Successful Program

[TheLivingLegend]

So, in your opinion if a team gets to 5 final fours in 10 years, but sends no one to the NBA they aren't successful?! They would be a really successful college basketball team, they aren't successful at getting kids to the NBA, but that shouldn't matter when talking about the success of a program. Just like, graduation rates don't really matter.

Does this sound familiar to you: I understand that is important to the University, and the athletic department and my boy Whit... But cmon, to me, that has ZERO relevance. I want to WIN basketball games.

All you cared about was the fact that your team WON basketball games, which in the end is what makes a program successful.

Do you have some examples of this??

I see your point, and ill raise you this... Dont you think guys going the NBA helps recruiting??

 

[Kingsley Court]

Do you have some examples of this??

I see your point, and ill raise you this... Dont you think guys going the NBA helps recruiting??

Of course it does, I'm just not going to say you have to send a player to the NBA, or send a player to the lottery of the NBA draft once every 4 years to be considered successful.

 

[Ryno99]

I think it may help you to be successful, but in my mind, the success is not measured on that. Lots of things go into making you successful, all of which do not measure your success.

 

[JasonS]

Guys get drafted way before they should when their team makes a deep tourney run to the final four. Name me one program that has been to multiple Final Fours in the last 10 years that hasn't had at least one NBA draft pick on their team. The two are not mutually exclusive.

 

[ucswais]

Right, its a short list anyway. Pretty sure it would be Duke, Butler, Mich St, Uconn, UNC, UCLA, Kansas, and Florida. Basically the top 8 programs of the decade. You don't get on that list without players and even if you did, your players would instantly become overvalued and drafted.

In a way, its a chicken vs. egg argument, but I agree with Jason on this point. There are plenty of teams turning out NBA players without final fours to show for it. Nobody is getting multiple final fours without NBA players to show for it.

 

[ucswais]

I guess I do care some about grad rates, player conduct, representing the city, etc, but it's a personal opinion and not that interesting to debate.

For results, it’s easier to quantify. I care more about the total season than most. I want to compete for a Big East title every year. Top half 9 of the next 10 years, top 4 6 of the next 10 years, 2 titles. The BET is a priority. I want 2 titles the next 10 years. In the NCAA’s, there are just so many variables. First thing is first, you have to get there every year to give yourself a shot. I will go with 3 sweet 16’s and at least 1 final 4.

Is that a high bar? Probably. I think its possible though especially as we keep improving and frankly the conference is going to get worse before it gets better.

 

[TheLongHaul]

I think it may help you to be successful, but in my mind, the success is not measured on that. Lots of things go into making you successful, all of which do not measure your success.

Exactly. It seems like some aren't grabbing this concept.

 

[TheLivingLegend]

Is it you or TGO who doesn't go to UC?

Neither did

 

[Thegreatone]

I went to msj undergrad. XU grad...

 

[TheLongHaul]

That helps explain why you don't care about graduating players. There is no connection between you and the school outside of a rooting interest in the basketball program. Graduates of the university tend to care more about the off court success of the athletic program because their diplomas are tied to it. Whether some people like to admit it or not the image of sports teams can positively or negatively affect the value of their degree.

 

[TheLivingLegend]

That helps explain why you don't care about graduating players. There is no connection between you and the school outside of a rooting interest in the basketball program. Graduates of the university tend to care more about the off court success of the athletic program because their diplomas are tied to it. Whether some people like to admit it or not the image of sports teams can positively or negatively affect the value of their degree.

No it cant... Thats a weak argument.

If a Business or company wont hire someone because a student athlete dropped out of school, I want zero part of that business.

 

[TheLongHaul]

No it cant... Thats a weak argument.

If a Business or company wont hire someone because a student athlete dropped out of school, I want zero part of that business.

It isn't a weak argument. The image of sports teams reflect on their school. When UC had the renegade image under Huggins all you had to do was talk to people around the country (I did because I traveled a lot) to see what they thought of UC.

I would bet most people here don't think Miami U (Florida, not Oxford) has a good school because their football team has thrown them thru the mud for years. However, they actually have a very good school academic wise.

Either way, you can usually tell who graduated from UC and who didn't. Those that didn't generally couldn't care less about the image of the program.

 

[adrock]

It isn't a weak argument. The image of sports teams reflect on their school. When UC had the renegade image under Huggins all you had to do was talk to people around the country (I did because I traveled a lot) to see what they thought of UC.

I would bet most people here don't think Miami U (Florida, not Oxford) has a good school because their football team has thrown them thru the mud for years. However, they actually have a very good school academic wise.

Either way, you can usually tell who graduated from UC and who didn't. Those that didn't generally couldn't care less about the image of the program.

I like you. You get it.

 

[Kingsley Court]

I would bet most people here don't think Miami U (Florida, not Oxford) has a good school because their football team has thrown them thru the mud for years. However, they actually have a very good school academic wise.

I'm sorry, but that's just about the dumbest thing I've read on here.

 

[adrock]

I'm sorry, but that's just about the dumbest thing I've read on here.

Not to say they should, but do you think a school's sports teams have no bearing on a kid's (or parent's) choice to attend a school, either consciously or subconsciously? Is it coincidental that in the 2 years after going to BCS games freshman applications increased by ~15%? Is it coincidental that many schools see this same kind of jump after football or basketball success (see Davidson after Stephen Curry)?

Don't be naive. The image of a school's athletic program is linked to the university's overall image, whether it should be or not. That's why fans of each team after the brawl this year didn't get what the big deal was, but graduates were horrified.

And TLL, as far as not wanting anything to do with a company that makes hiring decisions based partly on their perception if a school, it's nice to be idealistic until you don't have a job and need one.

 

[TheLongHaul]

I'm sorry, but that's just about the dumbest thing I've read on here.

I wouldn't expect you to have a clue.

 

[Kingsley Court]

I wouldn't expect you to have a clue.

So you think a lot of people here thought that Miami University is a bad school because their of their football team?! Are you freaking kidding me? Maybe I give more credit than I should to sports fans, but I just don't think anyone who is somewhat smart would think a sports team represents the education value of a certain school.

Obviously, you don't think a lot of people separate sports teams from the actual education you get from a school.

 

[adrock]

Maybe I give more credit than I should to sports fans...

There's your problem.