@South Florida

[cincrulz11]

Yeah I don't think I'd go out of my way to tout his low TOs but I personally don't care is Evans turns it over twice.

neither do i. i just thought it was another funny comment.


i wish kenpom had a way to filter stats by date. like fangraphs does for baseball.

 

[justinhub2003]

average offensive possession length 17.1. average defensive possession length 17.4.


but it made me laugh because of his entire coaching career. its just funny to hear it from him.

Context is everything.

17.1 is a 1.6 second improvement over last season.

In the off season I said I hoped we could shave off a 2 seconds or so and we almost have. We’re middle of the pack in offensive pace compared to last year which was near the bottom

 

[cincrulz11]

Context is everything.

17.1 is a 1.6 second improvement over last season.

In the off season I said I hoped we could shave off a 2 seconds or so and we almost have. We’re middle of the pack in offensive pace compared to last year which was near the bottom

but you said our overall pace is slow because we force other teams to have long possessions with our defense. its really a combination of both.



and last year our overall length of possession was 18.7. in conference it was 19.1 Our pace so far in conference play this year is 18.8. That 17.1 average is gonna go up after those first 4 games of our season have less and less weight.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

but you said our overall pace is slow because we force other teams to have long possessions with our defense. its really a combination of both.



and last year our overall length of possession was 18.7. in conference it was 19.1 Our pace so far in conference play this year is 18.8. That 17.1 average is gonna go up after those first 4 games of our season have less and less weight.

Would like to see that get a little quicker.

 

[cincrulz11]

Would like to see that get a little quicker.

he just has to trust it and let his guys do their thing. 68 possessions vs smu was the most we've ever had vs them. we are usually around 60 vs them.

 

[cincrulz11]

he just has to trust it and let his guys do their thing. 68 possessions vs smu was the most we've ever had vs them. we are usually around 60 vs them.

of course i guess the flip side to that is smu doesn't usually turn it over 18 times in a game so that likely caused some of their possessions to be a bit shorter than normal.

 

[justinhub2003]

but you said our overall pace is slow because we force other teams to have long possessions with our defense. its really a combination of both.



and last year our overall length of possession was 18.7. in conference it was 19.1 Our pace so far in conference play this year is 18.8. That 17.1 average is gonna go up after those first 4 games of our season have less and less weight.

That temple game was the first game all year we played in the 50's in terms of possessions.

I mean you talk about sample size, 3 games is as small as it gets. We played 2 games in what is our normal overall pace of mid to upper 60's in possessions and one well below it. But Temple was doing every thing they could to slow that game way down. Its what they do.


We pushed the pace against SMU and you can go back and watch the film, we didn't really play stall ball much at all. And thats really all I care about. I want constant motion, and moving with purpose and momentum. I mean if you're going to point out our AAC offensive time of possession, then you have to also point out that our defensive time of possessions has skyrocketed to 19.1 seconds.

If we keep playing stingy defense and play offense like we have all year, Ill be happy. I think the pace were playing at now is just fine, right around the middle of the pack nationally.


The only way we ever get our overall tempo to be top 100 is if we do an all out press all game that is actually trying to generate TO's. Other than that., our defense is working great when we are forcing teams to use a lot of time to find an open look.

 

[cincrulz11]

That temple game was the first game all year we played in the 50's in terms of possessions.

I mean you talk about sample size, 3 games is as small as it gets. We played 2 games in what is our normal overall pace of mid to upper 60's in possessions and one well below it. But Temple was doing every thing they could to slow that game way down. Its what they do.


We pushed the pace against SMU and you can go back and watch the film, we didn't really play stall ball much at all. And thats really all I care about. I want constant motion, and moving with purpose and momentum. I mean if you're going to point out our AAC offensive time of possession, then you have to also point out that our defensive time of possessions has skyrocketed to 19.1 seconds.

If we keep playing stingy defense and play offense like we have all year, Ill be happy. I think the pace were playing at now is just fine, right around the middle of the pack nationally.


The only way we ever get our overall tempo to be top 100 is if we do an all out press all game that is actually trying to generate TO's. Other than that., our defense is working great when we are forcing teams to use a lot of time to find an open look.

and all im saying is that number is going to consistently go up.

our numbers before conference starts and after are always different. this year will not be an exception. i think as fans we all want the same thing, but mick is going to have to trust it.

 

[justinhub2003]

As for Evans;


Since we've already used the 3 AAC games as big enough sample to make a point; Evans has a AAC TO rate of 11%. and for a guy who handles the ball and draws the attention of the defense as much as he does, this is a complete acceptable number and is borderline elite if he can keep it up for the rest of conference play.

Evans is a JR but he has also had to make adjustments and his numbers show that he is.

Also his Assist rate in conference is 28.5 in conference

 

[cincrulz11]

As for Evans;


Since we've already used the 3 AAC games as big enough sample to make a point; Evans has a AAC TO rate of 11%. and for a guy who handles the ball and draws the attention of the defense as much as he does, this is a complete acceptable number and is borderline elite if he can keep it up for the rest of conference play.

Evans is a JR but he has also had to make adjustments and his numbers show that he is.

Also his Assist rate in conference is 28.5 in conference

and he's only going to be a 50% free throw shooter. should probably replace him in late game situations.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

That temple game was the first game all year we played in the 50's in terms of possessions.

I mean you talk about sample size, 3 games is as small as it gets. We played 2 games in what is our normal overall pace of mid to upper 60's in possessions and one well below it. But Temple was doing every thing they could to slow that game way down. Its what they do.


We pushed the pace against SMU and you can go back and watch the film, we didn't really play stall ball much at all. And thats really all I care about. I want constant motion, and moving with purpose and momentum. I mean if you're going to point out our AAC offensive time of possession, then you have to also point out that our defensive time of possessions has skyrocketed to 19.1 seconds.

If we keep playing stingy defense and play offense like we have all year, Ill be happy. I think the pace were playing at now is just fine, right around the middle of the pack nationally.


The only way we ever get our overall tempo to be top 100 is if we do an all out press all game that is actually trying to generate TO's. Other than that., our defense is working great when we are forcing teams to use a lot of time to find an open look.

We can't allow the Temple and UCF type games on the road to be dictated by the opponent. We can't be a willing participant in that type of game. It's the only way we lose.

 

[cincrulz11]

We can't allow the Temple and UCF type games on the road to be dictated by the opponent. We can't be a willing participant in that type of game. It's the only way we lose.

you know we actually had 70 possessions at temple last year. of course we still only scored 56 points in that one.

 

[cincrulz11]

and maybe the review of the temple tape was an aha moment for mick. somebody told me mick talked about pace again last night and said if we're stuck in a rock fight like vs temple anybody can win that game.



lets hope he takes it to heart and lets these guys go.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

and maybe the review of the temple tape was an aha moment for mick. somebody told me mick talked about pace again last night and said if we're stuck in a rock fight like vs temple anybody can win that game.



lets hope he takes it to heart and lets these guys go.

Yeah he did say that.

 

[justinhub2003]

and he's only going to be a 50% free throw shooter. should probably replace him in late game situations.

So you can look at trends on the last 3 games to make a point but no one else can?


Also, Jacobs TO rate in conference play this year is about at the elite level it was for his entire freshman and sophomore seasons. Chances are he moves more toward a number like he has in AAC play. Historical data suggests that.

Evans protects the balll and does it at a high level. That’s a fact

 

[justinhub2003]

We can't allow the Temple and UCF type games on the road to be dictated by the opponent. We can't be a willing participant in that type of game. It's the only way we lose.

Go back and watch how quickly temple defense got back.

I mean, what do you do ? Especially when shots aren’t falling.


Mick said on the radio that UCF presses so they can get their bigs down the floor.

We need to push the pace but it’s fsr easier to slow down a game then to speed it up

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Go back and watch how quickly temple defense got back.

I mean, what do you do ? Especially when shots aren’t falling.


Mick said on the radio that UCF presses so they can get their bigs down the floor.

We need to push the pace but it’s fsr easier to slow down a game then to speed it up

I get that it's harder but most teams manage to score more against Temple than we did. I'd guess they are pretty much all higher possession games too. It can be done. You just have to stay committed to it.

I don't think we should press UCF at all, at least to start the game. They'd be more than happy to take forever to get a shot off on every possession. Pressing would just play into that.

 

[cincrulz11]

So you can look at trends on the last 3 games to make a point but no one else can?


Also, Jacobs TO rate in conference play this year is about at the elite level it was for his entire freshman and sophomore seasons. Chances are he moves more toward a number like he has in AAC play. Historical data suggests that.

Evans protects the balll and does it at a high level. That’s a fact

if his role had stayed the same and he wasn't being asked to take care of the ball more often i would assume his TOrate would go back down to what it has been for his career.


however that isn't the case, his role has been expanded and he has made some very poor decisions making the adjustment.


i dont think a player of his level should have a problem improving his decision making in those situations as we go forward.

 

[sedziobs]

Kenpom's TORate is expected to increase as time with the ball increases. It would be nice to have a measure of how often a player turns it over per amount of time with the ball, but TORate isn't that stat. It simply measures how many times a player commits a turnover compared to how often he shoots.

 

[cincrulz11]

Kenpom's TORate is expected to increase as time with the ball increases. It would be nice to have a measure of how often a player turns it over per amount of time with the ball, but TORate isn't that stat. It simply measures how many times a player commits a turnover compared to how often he shoots.

guys that just spot up shooters are going to have artificially lower rates (kenpom notes this).


its just too hard to be able to track how often a guy has the ball (time wise) vs how many times he turns it over.

percentage of possessions used on turnovers is still an important stat. makes me marvel at guys like jalen brunson.