Tennessee

[justinhub2003]

Eliel better than rap at basketball... Lol.

Nice try.

Better for THIS TEAM

 

[Lefty]

Perhaps hard for you, not for me. Who are either of them going to take minute from? It's not like these sub top100 recruits are going to come in and start dominating. They are program guys and are going to take time. Factor in that they can't play defense and have never played college ball you are expecting way too much.

UC's defensive problem is they have no rim protector. Yes, they are slow on perimeter defense but again, DJ is going to play, KW (his defense sucks) is going to play. Plus, they held UT to 32% from 2, 18% from 3. UT scored because of FT's, a lot of them were very bogus.

I love Saunders BTW. I think he needs more PT, and will probably eventually take it from MAW.

Curious, what has Saunders done to deserve the
props ? He’s quick, can’t shoot from what I’ve
seen. He’ll be ok but for now ????

 

[skyblade]

Better for THIS TEAM

I would absolutely take Eliel back in trade for Rap, probably even in exchange for Vogt. A big who can defend and rebound is quite valuable. But many fans are so sick of Cronin's style, it seems they want the antithesis of it, even if that means wracking up more losses.

For the most part I'm still giving Brannen a pass, but he doesn't seem to understand the level of athleticism required from bigs who play at a high level. Vogt, Sorolla, Rap and probably Lahkin are poor athletes. The recruitment of bigs needs a serious upgrade.

 

[TheLivingLegend]

Tari says hello...

 

[justinhub2003]

I think that’s brannen’s biggest learning curve.

Learning that guys like Vogt & Rap work at the mid major level
But not at the high.

He find out that same lesson with Mikey and the twins. Or they might not even contribute until year 3 or 4

Tari is high major talent though.

 

[TheLongHaul]

Curious, what has Saunders done to deserve the
props ? He’s quick, can’t shoot from what I’ve
seen. He’ll be ok but for now ????

Defends well although still learning. Puts a lot of pressure on the ball. Pushes the pace and has the ability to create easy buckets which this team desperately needs.

 

[justinhub2003]

Defends well although still learning. Puts a lot of pressure on the ball. Pushes the pace and has the ability to create easy buckets which this team desperately needs.

My issue with Saunders is... he speeds the point guard up.. usually that’s a good thing. But right now, he speeds them up only for them to just race down 94 feet with a layup. It’s pressure without consequence

 

[TheLongHaul]

I would absolutely take Eliel back in trade for Rap, probably even in exchange for Vogt. A big who can defend and rebound is quite valuable. But many fans are so sick of Cronin's style, it seems they want the antithesis of it, even if that means wracking up more losses.

For the most part I'm still giving Brannen a pass, but he doesn't seem to understand the level of athleticism required from bigs who play at a high level. Vogt, Sorolla, Rap and probably Lahkin are poor athletes. The recruitment of bigs needs a serious upgrade.

I think that’s brannen’s biggest learning curve.

Learning that guys like Vogt & Rap work at the mid major level
But not at the high.

He find out that same lesson with Mikey and the twins. Or they might not even contribute until year 3 or 4

Tari is high major talent though.

So you think he just missed on Tari in thinking he was the slow unathletic type that you think he likes? Or he took Vogt and Rap because they were the best options available?

It's almost as if you forget he had to quickly put together a team and got a late start because Mick left for UCLA late in the game. He is trying to plug folks in. Just look at his latest recruiting class and virtually all of them are good athletes.

The other option is to take extremely raw but athletic big men who wouldn't get off the bench for a couple years. Diarra is a classic example and he still can't get off the bench. Remember all the big but athletic busts that Mick had? It's going to take a bit of time for Brannen to get the exact look he wants.

 

[TheLongHaul]

My issue with Saunders is... he speeds the point guard up.. usually that’s a good thing. But right now, he speeds them up only for them to just race down 94 feet with a layup. It’s pressure without consequence

IMO the team has played better on both sides of the ball with him in the game.

 

[justinhub2003]

So you think he just missed on Tari in thinking he was the slow unathletic type that you think he likes? Or he took Vogt and Rap because they were the best options available?

It's almost as if you forget he had to quickly put together a team and got a late start because Mick left for UCLA late in the game. He is trying to plug folks in. Just look at his latest recruiting class and virtually all of them are good athletes.

The other option is to take extremely raw but athletic big men who wouldn't get off the bench for a couple years. Diarra is a classic example and he still can't get off the bench. Remember all the big but athletic busts that Mick had? It's going to take a bit of time for Brannen to get the exact look he wants.

Im saying it’s a learning curve.

I mean, do you feel confident about next years team?

I sure as hell don’t. I think it could be the worst UC team in years if we don’t add high level talent

If we had a top 40 class signed for 2021, I’d feel a whole hell of lot better.


It’s hard to see the vision with:
1. The results on the court
2. The non existent 2021 class
3. A mid major support staff top to bottom


I don’t give blind faith to anyone. But I do check for hints of long term progress. Right now, nothing is making me feel like the future is bright.

It’s not that he won’t. It’s that I have zero evidence

 

[skyblade]

So you think he just missed on Tari in thinking he was the slow unathletic type that you think he likes? Or he took Vogt and Rap because they were the best options available?

It's almost as if you forget he had to quickly put together a team and got a late start because Mick left for UCLA late in the game. He is trying to plug folks in. Just look at his latest recruiting class and virtually all of them are good athletes.

The other option is to take extremely raw but athletic big men who wouldn't get off the bench for a couple years. Diarra is a classic example and he still can't get off the bench. Remember all the big but athletic busts that Mick had? It's going to take a bit of time for Brannen to get the exact look he wants.

Tari is great, but at this point he is the exception that proves the rule.

Diarra would be starting if we had a coach with Cronin's mentality. Brannen has shown he cares far more about offense from his bigs than defense. Cronin was the reverse.

Mick generally developed bigs, yeah it took 2/3 years, but the majority of them started quality minutes late in their careers. He did that because big men are the most difficult to recruit - supply is more limited.

Brannen's solution isn't looking any better. Vogt wouldn't start for most teams in the American, Rap looks like a bust, Sorolla was a bust, Lahkin looks like another in the same mold.

Ideally I'd like Brannen to get athletic guys and develop them on both the offensive and defensive end - even if that takes a couple of years. His current route seems to be get guys who are capable on offense, but have a low ceiling in terms of defensive/rebounding ability. With that method it will be hard to ever have a very good defensive team, big men are the most important piece on defense.

 

[waterhead]

I think we all know about the bad because that's what most fans want to talk about. The seniors disappeared, foul trouble, Rap 5 TO's, Dou opts out, decision making, etc etc.

But I saw some good not only for this year but future years. DD is clearly going to be a nice option 1B to Keith 1A (or vice versa) for on demand play making short clock or down the stretch. That is going to come in handy especially in light of the rise of Davenport as a shooter. Those are two developments that will help our offense tremendously. Saunders looked good again in only his 3rd game. Eason continues to grow.

If Vogt can stay in 30 minutes (and Keith)...I think the offense is going to improve this year. I agree with most we are going to need at least one serviceable athletic big in the future.

Right now I would like to see something like this develop

Vogt 30 Rap 10
Eason 30 Davenport 10
Williams 30 Davenport 5 Harvey 5
MAW 20 Harvey 10 Davenport 10
Dejulius 30 Saunders 10

That is an 8 man rotation

 

[waterhead]

I think we should start a thread called "If you had told me"

If you had told me...

Vogt and Keith would be limited to 16 minutes each and combine for 10 pts.

We would only get 7 more pts from MAW and Harvey

Rap would turn it over 5 times and score 2

We would shoot 23 less FT's

The refs would call the game at least in small part to TN favor (if not large part)

Davenport would lead the team in scoring

Dou would opt out for the season


Then I would have said we must have been blown out of the gym. But we were right there with a very decent chance to win in the final minutes. If our returning vets (outside of Davenport) get their heads out of their butts...this team can gel and be pretty damn good. Coach needs to pull the reins in on Rap...both shooting and putting the ball on the ground. It's not good when he does.

 

[waterhead]

If we didn't have Davenport we would be shooting 19% from 3.

DeJulius is our leading rebounder and by miles in assists.


Keith needs to do two big things that I am not sure he is capable of any more. Stop the reach in fouls and assist his teammates. It's been said before "show me your leading assist guy and I will show you your best player". Cumberland was both a scorer and assist guy. Keith needs to put team above stats. The one play (late game) where he dribbled to the free throw line and had two defenders on him and tried to get off a shot....was blocked...then followed with a frustration reach in foul was the epitome of what he should not be doing.

Right now it's Dejulius who is playing this role better

 

[cincrulz11]

I think we should start a thread called "If you had told me"

I think for this season it can simply be


If you had told me KW made no steps forward and wasn't capable of being the guy



that it would be one long season.

If somebody said KW would have an ORTG of under 90 in 3 of 4 games, I might have predicted a 1-3 record.

 

[waterhead]

I also think Dejulius is a much better 3 pt shooter than what we are seeing. He has taken quite a few shots very late clock with defender on him. Some were just desperation heaves. He even had one make called back for a travel which generally doesn't get called. Get him some open looks and I think he will make at least 35% of those but that will take the help of others. He doesn't see many set shots off the feed. Williams can make everyone better...DD, MAW, etc by getting them some good kickout looks. Set shots on or near the line.

 

[waterhead]

I think for this season it can simply be


If you had told me KW made no steps forward and wasn't capable of being the guy



that it would be one long season.

If somebody said KW would have an ORTG of under 90 in 3 of 4 games, I might have predicted a 1-3 record.

Usage rate is way to high for him. Even Cumberland with too high a usage rate hurt his shot %...but at least he assisted. I would like to see DD and Keith get about 25% usage rate. Keith is at 32 and DD at 21.

 

[waterhead]

Usage rate is way to high for him. Even Cumberland with too high a usage rate hurt his shot %...but at least he assisted. I would like to see DD and Keith get about 25% usage rate. Keith is at 32 and DD at 21.

I would add the same for Rap. He is at 20 in usage but has the lowest assist rate per 40 minutes on the team...by far. That simply cannot happen with him. He basically takes all shots he can or turns it over in the process.

 

[cincrulz11]

Usage rate is way to high for him. Even Cumberland with too high a usage rate hurt his shot %...but at least he assisted. I would like to see DD and Keith get about 25% usage rate. Keith is at 32 and DD at 21.

your usage rate is going to be high when you refuse to make the right play and shoot instead.


cumberland would always make the correct basketball play. keith tries to get his no matter the situation. and he doesn't have the talent to get his any time he wants.

 

[waterhead]

your usage rate is going to be high when you refuse to make the right play and shoot instead.


cumberland would always make the correct basketball play. keith tries to get his no matter the situation. and he doesn't have the talent to get his any time he wants.

I agree. I would like to see Keith double his assist numbers and half his foul numbers in short order. And I think Brannen needs to lead that charge.

Players don't normally decide to dial things back after looking at metrics. The coach needs to insert himself. Perhaps not to the level of Cronin and perhaps not the level of Brannen but some happy medium that lets them play with flow but still consequences of bench for too many of the same mistakes. For Cronin that could be one mistake if it was on his pet peeve list. For Brannen it can't be 5 mistakes. It has to be somewhere in that 2-3 range. 1 time...okay. 2 times...you better fix that. 3 times...you're on the bench for a while.

Also Cronin could sit a guy a long time after a mistake. It is okay to take a player out and coach them on what they did wrong...and put them back in and say don't do that again. Keith needs to start getting pulled after a silly reach in early in the game. Coach needs to say...you have 1 silly foul way too early so you have to sit so you don't get a 2nd silly foul right away. Same with always taking shots...he needs to learn when he should be passing out of bad situations...especially with time on the clock to reset.