If that all excites you guys, then thats great. I'm enjoying this year's team so far and have my fingers crossed that the future is far better than these first 7 years because this stretch has been painful to me.

Not to nit-pick, but saying we have been to 3 tournaments in 7 years is misleading. We have been to 3 straight NCAA tournaments.

 

[L-T]

Not to nit-pick, but saying we have been to 3 tournaments in 7 years is misleading. We have been to 3 straight NCAA tournaments.

Lol! This is the only website anywhere that would accuse someone of misleading people with the facts and the truth. To your credit, what you said is fact as well. We have been to 3 straight tournaments indeed. That is definitely a good thing.

 

[waterhead]

Not to nit-pick, but saying we have been to 3 tournaments in 7 years is misleading. We have been to 3 straight NCAA tournaments.

I would say it's denitely misleading or disingenuous because we have been there the last three years and the first three were coming off building from scratch with suspect talent and hardly any depth. Out of the years we could reasonably expect to be in the tourney we are 3 of 4.

Fortunately L-T is not fooling anyone in here.

 

[bearcat jeff]

In 7 years, we've been to the tournament 3 times, losing in the 2nd round twice and making the Sweet 16 once. We've had no all-americans, put just one player in the NBA, earned only two 6 seeds and one 10 seed in the tournament. Our offensive average has been in the mid to low 60s during 5 of his years and in the 50s 2 of the 7 years. Those 2 years in the 50s have occurred in 2 of the last 3 years. We recruit players who can't shoot, big men that nobody has heard of and who are unrated. We play ACC teams and have half the arena empty. We have been relagated to a Mid-Major Conference. The city we represent has lost interest and based on the above, are you surprised?

To counter those facts, we graduate our players, play good defense, are now having winning seasons, and have beaten one higher seeded team in the tournament.

If that all excites you guys, then thats great. I'm enjoying this year's team so far and have my fingers crossed that the future is far better than these first 7 years because this stretch has been painful to me.

Bob Huggins lost in the 1st or 2nd round 10 times in 14 trips to the NCAA. If that's not underachieving then please tell me what is. 71% of the time he never made it past the first weekend with all that talent and high seeds. Perhaps now that puts the truth of his success in perspective.

 

[L-T]

I would say it's denitely misleading or disingenuous because we have been there the last three years and the first three were coming off building from scratch with suspect talent and hardly any depth. Out of the years we could reasonably expect to be in the tourney we are 3 of 4.

Fortunately L-T is not fooling anyone in here.

WH, there is certainly no chance to fool anyone in here. This is a friendly little faternity of people who think alike, feel their opinion is the way all UC fans think, and don't want to hear from anyone who thinks differently. Fortunately, college basketball has a foolproof way to show who's correct. It's called "Attendance"! The paying public will show you how the majority think and it's vastly different than this site would want you to believe.

I'm trying to cheer for the team while I write this. Loving Caupain & Lawrence today. The future is looking bright and if this is where we're headed, attendance will take care of itself. I love the Cats and always have my butt in the stands every game. Don't ever mistake me for being a non-fan. I just call it as I see it. Sorry I can't always agree with everyone.

 

[L-T]

Bob Huggins lost in the 1st or 2nd round 10 times in 14 trips to the NCAA. If that's not underachieving then please tell me what is. 71% of the time he never made it past the first weekend with all that talent and high seeds. Perhaps now that puts the truth of his success in perspective.

Lol. Ok BJ, I'm at the game so count on me providing some percentages of my own later to put the truth of Mick's success in perspective. Warning, you may not like them!

 

[bearcat jeff]

Lol. Ok BJ, I'm at the game so count on me providing some percentages of my own later to put the truth of Mick's success in perspective. Warning, you may not like them!

Can't even begin to compare what Mick inherited to Bob Huggins. This is a fact you have continually ignored for years. Sorry to tell the truth about your delusions about your uncle Bob. He has to be related the way you cling to him and the past. Hey, how about joining the rest of us in 2013? Bob's been gone for years now.

 

[waterhead]

Lol. Ok BJ, I'm at the game so count on me providing some percentages of my own later to put the truth of Mick's success in perspective. Warning, you may not like them!

Isn't it possible to say we have had two good coaches without coming up with reasons to bash one or the other?

The fact is they have both been good. We can give Cronin more time but whatever he accomplishes will never take away from what Huggins did for this program...even if we happen to win a National Championship.

 

[bearcat jeff]

Isn't it possible to say we have had two good coaches without coming up with reasons to bash one or the other?

The fact is they have both been good. We can give Cronin more time but whatever he accomplishes will never take away from what Huggins did for this program...even if we happen to win a National Championship.

Exactly what I said earlier. I still love Huggs. It's apples to oranges to compare. From the leagues they coached in to how they started their careers at Cincinnati and the climate.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Exactly what I said earlier. I still love Huggs. It's apples to oranges to compare. From the leagues they coached in to how they started their careers at Cincinnati and the climate.

couldn't agree more Jeff.

 

[CaptDale]

Can't even begin to compare what Mick inherited to Bob Huggins. This is a fact you have continually ignored for years. Sorry to tell the truth about your delusions about your uncle Bob. He has to be related the way you cling to him and the past. Hey, how about joining the rest of us in 2013? Bob's been gone for years now.

Uncle Bob would have won it all in 2000 had KMart not broken his leg. It was a lock.

 

[bearcat jeff]

Uncle Bob would have won it all in 2000 had KMart not broken his leg. It was a lock.

I agree they likely would have but it is NEVER a lock.

 

[CaptDale]

I agree they likely would have but it is NEVER a lock.

That's true. Never say NEVER. But it was as close as I've seen from our house. That team was cohesive (seems to be my favorite word for what to look for on the floor).