Temple

[cincrulz11]

I should have mentioned this could be a huge factor. We have no reason to play Jenifer on the wing with Evans running point...but we do when Cane is in the game. If this is the reason we are better when Cane is in the game...so be it. We still have the option of clearing out for either Cane or Evans when Cane is in...but we do not clear out for Jenifer at any point in any game.

we are better when cane is in because we're tougher to defend with him in. his ability to penetrate gets us so many wide open shots. even when he's not getting all the way to the rim, the threat of him driving is sucking wings into the paint and we get a lot of super wide open 3s.


he hasn't even been scoring a lot but his 30.3 ARate in the season is very good and its a crazy 36.8 in the small sample of conference games. everybody finds themselves with more space when he's in there.

 

[waterhead]

we are better when cane is in because we're tougher to defend with him in. his ability to penetrate gets us so many wide open shots. even when he's not getting all the way to the rim, the threat of him driving is sucking wings into the paint and we get a lot of super wide open 3s.


he hasn't even been scoring a lot but his 30.3 ARate in the season is very good and its a crazy 36.8 in the small sample of conference games. everybody finds themselves with more space when he's in there.

Hey...I agree. But we do put the ball in Evans hands a lot at the top of the key late in games and that means Cane is on the wing. We do still see us clearing out for both players in late clock situations. We simply don't have that option with Justin...and Jarron doesn't have the ball skills to get it done right now.

Whether we clear out for Cane or Evans...we are getting someone else open if the defense collapses.

 

[cincrulz11]

Hey...I agree. But we do put the ball in Evans hands a lot at the top of the key late in games and that means Cane is on the wing. We do still see us clearing out for both players in late clock situations. We simply don't have that option with Justin...and Jarron doesn't have the ball skills to get it done right now.

Whether we clear out for Cane or Evans...we are getting someone else open if the defense collapses.

yeah we just have more options. cane can still catch on the wing and be a threat to penetrate and dish.



i was surprised a couple weeks ago when mick was talking about late game situations and he said cane was a guy we can use because of his ability to penetrate.



i think the ankle injury really slowed the time frame for his increased minutes. last game might be the first of many.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Nice post. I think we're on the same page on a lot of this. I am also saying that we don't just immediately get better from the jump with Broome...but we are better with him. So maybe it's a slow 5 minutes with Jenifer and a slow 5 minutes of Broome, then we get going with Broome. Might not work this way, but if you shift the 5 Jenifer minutes to another point in the half, you could theoretically get going sooner (talk about junk science). And as you mention, this isn't just about Broome. It can be about getting Evans going sooner too. It is on the coaching to decide how we want to start each game. Going to the post early has been the choice. With Broome, you could have a pick and roll option, or Evans operating. It would be good to mix it up depending on the opponent. Broome as the PG in the first 8-10 seconds of the clock and probing is a key gear for us. I just want more of it tbh.

On the subject of the press, Trevon Scott is a huge asset. He can trap and eat up angles while our quickest guy cuts off the sideline. That's so huge. He's going to continue to make more and more plays as the season goes on. I can feel it. And we're going to have a real shot to have the #1 defense in the country next year. Moore and Williams learning for another year. Cumberland and Evans would be the best wing defenders in the AAC (with Trevor Moore the dog on their heels). Our quick PGs causing stress. And we had a thread about the future frontcourt a couple weeks back, I can't imagine people are all that worried about at least the 5 at this point. Brooks and Nsoseme, plus Scott if need be. That's some good rim protection and mobility at minimum. I'm looking forward to that.

Jake my feeling is we go to the post early because it usually shows us how the other team is going to defend us. Are they doubling or single covering. Who and where is the double coming from. It determines how we are attacking them in many cases.

We are off to slow starts not because of Cane or JJ but because our shooting % in the last 3 games in the first 5 minutes has been terrible. Missing many makeable shots. Coach also likes to have Cane play with some of the reserves because he can score. That is a option that we would not have with JJ. In the last three games Mick's hook has gotten shorter and shorter with JJ and its not because of anything he is doing but rather the other guys are not providing offense. So he is forced to go to Cane sooner. Which eliminates some minutes he can use him with the subs unless he wants to play him a ton of minutes. With how guys are going down across the country I prefer to limit our guys and win the games as we head into the conference schedule. We can not afford a injury and putting guys out there for 35 + is not the best way to help minimize that opportunity. The long and short of it is Mick uses Cane the way he does because it creates flexibility for him. He can use him at multiple spots in many situations. JJ does not give him that. In the games were we have needed him Cane has played the most minutes.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Jake my feeling is we go to the post early because it usually shows us how the other team is going to defend us. Are they doubling or single covering. Who and where is the double coming from. It determines how we are attacking them in many cases.

We are off to slow starts not because of Cane or JJ but because our shooting % in the last 3 games in the first 5 minutes has been terrible. Missing many makeable shots. Coach also likes to have Cane play with some of the reserves because he can score. That is a option that we would not have with JJ. In the last three games Mick's hook has gotten shorter and shorter with JJ and its not because of anything he is doing but rather the other guys are not providing offense. So he is forced to go to Cane sooner. Which eliminates some minutes he can use him with the subs unless he wants to play him a ton of minutes. With how guys are going down across the country I prefer to limit our guys and win the games as we head into the conference schedule. We can not afford a injury and putting guys out there for 35 + is not the best way to help minimize that opportunity. The long and short of it is Mick uses Cane the way he does because it creates flexibility for him. He can use him at multiple spots in many situations. JJ does not give him that. In the games were we have needed him Cane has played the most minutes.

If they do double the post or we are missing easy ones, then shooting jumpshots early as the alternative doesn't seem all that promising. And that is a Jenifer or Broome thing. I don't want to get hung up on it though. Not my decision to make and it really isn't that hard to adjust on the fly and get Broome in there asap if need be. I would like for Broome to win 6th man of the year in the conference. That'd be a nice accomplishment in his first season at this level.

 

[waterhead]

Jake my feeling is we go to the post early because it usually shows us how the other team is going to defend us. Are they doubling or single covering. Who and where is the double coming from. It determines how we are attacking them in many cases.

We are off to slow starts not because of Cane or JJ but because our shooting % in the last 3 games in the first 5 minutes has been terrible. Missing many makeable shots. Coach also likes to have Cane play with some of the reserves because he can score. That is a option that we would not have with JJ. In the last three games Mick's hook has gotten shorter and shorter with JJ and its not because of anything he is doing but rather the other guys are not providing offense. So he is forced to go to Cane sooner. Which eliminates some minutes he can use him with the subs unless he wants to play him a ton of minutes. With how guys are going down across the country I prefer to limit our guys and win the games as we head into the conference schedule. We can not afford a injury and putting guys out there for 35 + is not the best way to help minimize that opportunity. The long and short of it is Mick uses Cane the way he does because it creates flexibility for him. He can use him at multiple spots in many situations. JJ does not give him that. In the games were we have needed him Cane has played the most minutes.

I agree we have not been shooting well in the beginning of games. I also agree we need to protect our studs against injury by limiting their playing time when we get a good lead.

What I am having trouble with is the idea that Cane gives Mick the most flexibility. Why on Earth do we want to keep playing with less flexibility when there is always the option of playing with the more flexible player for 30+ minutes. You would never really need to worry...any more than we do with Evans playing 35 minutes. At that point we are talking about 5 minutes of back up. At some point you have to take them out and someone else has to come in. That will be the less flexible player. Why do we want to start with the less flexible player?

The 6th man thing (IMO) only make sense when you have 5 guys who are very good to start with. Then you can take a truly talented guy (maybe an underclassman) off the bench and sub to strength. If you had only 3 quality starters would you ever keep a guy on the bench to be the 6th man? No. Why is it different if you have 4 quality starters? I don't consider Jenifer to be an above average high major option. He is good...probably average at best though.

 

[Emperor Snapper]

I agree we have not been shooting well in the beginning of games. I also agree we need to protect our studs against injury by limiting their playing time when we get a good lead.

What I am having trouble with is the idea that Cane gives Mick the most flexibility. Why on Earth do we want to keep playing with less flexibility when there is always the option of playing with the more flexible player for 30+ minutes. You would never really need to worry...any more than we do with Evans playing 35 minutes. At that point we are talking about 5 minutes of back up. At some point you have to take them out and someone else has to come in. That will be the less flexible player. Why do we want to start with the less flexible player?

The 6th man thing (IMO) only make sense when you have 5 guys who are very good to start with. Then you can take a truly talented guy (maybe an underclassman) off the bench and sub to strength. If you had only 3 quality starters would you ever keep a guy on the bench to be the 6th man? No. Why is it different if you have 4 quality starters? I don't consider Jenifer to be an above average high major option. He is good...probably average at best though.

I think one thing that doesn't get enough attention is that when we bring in our other bench players, especially the bigs, the available options on offense shrink considerably. The need to have someone on the floor that can create opportunities for them (especially Scott, whose scoring is mostly limited to cuts and transition opportunities) is vital, and so I think it helps to have Broome coming off the bench, where he is more likely to share minutes with them.

 

[waterhead]

I think one thing that doesn't get enough attention is that when we bring in our other bench players, especially the bigs, the available options on offense shrink considerably. The need to have someone on the floor that can create opportunities for them (especially Scott, whose scoring is mostly limited to cuts and transition opportunities) is vital, and so I think it helps to have Broome coming off the bench, where he is more likely to share minutes with them.

How about playing him 35 minutes so you don't have to worry about it? He can play with the bench AND the starters.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I agree we have not been shooting well in the beginning of games. I also agree we need to protect our studs against injury by limiting their playing time when we get a good lead.

What I am having trouble with is the idea that Cane gives Mick the most flexibility. Why on Earth do we want to keep playing with less flexibility when there is always the option of playing with the more flexible player for 30+ minutes. You would never really need to worry...any more than we do with Evans playing 35 minutes. At that point we are talking about 5 minutes of back up. At some point you have to take them out and someone else has to come in. That will be the less flexible player. Why do we want to start with the less flexible player?

The 6th man thing (IMO) only make sense when you have 5 guys who are very good to start with. Then you can take a truly talented guy (maybe an underclassman) off the bench and sub to strength. If you had only 3 quality starters would you ever keep a guy on the bench to be the 6th man? No. Why is it different if you have 4 quality starters? I don't consider Jenifer to be an above average high major option. He is good...probably average at best though.

Because he can play more then one spot. Something JJ can't do. Also just because you run Evans minutes up to 35+. Doesn't make it a preferable plan. In Micks mind we have plenty of scoring with Evans,JC, Kyle and Gary on the floor. He can afford to use Cane off the bench on the wing or PG, to change the pace to facilitate or score. That is flexibility.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

How about playing him 35 minutes so you don't have to worry about it? He can play with the bench AND the starters.

You always have the option of playing him more minutes. He is winning without having to run him that much. And you know what it may just be because he is using him exactly like he does.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

-13.5

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

-13.5

To big for me.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

To big for me.

I'm laying it baby!

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I'm laying it baby!

ill be rooting for ya.

 

[waterhead]

You always have the option of playing him more minutes. He is winning without having to run him that much. And you know what it may just be because he is using him exactly like he does.

I think all of our starters could give us a nice scoring punch off the bench minus Jenifer...

Not sure it's a great reason to start him though

 

[justinhub2003]

I think if we shut down Rose like we did in the first game and us being home, we should cover. But if Rose gets hot and we let him get going, its going to be hard to cover those 12 points.


Temple is shooting 29% from 3 in conference.


I can't for the life of me understand why they are so god aweful on both sides of the ball. On paper they seemed poised for a breakout

 

[Emperor Snapper]

How about playing him 35 minutes so you don't have to worry about it? He can play with the bench AND the starters.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say, without looking it up, that no one has averaged 35 minutes a game during Cronin's tenure, (or the tenure of either of the 2 previous coaches, either) and a lot of those guys had worse options to rotate with.

You are going to have a rotation, and the reality of this team is that the lesser big men are not impact offensive players, and need a lot more help. Developing a rotation that makes it easier to keep a dynamic PG on the floor with them makes a lot of sense.

 

[justinhub2003]

I think asking any PG on this team to play 35 min a game is absolutely absurd.
The way we press and the way we ask our pg to lead our press and then ask them to run the offense and play with pace, it’s just impossible to do on a nightly basis for 35 a night.

If we need cane to play 35 min in a single elimination game then so be it but you guys notice how by the last 6 minutes of the first half, we wear a team down and they start to struggle, well that doesn’t work when we are tired ourselves.

I don’t think there is a cosch in the country that would want to play their better player for 35 a game night in and night out. Rest is good.


35 a game is just way to much to ask from a guy who is defending at this level for the first time in his career.

28-30 is the magic number for me.

I mean depth is an asset. Depth doesn’t always mean building the lead, depth can just come in and maintain it or just not lose it fully.

 

[justinhub2003]

And a tired player picks up bad habits and you don’t want bad habits late in the game. I know personally after the 5 or 6 game of full court pick up games, I found myself making bad passes, and I even alter to my shot drastically when I’m tired.

I know these are elite athletes but fatigue can bring about bad decisions.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I think all of our starters could give us a nice scoring punch off the bench minus Jenifer...

Not sure it's a great reason to start him though

thats why your profession is not coaching.