SK left of top 25 Wooden midseason award

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UCBearcats said:
I disagree that you need those things to have a high level of success but that's fine.

Bottom line is you aren't going to get those things unless you achieve a level of success that brings the excitement back to UC hoops. The university wouldn't be spending money on Nippert renovation if the football team were 7-4 every year and made a mid level bowl game. It took several years of sustained success on a large scale to get to this point with football. We achieved top national rankings, won multiple conference championships and made two BCS bowl games. All things that anyone would have told you were impossible before Brian Kelly stepped foot on this campus.

It's kind of like the chicken and the egg argument only there is a definitive answer to this question. I'd love to have all those things you listed above but we aren't going to get them until this program proves it's worth. Maybe to some of you it has but obviously there are a lot of people out there who aren't convinced. Most importantly, the big donors, the guys who have the planes and rent out the luxury suites and support the program financially aren't sold yet either.

Currently we're on the right track to getting to that point. Probably more now than at any point in Mick's tenure here at UC things are looking hopeful. Mick needs to sustain this level though and show that he can continue to improve. Once he proves it and sustains his success he'll get the buy in from the community. Once that happens you'll start to see him get the things you've listed above.
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The univeristy is spending money on Nippert as an investment to get to a P5 conference and out of the AAC. The team went to a mid level bowl the past 2 years. All those years in the Big East and UL, Pitt, Syracuse, Rutgers all passed UC up leaving UC and UConn in the AAC. UL left a trail of smoke and we can't see them anymore, literally after this year.

If we are on track then why was there an article a few weeks ago about Mick saying he needs fan support? That even the university across town has things that he doesn't? How can he recruit and get these top tier players when he doesn't have the fan base, facilities to compete? He will get one here and there like Lance and Lawrence but to get them on a regular basis Mick needs better resources. Bringing a recruit to 5/3 then having that same recruit go to Fed Ex arena or MSG to visit St.J where do you think they will be more impressed?

The basketball team and Cronin have proved their worth. They have been to 3 straight NCAA's and the donors and fans are still not interested. Indiana went through tough times, their fans never stopped showing, their donors never stopped giving, they got top flight recruits.
 
Patrick Bateman said:
Ok, Rupp is D-League arena. UK's facilities are light years ahead of UC.
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Have you seen UC's facilities, other than 5/3 itself? The practice gym, the weight room, etc? They are first class facilities. What makes Rupp good is the fact that it seats so many and the fans there go nuts. You ever been in the rafters at Rupp? My guess is no.

And Cameron Indoor? What about that screams NBA arena?
 
TheLongHaul said:
Have you seen UC's facilities, other than 5/3 itself? The practice gym, the weight room, etc? They are first class facilities. What makes Rupp good is the fact that it seats so many and the fans there go nuts. You ever been in the rafters at Rupp? My guess is no.

And Cameron Indoor? What about that screams NBA arena?
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If you asked any top 25 recruit if he would rather play at fifth third or cameron indoor, what would his answer be?

Cameron, what is 5/3. That would be answer

Yes I have seen the facilities. Again if the facilities were that great why would Mick say in an article a few weeks ago that they would like more character in their practice facilities. It is just a court, nothing more. Weight room, yes state of the art.
 
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TheLongHaul said:
Have you seen UC's facilities, other than 5/3 itself? The practice gym, the weight room, etc? They are first class facilities. What makes Rupp good is the fact that it seats so many and the fans there go nuts. You ever been in the rafters at Rupp? My guess is no.

And Cameron Indoor? What about that screams NBA arena?
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Haven't seen them myself but I've heard UC's locker room is very second rate.
 
Patrick Bateman said:
Ok, Rupp is D-League arena. UK's facilities are light years ahead of UC.
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Patrick was at the game last night. Nice crowd over 10,000 and I got to tell you it was frezzing. It cost me 10.00 bucks to park in a lot accross from where the old Holy Grail was located. Walked up to Martinos and had a meatball sub chatted with 2 UC fans who Coach womens High School BB in NKY.They love MC and think he is doing a great job.

I really think the fan base is starting to realize what a fine job coach is doing. Average Attendence will climb again this year. MC is making a difference. The other thing that people don't like to hear when comparing our success in BB VS FB is the level of competition in BB was far more difficult. Not nearly apples and oranges. Not down playing the success all the good Coaches had in FB but they didn't have to overcome a 2 year break in recruiting. As well as a fan basse that was completely disenchanted with the dismissal of a well liked Coach.That on top of entering the toughest BB league in the country.What Cronin has done is nothing short of sensational. Everyone outside the City understands this and it seems more in the city are starting to realize what they have. Give it time its happening. Been giving a lot of thought to this subject lately.

1. I can't blame the fan base for the terrible way the whole debacle was handled.

2. Regardless who replaced Bob he was not going to be received with open arms. Especially replacing him with someone who was thought to have abandonned the program when he was here. Many thought this was done to embarass the outgoing Coach. The other thought is it was done on the cheap.

3. Many fans left the building and I really can't blame them. The whole thing was a nightmare. The fans felt like they were being punished and quite frankly they were. Bob's behavior and the administration's handling of the situation was deplorable. It divided a very passionate fan base.

4. All that is water under the bridge. MC has performed better then many many many fans could ever had expected. Myself included. Quite frankly if truth be known the Board would probably admit to surprise with how much MC has accomplished. I really think intitially the BOT looked at MC as the fall guy. Like Nancy Z bring her in, do the dirty work and let her walk away taking the baggage with her. MC's success has changed their plans. I mean really what on MC's resume said he was a guy who could take a broken program to the level it was and turn it around in the toughest league in the country. They were replacing a legend with a guy from Murray St. How did they think the fan base was going to react. He has fooled them.

5. My last point. Cronin has worked hard and made tons of progress. He was advised by many to not take the job. The situation was a career killer.No way can you turn it around, little funds, fractured fan base and outdated facilities. Throw in the emphisis being diverted from BB to FB and I'm sure there were rumblings concerning conference realignment back then. Well guess what he did take the leap and he proved many wrong even some who proclaimed to be in his corner. The needle is pointing up and I refuse to bail on him now. Have fun debating the games and the coaching decisions but don't question the hard work,expertise and dedication being put forth by Mick Cronin. My fear is he will get tired of beating his head against the wall and leave for a better program. Don't let this happen. The light is shinning at the end of the tunnel. Many programs are looking for guys who can overcome these kind of obstacles. Get to the games and help him finish the job. His kids play their heart out for the University.
 
Patrick Bateman said:
If you asked any top 25 recruit if he would rather play at fifth third or cameron indoor, what would his answer be?

Cameron, what is 5/3. That would be answer

Yes I have seen the facilities. Again if the facilities were that great why would Mick say in an article a few weeks ago that they would like more character in their practice facilities. It is just a court, nothing more. Weight room, yes state of the art.
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And why would they say Cameron? You think it's because it's a better facility?
 
WAITE HOYT 2 said:
Patrick was at the game last night. Nice crowd over 10,000 and I got to tell you it was frezzing. It cost me 10.00 bucks to park in a lot accross from where the old Holy Grail was located. Walked up to Martinos and had a meatball sub chatted with 2 UC fans who Coach womens High School BB in NKY.They love MC and think he is doing a great job.

I really think the fan base is starting to realize what a fine job coach is doing. Average Attendence will climb again this year. MC is making a difference. The other thing that people don't like to hear when comparing our success in BB VS FB is the level of competition in BB was far more difficult. Not nearly apples and oranges. Not down playing the success all the good Coaches had in FB but they didn't have to overcome a 2 year break in recruiting. As well as a fan basse that was completely disenchanted with the dismissal of a well liked Coach.That on top of entering the toughest BB league in the country.What Cronin has done is nothing short of sensational. Everyone outside the City understands this and it seems more in the city are starting to realize what they have. Give it time its happening. Been giving a lot of thought to this subject lately.

1. I can't blame the fan base for the terrible way the whole debacle was handled.

2. Regardless who replaced Bob he was not going to be received with open arms. Especially replacing him with someone who was thought to have abandonned the program when he was here. Many thought this was done to embarass the outgoing Coach. The other thought is it was done on the cheap.

3. Many fans left the building and I really can't blame them. The whole thing was a nightmare. The fans felt like they were being punished and quite frankly they were. Bob's behavior and the administration's handling of the situation was deplorable. It divided a very passionate fan base.

4. All that is water under the bridge. MC has performed better then many many many fans could ever had expected. Myself included. Quite frankly if truth be known the Board would probably admit to surprise with how much MC has accomplished. I really think intitially the BOT looked at MC as the fall guy. Like Nancy Z bring her in, do the dirty work and let her walk away taking the baggage with her. MC's success has changed their plans. I mean really what on MC's resume said he was a guy who could take a broken program to the level it was and turn it around in the toughest league in the country. They were replacing a legend with a guy from Murray St. How did they think the fan base was going to react. He has fooled them.

5. My last point. Cronin has worked hard and made tons of progress. He was advised by many to not take the job. The situation was a career killer.No way can you turn it around, little funds, fractured fan base and outdated facilities. Throw in the emphisis being diverted from BB to FB and I'm sure there were rumblings concerning conference realignment back then. Well guess what he did take the leap and he proved many wrong even some who proclaimed to be in his corner. The needle is pointing up and I refuse to bail on him now. Have fun debating the games and the coaching decisions but don't question the hard work,expertise and dedication being put forth by Mick Cronin. My fear is he will get tired of beating his head against the wall and leave for a better program. Don't let this happen. The light is shinning at the end of the tunnel. Many programs are looking for guys who can overcome these kind of obstacles. Get to the games and help him finish the job. His kids play their heart out for the University.
Click to expand...

I was there also, parked on eden for free. I have never wavered from Mick and not sure why you think I am against him. I want him to have more resources to see what he can really do on the same playing field as there are several great coaches in the midwest. He has to recruit against Mick, Crean, Mack, Huggs etc. all around this area. The needle is definitely pointing up and I want more people there. There are always excuses, if he keeps winning those excuses to not show up will go away. Hopefully. The one thing that I think holds him back from winning the city over is he is a pretty quiet laid back guy, not a polarizing character like Crean. His teams definitely are the kind this town likes, hard nosed hard working under-dogs. Hopefully next year we can keep the attendance figures going in the right direction.
 
Patrick Bateman said:
I was there also, parked on eden for free. I have never wavered from Mick and not sure why you think I am against him. I want him to have more resources to see what he can really do on the same playing field as there are several great coaches in the midwest. He has to recruit against Mick, Crean, Mack, Huggs etc. all around this area. The needle is definitely pointing up and I want more people there. There are always excuses, if he keeps winning those excuses to not show up will go away. Hopefully. The one thing that I think holds him back from winning the city over is he is a pretty quiet laid back guy, not a polarizing character like Crean. His teams definitely are the kind this town likes, hard nosed hard working under-dogs. Hopefully next year we can keep the attendance figures going in the right direction.
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Sorry for the confusion. I don't think your agaist MC. Just trying to spread the word that we have something good working here and the more people who attend the games the easier the job becomes.
 
Patrick Bateman said:
It doesn't matter what I think or you think, the recruit would definitely say Cameron
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Way to avoid it. BTW, the answer isn't because of the facility, it's because it's Duke and they offer tradition, a great fan base, HOF coach, etc. Has nothing to do with the facility that they play in.
 
TheLongHaul said:
Way to avoid it. BTW, the answer isn't because of the facility, it's because it's Duke and they offer tradition, a great fan base, HOF coach, etc. Has nothing to do with the facility that they play in.
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I see your point regarding Cameron. If Larry Brown can go to SMU and get the #1 recruit to play yes, it doesn't matter where the team plays. If Phil Jackson became coach at UC, it wouldn't matter, recruits would come.

Ok, what about Fed Ex? Top recruits surely don't go to Memphis b/c of the coach.
 
I think we way overrate our arena in a recruit's decision. Yeah the bench seats in the upper deck suck. I'd venture to bet that no player, much less recruit has ever been up to the rafters to see how uncomfortable and cramped they are. The Shoe is loud and from the court it doesn't look bad. That is what recruits notice. There are many nice, modern amenities to our athletic facilities. Are they the best? No. Are they the worst? No. Recruits come here because they like the coach/the program and they think they can get playing time and win. If they like another coach/program better or think they'll win more and play more at another school they will choose that school. I've never heard a recruit say his decision was based on the arena. We need a new arena because a decent portion of our "fan"base says we need one for them to come to games. More fan support means more revenue and more attention to your program which will do many things, including enhancing recruiting. Rupp Arena is so great because it's UK and fans support UK so the venue rocks. Same with Cameron Indoor. The court is the same dimensions in all these places. You want a recruit to be impressed with our arena fill it up and be loud. Do that and then maybe there will be money to build that new arena that "fans" are clamoriing for.
 
david aka the TYZ said:
I think we way overrate our arena in a recruit's decision. Yeah the bench seats in the upper deck suck. I'd venture to bet that no player, much less recruit has ever been up to the rafters to see how uncomfortable and cramped they are. The Shoe is loud and from the court it doesn't look bad. That is what recruits notice. There are many nice, modern amenities to our athletic facilities. Are they the best? No. Are they the worst? No. Recruits come here because they like the coach/the program and they think they can get playing time and win. If they like another coach/program better or think they'll win more and play more at another school they will choose that school. I've never heard a recruit say his decision was based on the arena. We need a new arena because a decent portion of our "fan"base says we need one for them to come to games. More fan support means more revenue and more attention to your program which will do many things, including enhancing recruiting. Rupp Arena is so great because it's UK and fans support UK so the venue rocks. Same with Cameron Indoor. The court is the same dimensions in all these places. You want a recruit to be impressed with our arena fill it up and be loud. Do that and then maybe there will be money to build that new arena that "fans" are clamoriing for.
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So true.
 

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